Friend of a Friend (FOAF) IRC Chat Logs for 2003-11-08

00:00:15 <libby> we did a stright translation of icalendar, which is aimed at scheduling business meetings

00:01:25 <libby> I guess it would be ok, you can certainly add geo data to it. I guess photo createion events might not be what people are expecting when they search for ical:vevent

00:02:07 <kasei> perhaps

00:02:29 * libby wonders if there's a type property for vevent.

00:03:04 <kasei> i can see it being used without timestamps just for the geo data, and I suppose that would be even more of a surprise to find when searching for an ical event

00:04:43 <libby> heh, maybe

00:04:50 <libby> could subclass it though

00:04:58 <kasei> true

00:05:07 <libby> I agree that it makes sense for the timestamps to go in the event too

00:05:18 <kasei> though it seems like that would be more of a superclass than a subclass :)

00:05:51 <libby> photoCreationEvent....?

00:06:15 <libby> there's also some stuff in cyc, though I've never managed to look at cyc properly as the downloads are huge

00:06:48 <libby> [[

00:06:49 <libby> photos tagged with lat/long without

00:06:50 <libby> and airport probably wouldn't show up as "near this location." Is that

00:06:50 <libby> right

00:06:51 <libby> ]]

00:06:56 <libby> yeah. baby steps and all

00:07:15 <kasei> well, i mean the idea of an event without any datetime information... just an anonymous event. maybe I just don't know enough about the ical format...

00:07:32 <kasei> yes. the airport proximity is still very cool

00:07:49 <libby> only just started playing with gps. very fun, but maybe difficult to restrospectively gps-tag a photo given the current state of information sources

00:08:15 <libby> it's quite fun, and keeps things relatively private too.

00:08:49 <libby> right re event with no datetime. dunno. ical events have to have dates or datetimes, I think, I'd have to check...

00:10:58 <libby> hm, I'd forgotten that morten and I discussed this already: http://rdfweb.org/pipermail/rdfweb-dev/2003-October/012073.html

00:11:22 <JibberJim> g'nite...

00:11:26 <libby> night jim

00:11:28 <libby> darn

00:11:30 <libby> [[

00:11:31 <libby> <image.jpg> dc:spatial [

00:11:32 <libby> ]]

00:11:36 <kasei> yeah, I had seen that email

00:11:56 <kasei> I'm not sure... there's something I like about the idea of an event that can express both location and time.

00:12:09 <libby> but I still think that it's not the image that's near anything.

00:12:20 <kasei> right

00:12:38 <libby> yeah, it's pretty attractive. though with timezones and all is a bit of a nightmare

00:13:01 <kasei> regarding events, I think I stand by my statement that an event that doesn't require a datetime seems more like a superclass of an ical event.

00:13:21 <libby> in that case there's probbaly something in cyc that could be useful

00:13:23 <kasei> it'll be a bit of a nightmare no matter where the information goes, no?

00:13:36 <libby> *everything* is in cyc, somewhere

00:13:54 <libby> indeed yeah

00:14:24 <libby> re location, there's also the geoonion vocab

00:14:31 <libby> .google geoonion

00:14:32 <datum> geoonion: http://esw.w3.org/topic/GeoOnion

00:17:36 * ChrisDodo mnyehs as geoonion again.

00:17:59 <libby> heh

00:18:27 * libby wonders about datetimeOnion

00:19:12 <ChrisDodo> you are 4^3 weeks aray from your appointment.

00:19:19 <kasei> hehe

00:19:57 <libby> indeed. I guess the scale would have to be different. but 'about3monthstime ' is a useful scheduling thing

00:20:32 <ChrisDodo> only if things remain about 3 months away :)

00:20:36 <libby> it's sorta weird putting what I think of as app-level stuff in the vocab

00:20:43 <libby> true. good point!

