Friend of a Friend (FOAF) IRC Chat Logs for 2004-05-15

06:15:48 <sbp> sbp is now known as DillLandquest

06:15:56 <DillLandquest> DillLandquest is now known as sbp

09:20:44 <danbri> i just stumbled across this http://www.haptek.com/ ...interesting re foaf/avatar discussions...

09:35:05 <libby> cute

09:35:39 <libby> be cool when svg 1.2 brings us true svg irc

09:35:49 * libby can't wait

09:35:54 <danbri> yeah

09:36:11 <danbri> you could have an svg jabber client too

09:36:21 <danbri> wonder where jabber-in-mozilla is up to...

09:36:35 <libby> I guess you can do group jabber chats?

09:44:46 <danbri> yes, can do group jabber chats now

09:46:20 <libby> cool

09:46:23 <libby> or no fun

09:47:52 <Remosi> hmm

09:47:57 <Remosi> you've been able to do them for a while

09:50:44 <danbri> they are a bit more server-specific than IRC channels, as far as I can tell.

09:51:04 <danbri> Is there a way to have them implemented across a network of servers?

09:51:37 <danbri> eg. would we be something like jabber:foaf-channel@foaf-project.org and go offline as a channel when that single server was offline?

09:55:04 <Remosi> currently they aren't farmed like that no

09:55:11 <Remosi> theres nothing stopping them from doing so afaik

10:00:39 <danbri> wouldn't a protocol need to be defined for server-to-server stuff?

10:00:45 <danbri> 'stuff' being vague, I know ;)

12:01:07 <danbri> !pic danbri@w3.org

12:01:18 <danbri> no bot...

12:12:48 <libby> wh4, new shortcut !picbynick1 is select ?pic, ?nick, ?img where (foaf:depicts ?img ?person) (foaf:nick ?person ?nick) and ?nick ~ '$1' using foaf for http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/

12:12:49 <wh4> creating new shortcut

12:12:57 <libby> !picbynick1 danbri

12:13:00 <wh4> no results found, sorry

12:13:03 <libby> bah

12:13:27 <libby> !picbynick1 libby

12:13:29 <wh4> no results found, sorry

12:14:50 <libby> think that's because of no smushing :(

12:15:01 <libby> !pic dan brickley

12:15:03 <wh4> http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2003/01/04/Images/10.jpg Dan Brickley

12:15:04 <wh4> http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2004/04/26/2004-04-26-Pages/../2004-04-26-Images/2.jpg Dan Brickley

12:15:05 <wh4> http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2002/05/08/001922.JPG Dan Brickley

12:15:06 <wh4> http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2003/02/28/Images/3.jpg Dan Brickley

12:15:07 <wh4> http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2003/03/03/Images/5.jpg Dan Brickley

12:33:04 <eaon> that reminds me - i have to learn obj-c and mail this guy: http://homepage.mac.com/kenferry/software.html

12:33:52 <eaon> that'd be really nice to annotate images... "just" needs to export foaf stuff

12:37:37 <libby> oooh yes

12:37:40 <libby> oooh

12:37:57 <kpreid> hm

12:38:19 <kpreid> that would be a mostly unrelated program

12:38:24 <libby> you'd have to have ids for people too soemhow. but that's be ok

12:38:26 <kpreid> I think

12:38:36 <eaon> libby: you can connect it to the address book

12:38:40 <eaon> could

12:38:42 <eaon> ;)

12:38:45 <libby> in the context of your friends, assuming names are unque would work

12:38:48 <libby> yeah

12:38:58 <libby> mail him! :)

12:39:03 <kpreid> at least what is shown there appears to be just a UI extension for iPhoto

12:39:14 <kpreid> it doesn't actually manage the data itself

12:39:22 <libby> right

12:39:25 <eaon> kpreid: yep

12:40:34 <libby> could you just process the xml? does it produce xml?

12:40:37 * libby looks

12:41:09 <kpreid> i see an AlbumData.xml plist file

12:42:17 <libby> that sounds doable then. ooh

12:42:25 <eaon> i don't think the keywords are stored in albumdata

12:42:26 <libby> oo oo oo

12:42:27 <kpreid> unfortunately, i have no photos, so I can't see much of the format

12:42:34 <eaon> they seem to be attached to the photo itself, somewhere

12:42:45 <libby> <dict>

12:42:46 <libby> <key>Caption</key>

12:42:46 * eaon has enough :)

