Friend of a Friend (FOAF) IRC Chat Logs for 2003-07-05

01:45:25 <JibberJim> The japanese connected foaf universe is aroung the 200 mark, we need to find a connection across the world.

01:47:07 <nym> how did you find that out?

01:48:11 <JibberJim> basically just starting with a random japanese person (actually someone called kentaro who seems to be running an instance of the w3 validator) and clicking all the people out in foafnaut

01:58:39 <JibberJim> FOAF "It's about the most non-standard standard I've ever run into.

01:58:59 <JibberJim> I think that's a good tagline for FOAF, and I think I'll adopt for it ever more...

01:59:19 <JibberJim> (quote's from Marc Canter btw)

07:43:53 <kota> > JibberJim> The japanese connected foaf universe is aroung the 200 mark,

07:44:02 <kota> is that right?

08:42:11 <JibberJim> kota, yes I think so.

08:42:24 <kota> wow

08:42:46 <kota> actually, i've been counting how many people have their foaf

08:43:00 <JibberJim> I don't know how many people that is who've created their own, compared to people they foaf:know, who don't have their own files.

08:43:29 <kota> yeah, many people do not have their own foaf

08:45:57 <JibberJim> It's still picked up very quickly.

08:46:31 <kota> hmm

08:50:39 <kota> counting now

08:53:01 <JibberJim> if you've got a list could you give it to me to check against the ones I find with the foafnaut scutter, you can never tell if you're getting them all!

09:01:27 <kota> ok

09:47:44 <kota> following links from each person's foaf, there are 32 japanese people who has their own foaf

09:50:47 * JibberJim tries to think of some way of calculating this from the scutters results but I can't.

10:38:00 <kota> i got nine more people

10:38:06 <kota> 41 people

10:43:04 <JibberJim> ephidrina?

10:43:57 <JibberJim> Do you have the urls kota?

10:45:53 <kota> no, still counting

10:46:18 <kota> i wonder if i can put the list on the web

10:46:30 <JibberJim> If you could create a plan file, that would really help us scutter people.

10:46:38 <JibberJim> just create some RDF like http://jibbering.com/plan.rdf

10:46:40 <kota> hmm

10:48:01 <kota> ok, i'll make it, but please let me talk w/ some of those people

10:48:27 <JibberJim> Sure, only include people who you're sure are happy to be included.

10:51:25 <JibberJim> does http://jibbering.com/foaf/foafnaut.templates.svg?sha1=ef7a92aa89ffb698c462e2be75dbc84fde6fb1c1 lock up the browser for anyone else just after opening a few people?

10:52:19 <kota> oh,,, i cannot see the page

10:52:34 <kota> no, i can

10:52:37 <kota> sorry

10:53:14 <kota> oh, wait a sec

10:53:27 <kota> oh, shit. IE is frozen,,, haha...

10:53:47 <JibberJim> yes, that's what happened to me to, so it's not just me, it is my code!

10:54:27 <kota> hmm

13:44:06 * danbri re-appears

13:44:07 <danbri> hi all

13:55:12 <edd> heyas

14:42:49 * danbri catching up w/ rdfweb-dev etc...

14:47:47 <danbri> > .............I suggest/request a formal FOAF.org get set up.

14:47:49 <danbri> arrgh

14:48:06 <danbri> Why keep going on about a domain name that some unknown party owns. Just creates FUD...

14:48:25 * danbri thinks foafnews.org is the best for these purposes he currently has registered...

14:48:38 <JibberJim> Have you got the expiry date in your calendar?

14:48:43 <danbri> 2004

14:48:47 <JibberJim> march

14:58:00 * edd finishes up a devleoperWorks article on Redland's contexts

14:58:40 <danbri> edd++

15:02:18 * danbri crosses fingers, rebuilds Firebird: cd /usr/local/firebird/src/mozilla; make -f client.mk checkout; gmake -f client.mk build

15:02:34 <edd> yeek. why not just use the debian package?

15:02:48 <danbri> Is there a Debian nightly?

15:03:04 <edd> no. but the normal one just seems to work

15:03:05 * danbri wants to feel the bleeding edge pain...