00:21:56 <libby> mind you, things could get further away in space over time, in practical terms, e.g. if the traffic gets worse

00:22:25 <libby> ..but not the same

00:22:34 <kasei> instead of 'about3monthstime', how about 'about1weekfrom' (+/- one week from) a specific date (3 months from the time the statement is made)

00:22:50 <libby> yeah, that makes more sense :)

00:29:19 <kasei> must foaf:workplaceHomepage refer to a current employer? and if so, is there any way to associate a person with a past employer?

00:31:33 <libby> yeah I think it's present tense. there are some cv vocabs out there somewhere

00:31:39 <libby> not sure if they help

00:32:21 <libby> there's pastpropject, but that's not a very good property anyway, and isn;t quite right

00:32:31 <kasei> hmmm... i want to use it in the same manner as schoolHomepage to be able to group people...

00:32:48 <kasei> but the groups more often than not would need to reference a past employer.

00:33:31 <mattmcc> Would making a foaf:Organization and relating people with foaf:member be a stretch?

00:34:14 <kasei> wouldn't foaf:member have the same issue of past/present status?

00:34:16 <libby> that doesn;t really express the pasrtness of the relationship

00:34:18 <libby> yeah

00:34:23 <mattmcc> Ah, true.

00:34:45 * libby wonders if there's a defined relationship between org, its hompage and workplacehomepage

00:34:51 <mattmcc> Hasn't discussions of temporal relationships come up before? :)

00:35:22 <kasei> yes, but I don't know if anything came out of the discussions...?

00:35:27 <libby> I think we try and avoid them where possible.

00:35:32 <libby> they're very hard

00:35:55 <libby> especially as you can;t talk about instances of properties in rdf

00:35:57 <kasei> haha... except where dealt with in a specific way like foaf:pastProject

00:36:22 <libby> I thik it's definitely an interesting property kasei

00:36:34 <libby> think even

00:39:09 <kasei> in my specific case, i don't think much confusion would result from using workplaceHomepage, as the company is now defunct (and has no current employees), but I'm afraid it would still be an improper use of workplaceHomepage.

00:39:59 <libby> there isn;t actually anything that says it has to be current in the spec, but I think that's the intention, yeah.... try asking on the rdfweb-dev list?

00:40:15 <libby> I'm surpised it hasn't come up before actually

00:40:28 <kasei> I suppose I could stretch the defn. of 'project' and just conflate company and project by homepage, but...

00:40:46 <libby> it seems a shame to stretch it

00:40:49 <kasei> it doesn't explicitely say it has to be current, but I think it implies that with wording.

00:41:06 <kasei> "homepage of an organization they work for"

00:41:12 <libby> yeah

00:41:14 <kasei> "work" being in the present tense

00:41:27 <mattmcc> It'd be interesting to see what the CV vocabs do, maybe they'd fit in well enough.

00:41:38 <kasei> pointers?

00:41:52 * mattmcc dunnos, haven't seen them. Libby?

00:42:06 <libby> I couldn't actually find any just now! jaseb did one I think

00:44:10 <mattmcc> http://rdfweb.org/pipermail/rdfweb-dev/2002-October/010464.html looks like some preliminary musing.

00:46:19 <mattmcc> Hmm. http://kaste.lv/~captsolo/semweb/

00:47:39 <libby> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Jun/0057.html ..not sure

00:48:57 <libby> I'd suggest mailing the list

00:49:14 <libby> - suggest something...

00:49:23 <kasei> ok... i'll try to draft something tonight

00:50:06 <libby> go for it.

00:50:09 <kasei> i'm not entirely sure what I'd suggest other than clarifying the use of workplaceHomepage, or perhaps adding a variant of it for the past tense

00:50:10 * libby better go to bed

00:50:30 <libby> well, that'd be enough, doesn't have to be major

00:50:35 <kasei> good night

00:50:38 <kasei> thanks for the help

00:50:40 <libby> night all

00:50:44 <libby> no probs

05:15:36 <nmg> wotcha

05:15:51 <nmg> bit early in the morning for you, isn't it?

05:31:45 <trauma12>http://www.iwars.net/enfilade.html

11:19:51 <emacsen> Hi all

11:20:01 <JibberJim> hi

11:20:06 <emacsen> I'm not sure what the "right" way to link to my ical file(s) is.