12:42:46 <libby> <string>DSCF0088.JPG</string>

12:42:46 <libby> <key>Comment</key>

12:42:46 <libby> <string></string>

12:42:46 <libby> <key>Date</key>

12:42:48 <libby> <date>2004-04-19T17:14:09Z</date>

12:42:50 <libby> <key>ImagePath</key>

12:42:54 <libby> <string>/Users/libby/Pictures/iPhoto Library/2004/04/10$

12:43:00 <libby> <key>ThumbPath</key>

12:43:02 <libby> <string>/Users/libby/Pictures/iPhoto Library/2004/04/10$

12:43:04 <libby> </dict>

12:43:06 <libby> could just do int in the caption, parse it for names in addressbook

12:43:34 <eaon> what have i done ... ;)

12:44:14 <libby> heh

12:44:22 <libby> thanks eaon

12:44:29 * libby gotta go out, l8rs

12:45:52 <eaon> np :) bye

12:47:11 <kpreid> yup, the keywords aren't in AlbumData.xml

12:48:06 <kpreid> they're in the photo's .attr file, which is a Cocoa serialized object file

12:48:37 * kpreid dunno if anyone's written a parser for it

12:50:39 <eaon> hmm what about applescript support?

12:51:14 * eaon grins

12:51:14 <eaon>http://www.apple.com/applescript/iphoto/

12:52:47 <eaon> if noone is faster than me i'll look into that later this day :]

14:11:31 <Jibbler2> Jibbler2 is now known as Jibbler

17:39:22 <cesar> dajobe: congrats for rasqal's release.

17:39:38 <dajobe> thanks.

17:39:51 <dajobe> the querying's working fine inside redland (using rasqal)

17:40:01 <dajobe> just need to work on the higher level api exporting

17:40:27 <cesar> nice!

19:32:58 * libby tries #eurovision

19:33:26 <libby> damn, just one other person

19:51:34 <kasei> heh

19:51:51 <libby> 4 now :)

19:52:12 <danbri> ok i got WordPress installed, potentially to replace Movable Type on FOAF and W3C sites...

19:52:30 <danbri> rough thing... http://danbri.org/words/

19:52:44 <libby> <deltab>there's a #eurosong on irc.eurosong.net, btw

19:52:47 <libby> load perople there

19:55:24 <libby> but they're all idiots, sadly

19:57:49 <sbp> yeah

19:57:59 * sbp hugs Eurovision

20:01:35 <libby> heh, well something you did did the trick sbp

20:02:53 <sbp> aye!

21:40:45 <Mondo> Hi!

21:42:15 <Mondo> Can someone help me, how do I get the Person the given FOAF describes? I mean, how do I determine, wich is the owner of the FOAF file, when the owner is not explicitely specified.

21:42:52 <libby> onless there's more information, you can;t really

21:42:55 <libby> unless

21:43:12 <libby> you canm use heuristics

21:43:44 <libby> if personalprofiledocument type then you know - may have detail wrong, sorry (bit late here)

21:44:04 <Mondo> So far, I've used this:

21:44:06 <Mondo> <foaf:PersonalProfileDocument>

21:44:08 <Mondo> <foaf:maker rdf:nodeID="me"/

21:44:09 <Mondo> </foaf:PersonalProfileDocument>>

21:44:12 <Mondo> <foaf:Person rdf:nodeID="me">

21:44:12 <Mondo> <foaf:name>Pavol Vaskovic</foaf:name>

21:44:15 <Mondo> </foaf:Person>

21:44:15 <Mondo> But now I realy need som eheuristics. That's it.

21:44:28 <libby> yeah

21:44:43 <libby> leigh dodds has some he uses (ldodds) - cant find them currenlt

21:45:11 <Mondo> I have that Information specified, in profiles under my control, but now I'm trying to extend it to the wild web... and run to the troubles ;-)

21:45:31 <libby> yeah sure

21:47:11 <Mondo> I've tryied to look up th heuristics in wiki.. but ddn't find any. Could you please point me to some?

21:47:56 <libby> am looking...not sure where they are

21:48:18 <Mondo> One that comes to my mind.. is to get the Person, that always the object of knows predicates... could that work?

21:49:27 <libby> yeah should do

21:49:40 <libby> you could trty mailing leigh (or mailing rdfweb-dev)

21:50:03 <Mondo> But I'd really appreciate some tried tactics ;-) Somethig used byt foar explorer would be great...

21:51:14 <libby> mail the list, morten will probably tell you

21:51:24 <libby> sorry not more help, not really here.... ;)

21:51:30 * libby watching eurovision

21:51:41 <Mondo> oooh. it is getting late... my fingerss are hitting wrong keys all the time :-( