Friend of a Friend (FOAF) IRC Chat Logs for 2003-10-12

03:07:28 <dmwaters> {global notice} Hi all, we are having some problems with a main rotation server. That server has been pulled from the rotation for the time being.

03:11:31 <NetFoo> NetFoo is now known as Netminder

06:47:38 <edd> hey chrisc

06:47:59 <edd> nn

09:59:34 <sbp`> sbp` is now known as sbp

09:59:53 <mortenf> hey sbp

10:00:02 <sbp> hey there morten

10:00:17 <sbp> got back okay?

10:00:35 <mortenf> yep, no problems

10:00:44 <mortenf> (except a slight delay)

10:00:48 <sbp> excellent. how's the waypoint => RDF tool going?

10:00:53 <sbp> (to be expected!)

10:01:01 <mortenf> i am working on that atm

10:01:24 <sbp> ah, good. is it usable yet, or are you still working on the problems?

10:01:30 <mortenf> figuring out how to "fix" the time diff between the camera and the gps unit

10:01:39 <mortenf> nothing usable yet...

10:01:46 <sbp> heh. how much difference is there? a couple of minutes?

10:02:01 <mortenf> yeah, something like that (seems less than a minute)

10:02:27 <sbp> I guess you could just go through adding a realTime property for every time property?

10:02:44 <sbp> or is your problem in finding out how much time difference there is between the two?

10:02:59 <sbp> oh, wait, the GPS should have a clock on it...

10:03:00 <mortenf> if you want to hack yourself: http://www.wasab.dk/morten/2003/10/gps-track-07.rdf (2M)

10:03:03 <mortenf> the last...

10:03:14 <sbp> woah

10:03:16 * sbp wget -c's it

10:03:49 <sbp> there's no clock on the GPS, then? that's a shame

10:04:06 <mortenf> oh, there is, otherwise it wouldn't work :)

10:04:26 <mortenf> which is why i've taken some photos of it, displaying its time

10:04:45 <sbp> ah, cool. so where's the problem?

10:04:52 <mortenf> the ui, basically...

10:08:54 <mortenf> hey schuyler, back home yet?

10:10:08 <Schuyler> nope, getting ready to leave London now

10:10:11 <Schuyler> how was Bristol?

10:10:25 <mortenf> nice, fair weather (not too much rain)

10:11:09 * sbp writes a tool to crunch the GPS data a bit...

12:10:05 <mortenf> hmm, i wonder if <image> opencyc:near [ geo:lat "..."; geo:long "..." ]. is the best way to assign a location to an image?

12:11:00 <mortenf> or if it should be <image> foaf:depicts [ opencyc:near [ geo:lat "..."; geo:long "..." ] ].

12:14:44 <libby> hm...I use creationEvent and nearestAirport.

12:15:01 <libby> I realize nearestAirport not what you waz`nt, but I quite like createionEvent

12:15:15 <mortenf> so the event has lat and long?

12:15:22 <libby> cos oten it's not what is depicts but where the photo was taken

12:15:26 <libby> yeah

12:15:27 <mortenf> indeed

12:15:33 <mortenf> yeah, i can see that

12:15:49 <libby> in fact I made that property up,a nd tehre might be a better nanme for it

12:15:55 <libby> works for date created too

12:16:53 <libby> crap laptop dying...

12:17:09 <mortenf> ouch, i thought you got it fixed?

12:17:35 <JibberJim> or are you breaking Damey's now?

12:20:28 <mortenf> libby, do you have an example of creationevent?

12:30:09 <mortenf> <mortenf> libby, do you have an example of creationevent?

12:30:51 <libby_> yeah, hang on a sec

12:31:24 <libby_> http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/genfiles/ilrt/005276920438957476.rdf and that directory

12:31:30 <mortenf> ta

12:31:43 <libby_> be warned taht craetionEvent is not a sanctioned foaf property!

12:31:54 <mortenf> heh

12:32:25 <libby_> but we could propose it or whatever, if it seems useful

12:32:31 <libby_> or something like it

12:33:07 <libby_> it's a bit ugly, but I think the model is more correct than others

12:34:06 <libby_> could maybe use created->ical:event rather than stuffing the whole thing into a property parse-type=resource

12:34:07 <mortenf> yeah, except that it doesn't relate the depictees to a location (which, as stated, can also be a good thing)

12:34:23 <mortenf> methinks that may be better

12:34:58 <libby_> hm, I see what you mean

12:35:03 <libby_> which better?

12:35:12 <mortenf> the ical:event stuff

12:35:23 <mortenf> erh, not-stuff

12:35:24 <libby_> if use ical:events then could maybe adapt part of this: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/09/foafcal/foafgeo.rdf

12:35:38 <libby_> eh?

12:35:43 <libby_> not-stuff??

12:35:55 <libby_> you mean use creationEvent?

12:36:01 <mortenf> :) i agree with you view on anonymous event

12:36:36 * libby_ 8still* doesn;t know what you prefer :)

12:36:47 * libby_ isn;t sure which is best

12:37:06 <mortenf> heh, i think i'd prefer a foaf:x -> Event -> location ...

12:37:10 <libby_> :)

12:37:19 <libby_> <Vevent>

12:37:23 <mortenf> yep

12:37:26 <libby_> <geo rdf:parseType='Resource'>

12:37:27 <libby_> <geo:lat>40.442673</geo:lat>

12:37:27 <libby_> <geo:long>-79.945815</geo:long>

12:37:27 <libby_> </geo>

12:37:32 <libby_> </Vevent>

12:37:53 <mortenf> but "geo" seems a little weird, i like cyc:near better

12:38:01 <libby_> so what could like that to the photo? foaf:created?

12:38:16 <mortenf> hmm, sounds like a date :(

12:38:19 <libby_> the geo stuff was already in the icalendar vocab, is all

12:38:33 <mortenf> ah, yeah, i see

12:38:48 <libby_> may well not be the best way, and fine to use other ways too

12:39:54 <libby_> foaf:made?

12:40:13 <libby_> hm, no, not according to spec

12:40:14 <mortenf> hmm, that's already in there?

12:40:18 <mortenf> yep

12:40:28 <libby_> yeah but it realtes an agent to something

12:41:22 <mortenf> perhaps simply foaf:creation?

12:41:36 <mortenf> or does that sound to Class-like?

12:42:01 <libby_> it is a bit

12:42:10 <libby_> it's hard to find something taht reads well

12:42:16 <mortenf> yeah

12:43:25 <sbp> ah, 20696 triples

12:43:41 <libby_> it may also be a bit odd to use ical:Vevent to represent the creation event when you also might want to use ical:vevent for relating images to say conferences.

12:43:44 <mortenf> no, 20697

12:43:48 <mortenf> :)

12:43:48 <sbp> heh, heh

12:43:51 <sbp> damn!

12:43:56 <libby_> heh

12:44:23 <mortenf> yeah, and typically the exif date informatin is already tied directly to the image

12:44:41 <libby_> it's something like: foaf:spacio-location-context

12:44:48 <mortenf> htat i like ;)

12:44:56 <libby_> heh, catchy

12:45:00 <mortenf> very

12:45:12 <libby_> cyc probably has good terms for this

12:45:28 <libby_> the two types of events are related, but it's hard to know how to relate them to each other

12:45:58 <libby_> one's a good-modelling tool, the other practically useful

12:46:16 <mortenf> actually, a general "this was created (an event in itself) at that event" property could be useful

12:46:29 <libby_> indeed

12:47:01 <mortenf> did you find the missing triple sbp?

12:47:09 * libby_ read a whole book on events and their names but ended up no better off, just more appreciative of the problems :(

12:47:31 <mortenf> heh, that's how it works: read more, get more confused...

12:47:37 <libby_> heh

12:47:40 <libby_> so never read

12:47:54 <libby_> do you need something now mortenf?

12:48:12 <mortenf> not really

12:48:27 <sbp> ah, yeah. the file that I outputted (N-Triples) didn't have a trailing newline. I wc'd it

12:48:31 <mortenf> will read more :)

12:48:35 <sbp> 20697 triples!

12:48:37 <libby_> heh

12:48:38 <mortenf> :)

12:48:41 <libby_> yay

12:51:10 <libby_> there's cyc:temporallyIntersects

12:51:33 <libby_> hm http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2003Apr/0005.html seems sorta relevant

12:52:07 <libby_> and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2003Jun/0011.html

12:52:15 <libby_> ?EVENT cyc:temporallySubsumes ?WHOWHEN.

12:52:16 <libby_> ?WHO cyc:subAbstrac ?WHOWHEN.

12:52:16 <libby_> ?WHOWHEN cyc:objectFoundInLocation ?EVENT.

12:53:05 <mortenf> hmm

12:55:08 <libby_> hmm indeed

12:57:48 <libby_> libby_ is now known as libby

13:35:44 * sbp loads a graph recursively into itself by mistake, and then realises that that's actually quite a good test

13:39:32 <mortenf> :

13:39:38 <mortenf> erh, :)

13:40:32 <sbp> 200,000 triples in 3 minutes. not bad. takes 10 seconds or so to pull your 20697 from an N-Triples file

13:40:54 <sbp> do you have a big lump of all the picture data for your piccies?

13:40:57 <mortenf> loading into memory?

13:41:03 <sbp> yeah

13:41:16 <mortenf> yeah, from http://www.wasab.dk/morten/2003/10/photos/

13:41:26 <mortenf> well, 5 lumps...

13:41:39 <sbp> in RDF?

13:41:53 <mortenf> yep, as 1/index.rdf e.g.

13:42:04 <mortenf> (an rss channel)

13:42:26 <sbp> ahh, thanks!

13:46:35 <libby> wow, check out the macs at foo: http://searls.com/doc/foocamp2003/roll2/source/foodoc_78.htm

13:46:43 <libby> no ibooks either

14:00:13 <sbp> morten: point-adder?

14:00:38 <mortenf> :)

14:00:53 <mortenf> hang on...

14:01:06 <mortenf> (you can install redland while waiting)

14:01:40 <sbp> hehe

14:02:58 <sbp> phew. 7 minutes to merge all the data into one big N-Triples file

14:03:04 <mortenf> ouch

14:04:27 <sbp> 42771 triples

14:05:02 <mortenf> 7 minutes for that?

14:05:40 <sbp> yeah. my RDF/XML parser is really slow for some reason. actually, my expat is really slow for some reason. haven't checked why yet, since I haven't been playing with many large XML files... until now

14:05:49 <mortenf> hmm

14:07:24 * mortenf fixes a bug

14:09:22 <mortenf> brb

14:23:02 <mortenf> http://www.wasab.dk/morten/2003/10/point-adder-0.1.pl - ugly, but i think it works

14:25:34 <sbp> cheers. getting it...

14:29:27 * dajobe notes in passing, pretty much all RDF::Redland::Node->new_from_node(..) are not needed in redland 0.9.14

14:32:02 <mortenf> ah, will try to find out why - seems to get bitten by not using constructs like that

15:19:44 * mortenf sighs and fixes his w3cdtf output to include ":" in time zone offset...

15:20:40 <mortenf> ... and blames date(1)

15:21:48 <Dani> someone could help me with my foaf.rdf file????

15:21:56 <mortenf> sure

15:23:00 <Dani> I created a simple foaf.rdf..and put online, how I can access it??

15:23:11 <mortenf> do you have the url for it?

15:23:23 <Dani> Dani is now known as Dani_Brazil

15:23:56 <Dani_Brazil> yes..

15:25:16 <mortenf> so what seems to be the problem?

15:32:43 <Dani_Brazil> Thanks mortenf!!!!!

15:33:04 <mortenf> sure thing

16:14:30 <Dani_Brazil> other questions..

16:15:04 <Dani_Brazil> there's some tool to edit my foaf description?

16:15:51 <Dorward> Dani_Brazil: http://www.ldodds.com/foaf/foaf-a-matic.html

16:16:17 <Dani_Brazil> ok.. but some that I can find more options..

16:16:37 <Dani_Brazil> that give you option to use other ontologies

16:17:08 <libby> also version 2: http://www.ldodds.com/blog/archives/000087.html

16:17:33 <libby> for more vocabs, use a text editor and then validate using http://www.w3.org/rdf/validator

16:19:08 <Dani_Brazil> yes.. but the premisse is that I have to know ontologies that describe what I'm trying to describe about me?

16:19:52 <libby> yes, or look for some examples. lots of people have mixed in various vocabs

16:21:31 <libby> what I often do is ask here or on the mailing list for ideas about how to proceed with particular problems, e.g. combining geo vocabs with images

16:21:54 <Dani_Brazil> ok... thanks libby... did you know some example that I can use?

16:21:58 <Dani_Brazil> cool!!!!

16:22:11 <libby> what in particular?

16:22:32 <libby> we haven;t fixed that particular example :)

16:22:59 <danbri> there are some example markup fragments in the wiki, http://rdfweb.org/topic/FoafProject

16:24:51 <libby> there's a few examples linked from here: http://planb.nicecupoftea.org/archives/000074.html

16:24:56 <Dani_Brazil> thanks!!

16:41:49 <libby> heya edd, having fun?

16:42:17 <Dorward> Is there an idiots guide to codepiction around?

16:43:12 <libby> what do you need to know dorward?

16:43:21 <Dani_Brazil> please.. can someone explain me what're xrdf files???

16:43:32 <libby> juts rdf file, dont worry

16:43:39 <libby> just rdf files rather

16:43:50 <edd> hey libs

16:44:03 <Dorward> libby: Just looking for a getting started guide. Basically, what's the syntax, and where do I put it? (e.g. do I slap an RDF file in with a bunch of photos? How to I link a FOAF to it, etc)

16:44:29 <libby> ok, this is the initial vision by danbri: http://rdfweb.org/2002/01/photo/

16:44:32 <Dani_Brazil> thanks libby!!!

16:44:45 <Dorward> libby: Thanks

16:45:09 <libby> here's some files that I use: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/genfiles/ilrt/

16:45:25 <Dorward> Oh, and on another matter - is there an XSL out that that I can link to my FOAF (which I'll start serving as application/xml) so that it looks sensible in a browser with an XML parser?

16:45:32 <Dorward> libby: Great. Thanks.

16:45:33 <libby> generated by my tool: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/06/codjsform/shell.html

16:45:57 <libby> it's the depicts bit that you want - the creationevent stuff is experimental

16:46:14 <libby> I have a search here: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2001/08/codepict/

16:46:33 <libby> which you can add to by putting urls here: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/rweb/addurl

16:46:53 <libby> but of course other rdf harvesters are available ;)

16:48:01 <libby> re xslt, because foaf files are rdf, xslt is not really appropriate for processing. however, if you used say foaf-a-matic, you could use mortenf's foaf exploer to display it

16:49:21 <libby> mattb (matt biddulph) has also lots of codepicts stuff and especially with wordnet vocabs

16:49:32 <mortenf> yep, xslt for general rdf doesn't work - if you control the serialization however, you should be able to do something

16:50:22 <libby> mattb's done a lot of stuff with rss and depicts, I think soemthign like this: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2001/08/codepict/lastestpicsrss.jsp, whih is the feed from my codepictions database

16:52:26 <libby> some of matt's stuff is here: http://www.hackdiary.com/archives/000015.html, http://www.hackdiary.com/archives/000034.html

16:54:59 <Dani_Brazil> if I want to build an template to show a rdf file, it's hard to do?

16:55:15 <libby> template?

16:55:27 <libby> xslt?

16:56:44 <Dani_Brazil> an specific web site design

16:57:07 <Dani_Brazil> I want to do an web site that read the rdf file..