11:21:25 <JibberJim> How do you mean?

11:21:48 <emacsen> I guess I could just include xmlns:ical="http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/ical#" and then use ical's own rdf syntax...

11:23:04 <emacsen> we're so at the infant stages with this aren't we...

11:23:12 <emacsen> by we I mean me :)

11:24:29 <JibberJim> I've never looked at rdf/ical I'm afraid...

11:24:38 <JibberJim> we need libby, or morten to appear.

11:25:49 <emacsen> ok, I can wait ;)

11:26:15 <danbri> SUMMON Libby...

11:26:20 <emacsen> I think they're a good marriage. I see FoaF as sort of a glue.

11:27:10 <danbri> she's having a nice cup of tea, laptop-free. maybe in a while!

11:27:42 <kota> does ical use RDF?

11:27:56 <emacsen> it can

11:28:12 <danbri> not directly, but there has been a bunch of collaboration (#rdfig and www-rdf-calendar) on producing an ical-based RDF vocab for events and calendars.

11:28:26 <kota> ic.

11:28:36 <danbri> ...and which can be round-tripped (except for some corner cases and a few bits of the spec, i think)

11:28:40 <danbri> .google rdf calendar

11:28:41 <datum> rdf calendar: http://ilrt.org/discovery/2001/04/calendar/

11:28:47 <danbri> .google rdf calendar taskforce

11:28:49 <datum> rdf calendar taskforce: http://ilrt.org/discovery/2001/04/calendar/

11:29:43 <kota> oh,,, i saw masaka's document about rdf and ical, that was this...

11:30:13 <emacsen> well Mozilla Calendar supports it

11:34:06 <libby> hello.

11:34:16 <sbp> hey there libby

11:34:21 <JibberJim> hey libby, nice tea?

11:34:52 <libby> hi guys. tea was good thanks yes.

11:34:56 <libby> :)

11:34:59 <emacsen> hi libby

11:35:40 <libby> <emacsen> I'm not sure what the "right" way to link to my ical file(s) is.

11:35:53 <libby> hm, if you have an rdfical file you could do this:

11:35:59 <emacsen> libby: well how do *you* link you calenders or events?

11:36:05 <libby>http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/09/foafcal/foafattend.rdf

11:36:24 <libby> so you could link to a vcalendar/rdf file

11:36:34 <libby> or you could talk about specific events

11:37:02 <libby> though mine got accidentally deleted so it's not actually there

11:37:05 <emacsen> there's no current "best practice" yet?

11:37:35 <libby> hm, that is the best practice at the moment :)

11:37:49 <libby> (the seealso bit)

11:38:05 <libby> is that what you want to do?

11:38:09 <monkeyiq> loggerf: pointer

11:38:09 <monkeyiq> See http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/foaf/2003-11-08#T11-38-09

11:38:28 <emacsen> hold on :)

11:38:48 <emacsen> why is there a seealso?

11:39:22 * emacsen shrugs in ignorance

11:39:48 <libby> well, the seealso is just a say of connecting files, like a link. it doesn;t really have any semantics.

11:40:16 <libby> it will just mean that your calendar becomes available to harvesters

11:40:25 <emacsen> BTW is that the right "mindset" for FoaF, as a glue?

11:41:19 <libby> I think that's a good mindset. RDF is gluely, and foaf is a sort of people-centric version of taht glue (you could have an event centric version using rdfical for example)

11:41:23 <libby> but foaf is more fun

11:42:19 <emacsen> well I mean, foaf connects my email, IM, PGP, (in the future) event calenders, pictures

11:42:28 <libby> so there is not currently a way of saying that you are attending every event in your calendar, without specifically saying so, e.g. http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/09/foafcal/foaficaleg.rdf

11:42:39 <emacsen> that way the various three letter organizations know exactly who I know and where I'm going

11:43:16 <libby> yeah, that's a good perspective I think. foaf is a good basis for collating information abotu yourself

11:43:22 <libby> 3-letter organisations?

11:43:34 <emacsen> Ef Bee Eye, See Eye Aye

11:43:39 <libby> heh, ok

11:43:48 <libby> http://planb.nicecupoftea.org/archives/000074.html is a summary of various approaches.

11:44:06 <libby> we are actively looking for FAQs for rdf-icalendar stuff

11:44:21 <emacsen> oh you're in the UK, right for you it's only two letter + one number :)

11:44:31 <libby> right yeah :)

11:45:21 <emacsen> thanks

11:45:42 <libby> so one thing you could do is seealso from your foaf file to an rdfical file; and then say in teh ical file which events you are attending.

11:45:47 <libby> s/ical/rdfical/

11:46:06 <emacsen> it's all very manual now eh

11:46:17 <libby> however the software for converting icalendar to RDF doesn;t currently add in an attendee foaf thing. I could fix that

11:46:40 <emacsen> there's only one peice of software. The only one I found was Mozilla

11:46:43 <libby> it'd be a quick tweak to the converters, but yeah

11:47:01 <libby> ah, moz didn;t do a good conversion last time I looked

11:47:14 <emacsen> oh. What *should* I use for calender?

11:47:31 <emacsen> I'm very open to changes since I just started using it recently

11:47:52 <libby> no moz is great, the export to rdf needs tweaking

11:48:03 * libby should talk to gary frederick or someone

11:48:23 <libby> if you can export the ics (icalendar) files, you can convert using a perl script: http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/ical2rdf.pl

11:48:36 * danbri should try that

11:48:42 <libby> ok, well you've persuaded me there's a few things I should do in this area

11:48:44 * danbri should get desktop calendar working with his phone

11:48:45 <emacsen> you prefer that to the native one?

11:48:57 * danbri should delete cal entries and start again, as Ol @apple suggested

11:49:04 * danbri should upgrade to new macosx

11:49:05 <libby> I use apple ical

11:49:07 * danbri should backup his laptop

11:49:17 * danbri should compress those huge video files and burn to disk first

11:49:31 <libby> I like the interface. but it doesn;t talk to all my other calendars

11:49:35 * danbri should go buy some blank dvds

11:49:37 <emacsen> Yeah Apple seems ahead in this area. That's good. I'm still a Gnudist but it's good they're pushing the standard

11:49:40 <danbri> what was I trying to do again?

11:49:46 <libby> Dan connolly, who's done loads of work on this stuff usses evolution

11:50:02 <libby> gnudist :)

11:50:06 <danbri> :)

11:50:16 <emacsen> libby: yeah. I'm "waiting for him" on IRC to figure out what he's doing for Sidekick + RSS feeds

11:50:25 <libby> ah of course, hello again

11:51:54 <emacsen> Evolution is cool, but has issues, like it crashes

11:52:01 <libby> ah

11:52:34 <libby> moz is good. one of the first to do a proper export to icalendar

11:52:35 <emacsen> and when it did (maybe it's better now), it corrupeted its internal databases, and had a possibility of being screwed

11:52:43 <libby> crud

11:52:59 <emacsen> that was a year, year and a half ago, but it scared me for a long time

11:53:43 <emacsen> so Moz Calender for now :)

11:53:45 <libby> I will: email gary, see if we can fix the output to rdf; fix ical2rdf.pl and java to export foaf props too; start a wiki best practice page on using rdfical with foaf

11:53:55 <emacsen> I just wish others published their events :)

11:54:08 <libby> yeah. hm.

11:54:09 <emacsen> wow that'd be great

11:54:36 <danbri> I separated my stuff in apple ical out into layers, public/private/work/regular/etc in anticipation of publishing some/all in ical and rdf

11:54:40 <libby> fortunately it's part of my job :)

11:54:48 <danbri> but until it synchs w/ my phone i don't use it reliably

11:54:51 <emacsen> it's part of your job?

11:55:03 <emacsen> danbri: what kinda phone do you have?

11:55:06 <libby> the noice thing about appl is that it puts the icalendar file in he file system anyway, so you can auto-convert using a shell script

11:55:11 <danbri> yeah, libby gets paid to hang out in IRC and hack around in wikis...