15:03:07 <edd> any reason why need nightly?

15:03:25 <danbri> I forget, there was a reason though. Hmm.

15:03:41 <edd> lol

15:03:45 <danbri> I think I wanted better than the last stable bundle, but when I tried the nightly binaries, they were built in ugly font mode.

15:04:13 <danbri> so I built my own with smooth fonts, and as it was pretty easy to do, I've just stayed with that, occasionally rebuilding

15:04:46 <danbri> only real complaint is somehow Japanese (and likely other) fonts not working for me. haven't investigated that much.

15:04:46 * edd sees v. nice fonts in unstable

15:04:53 <edd> but if you're running unstable...

15:04:58 * edd has all fonts working nicely, but only in sid

15:05:22 <danbri> The following NEW packages will be installed:

15:05:22 <danbri> mozilla-firebird

15:05:24 <danbri> ;)

15:05:25 <JibberJim> have you configured an appropriate font in the UNICODE/japanese setting in the config?

15:05:48 <danbri> No...

15:05:55 <danbri> is that a compile time or runtime thing?

15:06:01 <JibberJim> runtime.

15:06:20 <danbri> do you have an example or pointer for one that works?

15:06:55 <JibberJim> nah...

15:07:14 <danbri> is it a tweak to prefs.js? Or via the UI?

15:07:24 <JibberJim> I don't use mozilla... but I'm pretty sure it's in the UI

15:09:43 * danbri has same font issues with the Debian-installed version...

15:10:10 <danbri> the Firbird options panel for fonts has 'unicode' and 'japanese' sections but not clear what to do there. rummaging.

15:14:28 <danbri> anyone know what Marc Cantor is on about re multi-level foafs?

15:14:30 <danbri> Is it just...

15:14:49 <danbri> <Person><knows><Person><knows><Person>... nesting?

15:14:55 <JibberJim> that's what I think.

15:15:43 * danbri double-checks typepad usage (Ben Trott sent me a sample)

15:16:15 <danbri> they have foaf:depiction, should really be foaf:img instead, since depictions can get drowned out by bulk (photo archives etc).

15:16:41 <edd> indeed.

15:25:05 * danbri mails Ben

15:26:25 <danbri> no foafbot today?

15:26:35 <edd> oh, i reset my box

15:26:38 <edd> i should bring him back

15:27:11 * edd wonders what the state of mono for powerpc is

15:27:25 <edd> i suspect, working but no JIT

15:27:48 <danbri> is mono the dotgnu one or the other?

15:27:58 <edd> the ximian one

15:28:24 <danbri> Do you know if there are any machine interfaces to eBay's karma/rating data?

15:28:25 <JibberJim> More Rocky - http://jibbering.com/piccies/2003/SLR/Medium/04-2/0010__~1.JPG

15:28:44 <danbri> Is it jealously guarded? Or would it benefit them to have knowledge of ebay ratings flow around the web?

15:29:16 <danbri> Nice photo

15:29:39 * JibberJim has some photos now to compare his SLR and digital on identical subjects...

15:30:38 * danbri decides to work on foafnews.org as a user-oriented site... leave tech stuff at rdfweb.org

15:31:20 <danbri> I also need to find out about leaving domain names in wills...

15:31:31 <danbri> and otherwise making xmlns.com more future-proof...

15:31:45 <danbri> bbiabv

16:41:28 <edd> hmph, we're really going to need a p2p way of sharing triplestores

16:42:08 <JibberJim>http://jibbering.com/foaf/dump/

16:42:20 <edd> that's a 404

16:42:23 <JibberJim>http://jibbering.com/foaf/dumps/

16:43:04 <JibberJim> but yes I think we do.

16:45:04 * nik_ looks around for Matt Bidulph

16:45:12 <edd> nik_: he's at the cinema right now :)

16:45:37 * JibberJim thinks Edd and mattb know too much about each other...

16:45:49 <nik_> edd: Ah. Cheers. Don't suppose you know if his code for picdiary is open source do you?

16:46:02 <edd> it's unreleased as of now

16:46:07 <nik_> Links to the source from picdiary.com are conspicuous by their absence

16:46:08 <edd> he's quite amenable to sharing, though

16:46:57 <JibberJim> aren't bits of it published in hackdiary?

16:47:06 <danbri> often just documenting the ideas / approach is more useful than sharing the src filetree...

16:48:12 <dajobe> surely the edutella people have done that already - p2p with triplestores

16:48:19 <edd> it's all just a bunch of RSS files anyway

16:48:21 <nik_> danbri: Right. And I've found bits of documentation in presentation slides he's made available, but it's mainly just confirmed my own thoughts.

16:49:17 <edd> dajobe: i'm basically wanting a way to get foafbots on everyone's desktop without the either cost of centralisation or of everyone having to do their own indexing

16:50:48 <JibberJim> How about a dump to start them off, and then update feeds they can subscribe to, either of the raw triples, or just as plan files for them to go find.

16:50:58 <dajobe> put foafbot-type stuff in openldap?

16:51:44 <JibberJim> http://jibbering.com/foaf/recent.1 for example if foafnaut's recent files.

16:53:53 <danbri> http://rdfweb.org/people/danbri/rdfweb/allfactoids.P is a Sep 2001 dump from the original scutter...

16:53:59 <danbri> ...I used to dump data as prolog

16:54:05 <danbri> should be redone with provenance...

16:54:29 <JibberJim> how important do people think having foafnaut use RDF as it's input format?

16:54:35 <danbri> quite

16:54:47 * JibberJim is finding it too slow...

16:54:48 <danbri> marketing largely, for now

16:54:59 <danbri> isn't a lot of the latency the db lookup?

16:55:02 * danbri bbiab

16:55:18 <JibberJim> lots of it is in the parsing, I can kill the database lookup by turning caching back on.

16:55:21 <danbri> i found static file-baed foafnaut much faster...

16:55:43 <JibberJim> - http://www.crockford.com/JSON/index.html would be lots faster...

16:59:11 <danbri> what about N3?

16:59:18 <danbri> or ntriples?

16:59:37 <JibberJim> I'd still need a parser, the reason the above is faster is that it uses js's built in parser...

17:00:08 <JibberJim> but I'll stick with RDF...

17:00:16 <danbri> ASV should acquire an rdf parser...

17:00:33 <danbri> ta

17:00:35 * JibberJim turns caching back on.

17:00:49 <danbri> guess we could send .js from server instead

17:01:29 <JibberJim> that was my suggestion yeah

17:02:45 <danbri> ah right, i didn't read the json page properly

17:03:27 <JibberJim> json is basically a write up saying javascript and python object syntax should be used as an interchange format.

17:03:40 * danbri sees that now

17:03:49 <danbri> hm reminds me of some other format that was doing the rounds

17:04:08 <danbri> a text-based object dump syntax, kinda like soap encoding but simpler

17:04:13 <danbri> it had an 'a' in the name. probably.

17:04:58 <danbri> http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,59518,00.html/wn_ascii

17:05:03 <danbri> ...flash mob craze grows. allegedly.

17:05:54 <nik_> Perl and RSS... would XML::RSS be the best module to use? Anyone recommend anything different (or a more apropos place to ask :-) )

17:06:21 <danbri> XML::RSS should do the job

17:06:35 <danbri> I've heard a few grumbles but for most purposes should be fine

17:07:08 <nik_> danbri: Thanks

17:08:44 <danbri> if you're just consuming rss 1.0 feeds, any RDF parser would do the job...

17:08:57 <danbri> but there are lots of rss variants around (sadly...)

17:17:14 <JibberJim> anyone know how to automate a mysql dump without having the password laying about in plaintext?

17:29:41 <danbri> http://white.sakura.ne.jp/~piro/w3cg/_img/w3cg_b-style.gif ---tweaked--> http://rdfweb.org/images/foafgirl2.png

17:31:03 <JibberJim> put that through the raster-svg converter, probably come out pretty good

17:35:59 <danbri> which raster-svg thingy?

17:36:16 * danbri remembers finding a vectoriser (some french student?), but did it output svg?

17:36:29 <JibberJim> yeah

17:36:32 <JibberJim> cr2v

17:36:47 <JibberJim> there's a commercial version now too.