16:57:21 <libby> it depends what you want to parse the file with

16:57:27 <libby> just your file, or others?

16:57:27 <Dani_Brazil> like your Foaf explorer

16:57:54 <Dani_Brazil> but not for foaf.. for other specific vocabulary

16:58:08 <libby> you really need to use an rdf toolkit to parse RDF. like jena for example.

16:58:08 <Dani_Brazil> others too..

16:58:28 <libby> mortenf uses xslt but I think he is moving it to an rdf parser soon

16:58:42 <libby> jena is a good toolkit

16:58:53 <libby> (in java)

16:59:31 <Dani_Brazil> yes.. I've read about it... but I know a little bit of java... but I have to learn! well.. thanks a lot! :)

16:59:53 <libby> it's ok I think, people speak highly of it

17:00:04 <Dani_Brazil> yes!!!

17:00:09 <libby> no prob, it's what we're here for :)

17:00:30 <Dorward> libby: That tool is pretty good... now I just have to remind myself who all the people in these photos are! :)

17:00:40 <libby> heheh

17:00:43 <libby> thanks.

17:00:47 <Dani_Brazil> I'm curious to know where're you from? some institution?

17:00:59 <libby> the interafce is awful. I need a nice designer to help me with it

17:01:07 <libby> an institution yes ;)

17:01:18 <Dani_Brazil> university?

17:01:33 <libby> university of bristol, UK. place called ILRT - institute for learning ans research technology

17:01:58 <Dorward> libby: Once this is done I might rewrite dir.cgi again and use RDF for the source files :)

17:01:59 <libby> danbri used to work there too, and is now a visitng fellow there

17:02:02 <Dani_Brazil> hmmmm.. I was looking these homepage right now!!

17:02:19 <libby> ilrt.org

17:02:31 <libby> cool dorward

17:06:54 <opless2> opless2 is now known as oPless

18:24:19 <Dorward> With codepection, can I do something like: <foaf:depicts id="dorward"><foaf:Person> ... </foaf:depicts> at the end of the file, and then reference it multiple times for different photos with: <foaf:depicts rdf:resource="#dorward"/>?

18:25:19 <mortenf> you should put the rdf:ID (or rdf:nodeID) on the person

18:25:44 <danbri> nodeID is better

18:25:52 <mortenf> agree

18:26:22 <Dorward> mortenf: So <foaf:depicts> <foaf:Person rdf:resource="#dorward" /> </foaf:depicts> ?

18:26:32 <Dorward> brb

18:26:40 <mortenf> no, ... ok

18:27:35 <mortenf> ex: <foaf:Person rdf:nodeID="dorward"><foaf:name>...</foaf:name></foaf:Person> ... <foaf:Image><foaf:depicts rdf:nodeID="dorward"/></foaf:Image>

18:31:16 <Dorward> mortenf: hmm... feels wrong... but I think I'm just thinking too much with single headed arrows.

18:31:25 <mortenf> heh

18:31:53 <mortenf> the thing is that rdf:nodeID is used at both ends (unlike about/resource)

18:32:51 <Dorward> mortenf: Exactly. I'm just about getting my head around it. Thanks, I'll implement that.

18:32:52 <mortenf> thus, nodeID makes it even more impossible to use XSLT keys...

18:33:01 <mortenf> np

18:54:48 <Dorward> Does http://dorward.me.uk/tmp/jim.xml look right to people?

18:56:09 <mortenf> yep

18:56:14 <Dorward> Great

18:56:35 <mortenf> but there doesn't seem to be a channel in there?

18:57:23 <Dorward> mortenf: Isn't channel an RSS thing?

18:57:32 <Dorward> ... and I'm using RSS aren't I? <slap>

18:57:38 <mortenf> ;)

18:58:38 <edd> almost time for the foocamp FOAF session

18:58:51 <mortenf> interesting; live feed?

18:59:09 <Dorward> mortenf: Was that directed at me or edd?