11:55:18 <danbri> I do to. Amongst other things.

11:55:22 <danbri> Sony Ericcson P800.

11:55:31 <libby> I work on swad-europe project. this comes under outreach :)

11:55:47 <emacsen> ah. my gf has a Sidekick. I keep wishing it was easier to hack

11:56:04 <danbri> p800 isn't super hacker-friendly, but if you persevere...

11:58:40 <libby> right, so you wanted to link to icalendar rather than rdfical. makes sense

11:59:18 <danbri> is there a mime-type for icalendar files?

11:59:24 <libby> you can roundtrip to icalendar from rdfical but of course most tools will ony import icalendar

12:00:00 <danbri> you could <rdfs:seeAlso><rdf:Description rdf:about="myical.ics" dc:format="application/text+ical"/></rdfs:seeAlso> ...or whatever.

12:00:04 <emacsen> with iCal is there a way of talking about "attendees" and knowing whose going to somethin?

12:00:20 <libby> yes.

12:00:28 <libby> .google rdf icalendar test

12:00:31 <datum> rdf icalendar test: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2003Mar/0012.html

12:00:36 <libby> hm

12:00:38 <libby> no

12:00:57 <libby> http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/test/ shows you some expoerts from various tools

12:01:01 <libby> exports

12:01:17 <libby> some of the ics ones should have attendees in them

12:01:40 <libby> not that many icalendar tools do export with attendees

12:02:00 <libby> re mime-type, I don;t see anything in http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt

12:02:28 <emacsen> time for breakfast...

12:03:03 <libby> http://www.innerjoin.org/iCalendar/calendar-mime-type.html suggests text/calendar

12:04:43 <libby> ah, rfc 2445: "The proposed media type value is 'text/calendar'"

12:05:14 <libby> so danbri, think: <rdfs:seeAlso><rdf:Description rdf:about="myical.ics" dc:format="text/calendar"/></rdfs:seeAlso>

12:05:16 <libby> would be ok?

12:05:50 <danbri> yeah, it's a bit loose. didn't we discuss this in a cal meeting?

12:05:59 <danbri> if I made something up now, offhand, it'd be the above.

12:06:24 <danbri> but it isn't clear whether to attach the seeAlso to a person, or to the RDF'ized rep of the cal, or to... whatever.

12:07:43 <libby> we suggested seealso form a person I think, in one of the icalendar chats

12:08:02 <libby> ah, no that was the rdfiacle version, see what you mean

12:08:21 <libby> I think I would be seealsoing from the person to the rdf and icalendar representations

12:08:28 <danbri> yup

12:10:41 <libby> another faq though

12:11:16 * libby chumps it and others

12:47:47 <libby> !foaf:weblog sean

12:47:56 <whwhwhwh> Sean Zoega http://www.ecademy.com/module.php?mod=blog&op=view&&uid=37523

12:47:57 <whwhwhwh> Sean Alexander http://EraBlog.NET/blogs/sean

12:50:16 <sbp> !foaf:homepage Sean

12:50:17 <whwhwhwh> Sean Zoega http://www.ecademy.com/account.php?op=view&&id=37523

12:50:19 <whwhwhwh> Sean McCullough http://www.banksean.com

12:50:20 <whwhwhwh> Sean Gallagher http://www.buzzword-compliant.com/

12:50:20 <whwhwhwh> Sean B. Palmer http://purl.org/net/sbp/

12:50:21 <whwhwhwh> Sean Matthews http://www.ecademy.com/account.php?op=view&&id=36410

12:50:23 <whwhwhwh> Sean Gallagher http://www.buzzword-compliant/dotcommunist/

12:50:24 <whwhwhwh> Sean Lynch http://sean.lynch.tv/

12:50:30 <libby> !foaf:weblog sean b. palmer

12:50:32 <whwhwhwh> Sean B. Palmer http://miscoranda.com/

12:50:35 <libby> ah

12:50:36 <sbp> whoops, sorry. more Seans that I'd anticipated

12:50:37 <sbp> ah

12:50:49 <libby> the issue was that it only brings back 2 results or something. my bad

12:51:01 <sbp> heh, no prob

12:51:12 <sbp> will it list noets too if I link it, or does it limit itself to one per person?