17:36:52 <danbri> I figure if the w3c-girl site can make it free and easy with w3c's logo, they're fair game to be borrowed for foaf logos

17:37:12 <danbri> also tried http://rdfweb.org/images/foafgirl.png but didn't know how to slant text in Gimp

17:37:29 <JibberJim> there's a sourceforge project too somewhere/

17:37:47 <danbri> windows only?

17:38:18 <danbri> appears to behttp://www.celinea.com/#cr2v

17:39:18 <JibberJim>http://autotrace.sourceforge.net/

17:40:40 <nik_> Can RSS <item> elements have grandchildren? E.g., <item><exif:keywords><exif:keyword name="Model">Dimage 7i</exif:keyword>...</exif:keywords>...</item> ?

17:40:52 <nik_> The spec doesn't seem to disallow it...

17:43:53 * danbri does apt-get install autotrace

17:50:41 <danbri> -rw-r--r-- 1 danbri danbri 26042 Jul 5 18:21 foafgirl2.png

17:50:41 <danbri> -rw-r--r-- 1 danbri danbri 999224 Jul 5 18:49 foafgirl2.svg

17:50:48 <danbri> from autotrace --output-format svg foafgirl2.png > foafgirl2.svg

17:51:35 <JibberJim> good to see it kept small, how much does gzip do on it?

17:51:46 <danbri> what's the convention for gzip'd svg suffix? svgz... hang on

17:51:54 <JibberJim> svgz yeah

17:52:06 * JibberJim doesn't know why .svg.gz

17:52:20 <danbri> -rw-r--r-- 1 danbri danbri 156112 Jul 5 18:49 foafgirl2.svg.gz

17:52:34 <danbri> still bigger, but I didn't try any optimisations or tweaks

17:54:13 <danbri>http://rdfweb.org/images/foafgirl2.svgz

18:00:12 <nym> hey danbri

18:00:16 <nym> hey JibberJim

18:00:20 <danbri> nym! hi

18:00:25 <nym> how are you

18:00:38 <danbri> good thanks, had a busy week, catching up with everything now...

18:00:46 <danbri> & y'self?

18:00:57 <nym> busy, but happy

18:01:05 <danbri> good combo

18:01:12 <nym> heh

18:01:40 <nym> i'm trying to get feedback on http://igargoyle.com/bmfoaf/ .. have i shown it to you yet?

18:02:37 <danbri> I think I found it via feedster search on 'foaf', which i how i keep up with things lately

18:02:42 <danbri> didn't have time to play much yet

18:02:43 <nym> hehe

18:02:55 <nym> do a search for foafster

18:03:08 <danbri> where?

18:03:13 <nym> google

18:03:24 <nym> somehow i got the #1 spot

18:03:35 <nym> for my bmfoaf article on playainfo

18:03:41 <danbri> ah right

18:04:02 * danbri has 'foafster' domain in his back pocket for possible foaf/p2p use

18:04:03 <nym> i was just surprised

18:04:07 <danbri> such a domain hoarder :/

18:04:09 <nym> oh really?

18:04:12 <nym> haha

18:04:23 <danbri> More in the napster vein than friendster

18:04:26 <nym> i don't domain hog

18:04:30 <nym> it's too expensive

18:05:07 <nym> i lost one domain to netster though.. that was annoying

18:05:10 <danbri> I don't buy that many, but I've long had an interest in doing rdf/p2p stuff so it was a reasonable project to anticipate

18:05:22 <nym> foaf is such a bad term imo

18:05:32 <JibberJim> hmm netcraft only has 44 sites with foaf in :-(

18:05:40 <danbri> Bad in which way? The original FOAF thing was called 'rdfwebring', so I bought 'semanticwebring'...

18:05:43 <nym> tav and i were talking about changing the suffix to .nym

18:05:44 <danbri> both a bit of a mouthful

18:06:00 <nym> but then i'd have my foaf identity be nym.nym

18:06:10 <JibberJim> have you got foafoaf.* ?