18:59:11 <edd> i don't know what danbri has in mind, but if it's something that can be transcribed ok, i'll do that

18:59:31 <mortenf> Dorward: that was for edd <- thx

18:59:37 <JibberJim> There's a FOAF session at FOOCAMP, cool!

18:59:50 * edd -> move rooms

18:59:53 <mortenf> ETOOMANYBUZZWORDS

19:00:08 <JibberJim> SOCIAL SOFTWARE

19:00:15 <mortenf> heh

19:11:05 <edd> about 6 or 7 folk here, a roundtable chat approach

19:11:11 <edd> danbri giving some history on FOAF

19:11:23 * mortenf "listens"

19:12:02 <JibberJim> Attendance list?

19:12:13 <edd> drik willem van gulik, sam ruby

19:12:16 <edd> me, danbri

19:12:22 <edd> and two obscured name tags

19:13:50 <edd> justin chapweske

19:13:52 <edd> stephen farrel

19:14:06 <edd> l

19:19:18 <edd> more people drifting in now, this room is hard to find

19:19:27 <edd> danbri outlining some of the issues we have with foaf

19:19:43 <edd> ie, separating personas so they don't get smushed togethre

19:21:12 <edd> peter kaminski, brian dear, kendall clark

19:23:45 <edd> ben & mena trott

19:30:09 * edd explains foafbot

19:38:43 <edd> aha, dave sifry

19:44:24 <Dorward> Now, given http://dorward.me.uk/photos/meta.rdf, what can I put in http://dorward.me.uk/foaf.rdf to say "There are photos with this person in them here"?

19:45:11 <mortenf> an rdfs:seeAlso should do it

19:45:23 <Dorward> mortenf: Attached to what element though?

19:45:30 <mortenf> you (the foaf:Person)

19:45:32 <JibberJim> If you've said in the photos that they foaf:depict a person with an IFP

19:46:27 <Dorward> <Person rdf:ID="dorward"><rdf:seeAlso rdf:resource="" /><rdf:seeAlso rdf:resource="http://dorward.me.uk/photos/meta.rdf" />? (Watch me slowly come to grips with RDF)

19:47:49 <mortenf> yep

19:47:55 <Dorward> Great. Thanks.

19:49:12 <JibberJim> I don't like the rdf:seeAlso rdf:resource="" that seems like a junk triple to me.

19:49:38 <Dorward> I was a bit concerned about it too. I don't know where I cribbed it from now.

19:53:59 <mortenf> that's quite allright

19:54:02 <Dorward> I can't remember - when does Foafnaut check for updates to files in its database?

19:54:07 <mortenf> it expands to the document location

19:54:15 <Dorward> mortenf: which is redundent :)

19:54:34 <mortenf> not really, there's no triple anywhere else tying you to that uri

19:55:08 <Dorward> mortenf: Isn't it implied? I am tried to this URI becase I'm described at this URI?

19:55:12 <JibberJim> when I tell it to Dorward, rarely as the DB is now too large for foafnaut to work with :-(

19:55:34 <Dorward> JibberJim: Ah :(

19:55:37 <mortenf> no, there are no statements to that effect

19:55:48 <Dorward> mortenf: <em>implied</em> :)

19:55:52 <JibberJim> but there's nothing a processor can use from that statement.

19:55:55 <mortenf> yeah, well...

19:56:20 <mortenf> "find me uri's that i should check for info about dorward?"

19:56:43 <Dorward> mortenf: hmm...

19:56:46 <JibberJim> to me it risks that the document will end up in a cache somewhere, and the about="" will then be bad.

19:57:13 <mortenf> that's a risk, yep, but it should be processed by an rdf parser...

19:58:19 <JibberJim> I'm not so sure that "find me uri's that I should check for info about dorward" is a useful question to ask, and it would be better answered by actually looking for uris with info about him...

19:58:50 <JibberJim> I do think we need to develop a method to have one store query others about people though, so we don't need to do this entire smush thing

19:59:14 <mortenf> hmm...

20:24:08 <mortenf> dorward, that should rdfs:seeAlso (note the s) in your foaf

20:25:17 <Dorward> mortenf: Howzat?