12:51:23 <libby> no, I think it'll list it

12:51:30 <sbp> neat

12:51:36 <libby> heh, we'll see

12:52:13 <sbp> it'd odd that I've not had a use for wh^n yet—normally I'm looking up people quite often

12:52:27 <sbp> can one invite it to other channels?

12:52:35 <danbri> .google prince charles rumour details

12:52:36 <datum> prince charles rumour details: http://www.definiti.ca/magazine/section.php?section_id=3

12:52:42 <danbri> anyone got a pointer?

12:52:49 <libby> heh, you can ask me sbp. whwhwhwh isnlt too clever

12:53:16 * libby realises she's not been on #sbp for a bit. stupid xchat

12:53:56 <sbp> danbri: I've been observing it quite a bit; it's a nice piece of hysteria in a way. there's no details online yet, past a lot of rumour

12:54:20 <sbp> libby: cool. thanks. can you lay a trail of botsnacks to #sbp for me, please?

12:54:21 <dajobe> note, this better go off topic or I'm pulling logger

12:54:31 <libby> they were waying that it was on one website, but can't find anything, except rumours on groups.google.com

12:55:05 <sbp> dajobe: but the social aspect of it! thousands of people wittering on about it when there's no data. it's exquisite

12:55:11 <sbp> :-)

12:55:13 <danbri> it's a web-of-trust use case.

12:55:15 <dajobe> that's fine

12:55:26 <libby> !bye

12:55:30 <danbri> I advise against taking editorial responsibility for #foaf's logs, Dave.

12:55:37 <sbp> heh. nice quit message

12:55:42 <danbri> :)

12:55:46 <dajobe> read what the logs say danbri

12:56:23 <danbri> [[

12:56:24 <danbri> The chat logged here contains content written by the chat participants identified by their IRC nick. No other identity is recorded.

12:56:24 <danbri> Provided by Dave Beckett, Institute for Learning and Research Technology, University of Bristol

12:56:25 <danbri> ]]

12:56:43 <danbri> "This is the automatically generated IRC log"

12:57:49 <danbri> ...if you start publically switching loggers on/off based on what people are talking about, you set yourself up as a target for folk unhappy with things said here (ditto #rdfig). I wouldn't want to be in those shoes!

13:21:05 Topic now foaf-project.org - rdfweb.org # foaf(X,Z) :- foaf(X,Y), foaf(Y,Z) # public logs: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/foaf/latest # You do not have any friends. [a]bort, [r]etry, [f]lail...

13:21:05 Users on #foaf: loggerf mlangham whwhwhwh libby emacsen kota JibberJim Esaj iwai dajobe zool_ bitsko darobin_ golbeck azz kasei laszlo KevinMarks shellac @danbri chrisc merriam Jipp grault sbp Schuyler eikco workbench Jibbler esigler dngor datum _joshua Mutiny_ ericP

13:21:58 <JibberJim> Now what was that you were saying about Charlie danbri?

13:22:43 <danbri> I was wondering how many FOAF connections away we are from him, or his right hand man, that's all.

13:23:14 Topic now foaf-project.org - rdfweb.org # foaf(X,Z) :- foaf(X,Y), foaf(Y,Z) # public logs: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/foaf/latest # You do not have any friends. [a]bort, [r]etry, [f]lail...