18:06:16 <danbri> suffix isn't mandatory

18:06:25 <danbri> no, have only used foafoaf for irc nicks, bots etc

18:06:32 <nym> no, i just as easily could do nym.rdf

18:06:42 <nym> i don't know what foafoaf is

18:07:04 <danbri> it isn't really anything, just sounds funny

18:07:13 <danbri> the irc2wiki bot is called 'oaf'

18:07:17 <JibberJim> foafbot, whois Lucas Gonze

18:07:34 * JibberJim talks to himself...

18:07:36 <nym> oh, tav is going to embed foafbot into our resident bot, xena

18:07:44 <JibberJim> anyway he's got foafwhore.com

18:07:53 <danbri> heheh

18:07:57 <nym> heh

18:08:12 <danbri> Lucas is on the FoRK list, Rohit posted about foaf a while back and I think there was a foaf whoring thread

18:09:03 <nym> do you guys think the term 'FOAF' is very explanatory to non foafgeeks?

18:09:05 <JibberJim> foafhost looks unrelated - Brett Singer has that.

18:09:33 <JibberJim> it's in dictionary.com ...

18:09:34 <danbri> it is more explanatory than HTML

18:09:41 <nym> haha

18:09:44 <danbri> and our use is consistent with established internet practice

18:09:58 <nym> but non geeks hate the term HTML too

18:09:59 <danbri> alt.drugs, alt.folklore.urban etc foaf stories

18:10:05 <nym> it is consistant

18:10:08 <nym> that's true

18:10:15 <danbri> they'll only see the services built from it, as with HTML

18:10:22 <nym> yeah

18:10:24 <nym> true

18:10:39 <danbri> people might get fed up with everything being called 'foaf*' after a while

18:10:58 <nym> so..

18:10:58 <JibberJim> why don't you have anything at danbri.com ?

18:11:07 <nym> i introduced a few things in my bmfoaf

18:11:27 * danbri noticed, seemed useful things to explore

18:11:31 <nym> gender, contact:homeNear, contact:bmHomeNear, and contact:lastKnownLocation

18:11:36 <danbri> i didn't have a look yet at how you help folks fill the forms out

18:11:41 <danbri> gender: i was wondering about that today

18:11:43 <danbri> vs 'sex'

18:11:59 <danbri> whether to have controlled values...

18:12:03 * JibberJim would still like nearestAirport - or airportYouFlewHere from or something.

18:12:29 <danbri> 'nearestAirport' was always a bad name... as it means the property can be falsified when a nearer airport is built

18:12:31 <nym> JibberJim: well nearestAirport is neat, but i don't like the extreme fuzzyness

18:12:58 <nym> JibberJim: as stated before, i think something like nearestStarbucks or nearestPostOffice would be better

18:13:12 <danbri> are there starbucks in japan?

18:13:19 <nym> i was joking

18:13:21 <JibberJim> hmm, not many starbucks near airport Jim.

18:13:24 <danbri> :)

18:14:03 <JibberJim> but it's good I think, if someone books a ticket into LHR then they knew I was close to LHR, whatever they knew about the location of Surbiton.

18:14:04 <nym> but you get my point, there are a lot less airports than lets say, post offices

18:14:21 <JibberJim> but people regularly travel through airports, and tend to know where they are.

18:14:28 <danbri> no .jp foafs in http://www.jibbering.com/2002/8/foaf-people-map.svg

18:14:41 <nym> well if i ask for homeNear, can't I figure out what the nearest airport is automagically?

18:15:23 <danbri> I wonder if zoyd would help with a foaf-a-matic indian translation? http://www.jibbering.com/foaf/foafnaut.svg?sha1=a9f8967fedcdcf5071c98b9a753b38178e28f1ce

18:15:27 <nym> and i can determine homeNear by a text input like "Pasadena, CA"

18:15:35 <danbri> Oh btw, I started altering the wiki CSS to make it more consistent with rest of rdfweb/foaf site

18:15:37 <danbri> a bit...

18:15:39 <danbri> gotta go...

18:15:44 <nym> bye!

18:16:04 * nym considers publishing a foaf.rdf

18:16:45 <nym> JibberJim: i love foafnaut, but it doesn't allow you to zoom very far

18:17:38 <nym> JibberJim: and why do so many people have pictures that look like they're cut out?