20:25:45 <mortenf> <rdfs:seeAlso ...>

20:25:56 <mortenf> there's no rdf:seeAlso

20:26:09 <Dorward> mortenf: I mean "OK, changes made, all AOK now?" :)

20:26:14 <mortenf> heh

20:26:25 <mortenf> bien :)

20:27:08 <Dorward> gut

20:27:28 * Dorward wonders how far across Europe the channel can travel language-wise

20:28:19 <mortenf> tak, det går vist helt fint (blåbærgrød)

20:29:04 * JibberJim has forgotten all the useful Danish Morten told me... :-(

20:29:17 <mortenf> useful? i don't remember either...

20:29:34 * Dorward was [-] close to working out that was Danish before JibberJim beat him to it

20:30:00 <mortenf> how?

20:30:15 <Dorward> mortenf: Google on "mortenf" :)

20:30:30 <mortenf> ah, i thought you had a foafbot running in the background

20:30:33 <JibberJim> Book Shop or something seemed useful.

20:30:42 <Dorward> mortenf: Not yet :)

20:30:47 <mortenf> ah, yeah, "boghandel"

20:31:11 <Dorward> mortenf: heh, quote from the #1 hit: "view the 1 friend of mortenf"

20:31:50 <mortenf> :)

20:32:07 <mortenf> heh, seems about right ;)

20:34:54 <Dorward> Hmm... maybe I'll have a go writing an Java app to process my photo/meta.rdf and output gallery pages if things are slow in the office tomorrow...

20:35:12 <JibberJim> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3185884.stm hehehehehe

20:35:44 <Dorward> Jipp: lol

20:35:49 * Dorward curses bad nick completion

20:36:40 * mortenf likes danish traditions better...

20:38:06 * JibberJim decides not to accept a lift in a small plane in the area...

20:38:26 <Dorward> OK.... http://www.profium.com/gb/products/developers looks promising... but has an interesting license...

20:38:58 <JibberJim> Jena 2 is likely newer, 15months is pretty old.

20:39:08 <Dorward> It appears to be a 30 day trial with no way to extend it!

20:39:25 <Dorward> JibberJim: Jena 2? Is that another Java RDF parser?

20:39:28 <JibberJim> That's a pretty funky licence.

20:39:56 <JibberJim> Jena's a whole toolkit

20:40:16 <Dorward> Ah... does it come out of HP?

20:40:21 <JibberJim> ARP's the parser.

20:40:25 <JibberJim> Yep

20:40:31 <Dorward> Then I've found it :)

20:41:12 <JibberJim> and there's folks about here who use it, so support is likely easier :-)

20:41:12 <dajobe> you might try the RIO parser - meant to be 60K source (rather than multimegabyte)

20:41:54 <JibberJim> Hmm, what's NUZEE.com ?

20:42:23 <dajobe> RIO's at http://sourceforge.net/projects/sesame/

20:42:34 <Dorward> ta

21:48:46 * JibberJim reads the logs and notes the:

21:49:17 <JibberJim> Dani is curious to know where're you from? Some institution?

21:49:40 * mortenf smiled at that too

21:50:27 <JibberJim> and then when you say yes, he asks University... I'm glad he chose that first and not Asylum....

21:50:40 <mortenf> s/he/she/

21:51:50 * JibberJim hadn't sexed Dani, apologies...

21:53:18 <mortenf> heh, her foaf is now public knowledge: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~dani/foaf/foaf.rdf - hmm, and a different picture now

21:57:43 <libby> rio is pretty neat dorwrd

21:58:39 <libby> nice and small, seems to do internationalization well too if you're not an idiot like me: http://planb.nicecupoftea.org/archives/000076.html

21:59:44 <JibberJim> Oh yeah I was gonna comment on that, but never got around to it.

22:00:08 <JibberJim> if you're just storing utf-8 in mysql, and not expecting it to do conversions, you don't need 4.1

22:15:40 * mortenf fails to get dashboard running, goes to sleep