13:23:14 Users on #foaf: loggerf mlangham whwhwhwh libby emacsen kota JibberJim Esaj iwai dajobe zool_ bitsko darobin_ golbeck azz kasei laszlo KevinMarks shellac ericP Mutiny_ _joshua datum dngor esigler Jibbler workbench eikco Schuyler sbp grault Jipp merriam chrisc @danbri

13:23:24 <dajobe> need to regen htm

13:23:25 <dajobe> l

13:23:29 <dajobe> don't need to do today

13:23:31 <danbri> thx

13:23:35 <dajobe> 's logs

13:23:40 <dajobe> since it's done auto

13:24:17 <dajobe> --- [JibberJim] (SJ@dsl-217-155-143-65.zen.co.uk) : Jim Ley

13:24:17 <dajobe> --- [JibberJim] #rdfig #foaf

13:24:17 <dajobe> --- [JibberJim] irc.freenode.net :http://freenode.net/

13:24:17 <dajobe> --- [JibberJim] idle 00:02:14, signon: Sat Nov 8 09:37:59

13:24:18 <dajobe> --- [JibberJim] End of WHOIS list.

13:24:49 <dajobe> that's the info I don't record

13:25:21 * dajobe tries to recall why he runs this

13:25:24 <danbri> would be interesting to log the nickserv auth, if possible.

13:25:30 <danbri> google karma?

13:27:08 <JibberJim> #foaf appreciation

13:27:17 <sbp> stress test your logging bot

13:27:38 <JibberJim> masochist tendencies?

13:27:45 <sbp> whimsy

13:48:23 <JibberJim> I don't suppose anyone has access to the microsoft addess book do they - a mate of mine seems to have disappeared, no response on landline, no response on private email address, no response on mobile :-(

13:49:23 <JibberJim> aha, although it looks like he's in Copenhagen for a conference - maybe I should ask morten to pop along and get his address...

13:49:38 <dajobe> are you sure he wants to be contacted?

13:49:51 <JibberJim> Perhaps not...

13:50:58 <JibberJim> but the fact he's speaking at a conference in copenhagen this week may explain why he doesn't answer his landline

14:29:35 <dajobe> right, logs things sorted

14:29:38 <dajobe> more stupid bots banned

17:04:20 <JibberJim> oops... I don't understand that, 16:31 rdfweb-dev emailed me fine, 16:53 it caught got in my complete reject list... I wonder why :-(

18:59:28 * JibberJim wonders how many fireworks BRS has each year.

19:07:47 * JibberJim orders replacement for wine covered laptop, anyone want a knackered old R31 laptop?

19:27:15 <zool_> if you feel like a good angry laugh, look at http://www.shirky.com/writings/semantic_syllogism.html

20:31:48 <ndw> I dunno. As someone not yet convinced that the semantic web will ever succeed in the ways it's sometimes discussed, that essay made me neither angry nor did it make me laugh.

20:33:53 <dajobe> best to stick to the wasy it already works for you now

20:35:27 <ndw> yep. and I try to figure out new ways to make it work whenever I can :-)

20:39:42 <dajobe> see http://dannyayers.com/archives/002017.html if you want the detailed rebuttal, if you care

20:39:56 <dajobe> but you can't beat - the stuff I already use works, whatever you say - as an answer

20:41:59 * dajobe bans another bot, and it was from a major search engine

20:47:13 <danbri> zool, yeah various comments on it via http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/

20:48:57 <zool_> yes i'm glad someone wrote a proper rebuttal, irked enough to contemplate one myself esp on the issue of cyc and collab ontology management

20:49:26 <danbri> hmm what's narked marc canter?

20:49:39 <danbri> foaf gods my arse...

20:50:01 <zool_> gosh

20:50:43 <zool_> that reads meant in fun to me

20:51:36 <danbri> yeah, I expect it was... but the acusation that we're engaged in ivory tower nitpickery is annoying, since its problems in his app we're trying to help fix.

20:51:43 * danbri replies onlist

20:54:02 * zool_ nods

20:55:48 <zool_> i think i might still choose to write something after reading those things

20:57:16 <zool_> hey mattb

20:57:26 <mattb> heya zool_

20:57:27 <zool_> "it will not work"

20:57:30 <zool_> hmm

20:57:33 <zool_> zool_ is now known as zool

20:58:41 * mattb wonders why bits of the web don't seem to work for him today

20:58:51 <mattb> really odd: a HEAD request to google works fine, a GET request hangs

20:59:01 * mattb really hopes there isn't some broken transparent proxying going on somewhere

20:59:09 * zool shakes her head about this shirky stuff

20:59:14 <zool> odd

20:59:23 <mattb> i haven't had the patience to read through that yet

20:59:30 <dajobe> sure you're not the victim of a so-called transparent proxy?