18:17:47 <danbri> they _are_ cut out...

18:18:14 <danbri> cf http://www.jibbering.com/svg/AnnotateImage.html

18:18:44 <JibberJim> how do you mean by zoom?

18:19:00 <danbri> preceded by http://www.w3.org/2001/08/rdfweb/svg-foaf.html experiments

18:19:00 <nym> like, svg allows you to zoom right?

18:19:20 <JibberJim> yeah

18:19:22 <danbri> basically we're doing next-generation imagemaps and using them as metadata for digital images

18:19:50 <danbri> also http://www.w3.org/2001/08/rdfweb/foafwho/imagemap/ converts old style imagemaps to rdf+svg with xslt...

18:19:51 <nym> JibberJim: svg is cool basically, but i'd prefer a mapserver that allows you to zoom in to the street level

18:20:10 <JibberJim> street level in foafnaut?

18:20:13 <JibberJim> or do you mean the map?

18:20:21 <danbri> the two could be more integrated...

18:20:27 <danbri> in theory :)

18:20:40 <JibberJim> be quiet, I've got enough to do...

18:20:43 <danbri> jibberjim.workload.add('...' ;)

18:20:44 <nym> street level in the map

18:21:07 <nym> jiberjim.workload.add(nym.workload)

18:21:49 <nym> well, i'll be plotting foaf's on MapServer anywyas

18:21:53 <KevinMarks> KevinMarks is now known as KevinMarksAtPW

18:21:57 <JibberJim> Oh yeah, I know that's crap, and if I can ever find out how to get grass to convert my sat-images into pictures I can layer over.

18:22:12 <JibberJim> then I'll do it, but at the moment I can't :-(

18:22:29 <nym> sure

18:22:53 <nym> well as i said, i'm going to be setting up a mapserver that will index stuff, including foaf

18:23:34 <nym> one mapserver, many geoitems

18:23:35 <JibberJim> that'd be good!

18:24:07 <nym> yeah, i don't know if i'm going to include non bmfoaf's in it pre-bm though

18:25:55 <nym> anselm is sponsoring the server btw, he's a really nice guy

18:26:04 <nym> his wish system will be really cool too

18:35:05 <nym> JibberJim: what's your email?

18:35:15 <JibberJim> jim@jibbering.com

18:35:47 <nym> okay, my foaf is ready

18:37:50 <nym> JibberJim: please add me to your crawler.... http://nym.igargoyle.com/foaf.rdf

18:37:55 <nym>http://nym.igargoyle.com/foaf.rdf

18:38:08 <JibberJim>http://jibbering.com/foaf/update.html

18:38:12 <nym> thanks

18:38:33 <nym> neat

18:38:40 <danbri> can you add yourself to http://rdfweb.org/topic/FOAFBulletinBoard too, nym?

18:38:45 <nym> sure thing!

18:38:52 <nym> i have some odd metadata mind you

18:38:59 <nym> but support what you can

18:39:28 <nym> i'm using gender, bio:olb, bio:height, bio:weight, and bio:interests

18:39:39 <danbri> your foaf mentions me and jim, but doesn't wrap them in a foaf:knows

18:39:55 <nym> oh

18:39:57 <nym> ok

18:40:04 <danbri> cf http://www.w3.org/2001/10/stripes/ re RDF's so-called striped syntax...

18:40:07 <nym> i didn't change the way foafnaut worked in that respect

18:40:20 <danbri> each XML element stands for a thing, or a relationship. you have to alternate things and their relationships...

18:40:28 <nym> sure

18:41:06 <nym> JibberJim:

18:41:06 <nym> ERROR:

18:41:07 <nym> rdfdump: Error - URI http://nym.igargoyle.com/foaf.rdf:28 - property element Person has multiple object node elements, skipping.

18:42:56 <JibberJim> check the rdf with the validator http://www.w3.org/rdf/validator/

18:43:35 <nym> will do

18:45:21 <nym> JibberJim: your foafamatic has problems

18:45:31 <nym> which is why my bmfoafamatic has problems

18:46:02 <nym> it generates a nonfatal error, and has the same problems with foaf:knows

18:46:06 <JibberJim> use Leighs foaf-a-matic not mine as a start!

18:48:01 <nym> haha

18:48:09 <nym> my mistake i guess!

18:48:28 * nym assumed that JibberJim's code was gold

18:48:59 * nym goes back to the drawing board

18:49:54 <JibberJim> I can fix the bmfoaf one if you like.

18:50:03 <JibberJim> if you'll need to make a lot of changes otherwise

18:50:18 <nym> no, i'll take care of it

18:51:04 <nym> i was getting annoyed at the errors anyways, better that i start from leigh's unless your foafamatic does something special

18:51:38 <JibberJim> nope

18:51:43 <nym> ok

18:51:54 <nym> i want to extend foafamatic to upload too

19:14:17 <KevinMarksAtPW> KevinMarksAtPW is now known as KevinMarksEating

19:16:20 <nym> nym is now known as KevinymBacon

19:19:33 <JibberJim> How are the different backends to foafnaut going?

19:19:45 <JibberJim> my DB's corrupt again by the sound of things.

19:22:19 <KevinMarksEating> KevinMarksEating is now known as KevinMarks

21:47:24 <KevinMarks> KevinMarks is now known as KevinMarksSwims

22:21:36 <KevinymBacon> KevinymBacon is now known as nym

23:28:35 <kota> hahaha, nearestStarbucks

23:29:09 <JibberJim> Is there any reason why japanese foaf doesn't use nearestAirport kota?

23:31:18 <danbri> kota?

23:31:30 <kota> hmm

23:31:37 <kota> i don't know

23:32:07 <danbri> ah, hi, i didn't realise 'kota' was someone's IRC nick... was trying to understand Jim's comment!

23:33:18 <kota> but many japanese foafers refer to masaka's document http://www.kanzaki.com/docs/sw/foaf.html

23:33:34 <kota> and it does not say anything about nearestAirport

23:33:36 <danbri> http://kanzaki.com/docs/sw/foaf.html does not mention nearest airpoint... perhaps it could be updated?

23:33:43 <kota> that's why i think

23:33:44 <danbri> yes, what you said! :)

23:34:08 <nym> kota: can you also mention contact:homeNear if you mention contact:nearestAirport ?

23:34:14 <kota> asking masaka is the best way

23:34:27 <nym> ok

23:34:35 <danbri> nym, does 'contact:homeNear' actually exist?

23:34:45 <nym> danbri: in my world ;)

23:34:50 <kota> haha

23:34:52 <nym> danbri: i haven't documented it yet

23:34:56 <danbri> ...contact is a w3.org namespace somewhere, right?

23:35:11 <danbri> I mean, contact: is a namespace Dan Connolly made up at w3.org...

23:35:15 <nym> yes, i'm a namespace criminal

23:35:19 <danbri> you probably shouldn't advertise things in his namespace

23:35:25 <danbri> w/ foaf i'm a bit more tolerant...

23:35:25 <nym> lock me up in w3 jail

23:35:49 <danbri> i'm happy seeing foaf:blah experiments, and the ones that work may get properly included in the spec

23:35:49 <nym> well, i'll talk to him soon

23:36:02 <danbri> so maybe foaf:homeNear

23:36:25 <nym> sure

23:36:41 <nym> i'll switch over

23:37:04 <iwai> danbri: Japanese people don't usually use a airplain on a daily basis.

23:37:17 <kota> or you can make your own namespace like nym:homeNear :)

23:37:32 <nym> kota: i don't want to define more namespaces really

23:37:35 <JibberJim> Neither do we iwai! it's just a way of saying where you live, without giving too much information if you want to be private.

23:37:38 <danbri> english people neither... we just use 'nearest airport' as a convenient way of talking about regions, without being too precise

23:37:55 <danbri> since airports have well-defined identification codes

23:38:04 <kota> hmm

23:38:08 <nym> yeah, but nearestAirport is a really inprecise way of saying where you live

23:38:09 <danbri> and location info etc easily available

23:38:20 <danbri> that is for many people a feature, not a bug.