20:59:44 <zool> it's the bloggae around it, cf danbri's feedster link on rdfig

21:00:07 * dajobe actually reads what mattb said, oops

21:00:16 <zool> bloggae are like bacchae except with blogs not booze

21:11:40 * mattb finds google.co.uk works, however

21:26:05 <Jibbler2> Jibbler2 is now known as Jibbler

21:42:57 <danbri> !pic Clay Shirky

21:43:09 <danbri> !help

21:43:12 <whwhwhwh> no results found, sorry

21:43:14 <whwhwhwh> I'm a very experimental RDF-webservice-based bot by libby.miller@bristol.ac.uk, based on the pircbot api. More info at http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/10/whwhwhwh/

21:43:14 <whwhwhwh> try !airport <place>; !iata <iata code> !wn <wordnet term>; !phone <countryname>; !pic <name>; !chump <url>; !london <tube station>; !paths <name1>, <name2>, !pathf <name1>, <name2> (for these last two which are queries about codepiction paths, as full a name as possible is best). You can also ask !knows <name>; !foaf:weblog name; foaf:[any foaf property with domain Person or Agent] name

21:43:32 <danbri> !pic Danny Ayers

21:43:39 <whwhwhwh> no results found, sorry

22:48:24 <LTjake_> LTjake_ is now known as LTjake

22:51:26 <SmileBear> hello there

22:51:50 <SmileBear> I wonder if I can ask a question?

22:51:59 <JibberJim> you can always ask

22:52:24 <SmileBear> cool :-)

22:53:23 <SmileBear> a couple of days ago, I made another attempt to find a tool which would allow me to map my contacts with an application into a graphical picture

22:53:48 <SmileBear> I found the following website which describes exactly what I want... more or less

22:53:49 <SmileBear>http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Social_20Network_20Charting_20Software

22:54:05 <SmileBear> now, with FOAF.. would such an application possible?

22:54:26 <SmileBear> I've seen several differences in the thing I am looking for, and the principle of foaf

22:55:02 <SmileBear> basically, what I want is a graphical representation of my contacts in MS Outlook

22:55:40 <SmileBear> not necessarily a mesh of contacts where all of them need to place an rdf file onto the web

22:56:00 <LTjake> have you had a look at foafnaut?

22:56:45 <JibberJim> right, yeah using FOAF to describe the people, some extra RDF to describe the extra info you need and you then need a visualiser - I don't know of anything that's right there right now but...

22:58:32 <SmileBear> yes, I have seen foafnaut. but I haven't figured out to use it locally... and I would need an application creating rdf's from my Outlook contacts

22:59:09 <JibberJim> there's already a couple of apps that convert Outlook -> RDF, using it locally, is basically just generating RDF files...

22:59:38 <SmileBear> although... larry's project at http://www.thinkingin.net/2003/10/23.aspx#a442 looks promising

22:59:58 <SmileBear> JibberJim, I have only seen two of such applications...

23:00:18 <SmileBear> one from larry... I have sent him an email today

23:00:36 <SmileBear> the other, I can't recal right now, but it looked quite rough

23:01:45 <SmileBear> I am looking forward to larry's answer, but I wanted to ask you guy's if what I want actually is feasable via FOAF anyway...

23:04:53 <JibberJim> Yes FOAF would be a good mechanism for describing the data you want, and then viewing it, you'll have to roll your own I'm sure - but I do (biasedly) think foafnaut would be a good start.

23:06:33 <SmileBear> then I have to look closer into foafnaut :-)

23:35:41 <JibberJim> aww, poor Norm, he knows 80 people, but only 1 person knows him :-(

23:37:02 <JibberJim> ah, actually, it's a bit odd, almost everyone Norm knows is unsmushed with their other identities...