23:38:26 <nym> homeNear is supposed to be either almost exact, or kinda fuzzy

23:38:35 <kota> what about making foaf:location?

23:38:39 <danbri> foaf data is very easily merged; it can be scary to have all this info about you integrated...

23:38:48 <JibberJim> there's a geo:location kota which people use.

23:38:52 <danbri> for locations, i did some work in a different namespace, lat/long/alt

23:38:54 <kota> oh, i see

23:39:01 <nym> JibberJim: url?

23:39:02 <danbri> http://esw.w3.org/topic/GeoInfo has pointers...

23:39:04 <JibberJim> but how many people really know what lat/long they are?

23:39:20 <danbri> also http://esw.w3.org/topic/GeoOnion is an interesting idea, not finished yet...

23:39:29 <iwai> (I live in Japan.

23:39:46 <danbri> properties like 'within1000M of' which relate entities to exact geo points in lat/long/alt space

23:40:41 <danbri> iwai, is most of the Japanese coding relating to FOAF done using XSLT?

23:40:50 <danbri> (not Perl, Python, Ruby, Java, ...?)

23:40:57 <kota> phone numbers might explain the location

23:41:04 <kota> yeah

23:41:33 <danbri> kota, are you in japan too?

23:41:58 <kota> no, i'm now livin in Seattle, but i'm japanese

23:42:03 * danbri nods

23:42:36 <danbri> I was wondering earlier whether we need more I18N code, so that when a text string is known to be Japanese, it should be printed right-to-left...

23:42:40 <danbri> in foafnaut etc...

23:42:49 <nym> i think i'm turning japanese now i think i'm....

23:42:50 * danbri pretty ignorant of i18n issues, but learning slowly...

23:42:59 <KevinMarksSwims> KevinMarksSwims is now known as KevinMarks

23:43:01 * JibberJim is in Vancouver next week, and then in the neighbourhood for another month, is SEA worth a visit?

23:43:15 <danbri> Jim, is that for the svg conference?

23:43:19 <JibberJim> yeah

23:43:25 <JibberJim> I fly on thursday

23:43:33 <kota> those who have their foaf are interested in semantic web

23:44:13 <kota> they are using XHTML and designing websites using CSS

23:44:37 <kota> some of them use XML to write their weblogs

23:45:00 <kota> and later they use XSLT to transform into HTML format

23:45:20 <kota> so some of them are quite good XSLT users

23:45:22 * danbri saw many Japanese XSLT documents for converting FOAF into XHTML

23:45:37 <kota> i think that's why they use XSLT

23:45:38 <danbri> many more than I'd previously seen anywhere else

23:45:43 <JibberJim> foafnaut's database is dead :-(

23:45:59 <danbri> I have some RDF code in Ruby, which seems to be more popular in Japan than elsewhere...

23:46:00 <kota> oh

23:46:01 * JibberJim thinks he's drive is knackered.

23:46:12 <danbri> but my stuff isn't documented well in any language :(

23:46:40 <danbri> Jim, tell me the .svg is safely backed up!

23:46:43 <kota> most of them are not programmer, so they use XSLT, instead.

23:46:57 <danbri> I find XSLT harder than traditional programming...

23:47:14 <kota> so programming languages are doesn't matter

23:47:57 <kota> for them, good at writing XML, it is easier to use XSLT

23:48:28 <danbri> even though XSLT isn't really ideal for use with RDF-based languages such as RDF...

23:49:02 <JibberJim> what's a backup danbri?

23:49:14 <danbri> uhoh :)

23:49:19 <kota> yeah i think so.

23:49:26 <JibberJim> snork.jibbering.com has a full copy of jibbering.com ...

23:49:54 <danbri> PING jibbering.com (217.155.143.69) 56(84) bytes of data.

23:49:54 <danbri> --- jibbering.com ping statistics ---

23:49:54 <danbri> 2 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 1016ms

23:50:10 * danbri heads off; g'nite all...

23:50:12 <JibberJim> system is down checking the drive for errors.

23:55:53 <KevinMarks> KevinMarks is now known as KevinMarksCycles

23:58:25 <kota> oh, by the way

23:58:51 <kota> danbri: starbucks have been spreading throughout Japan :)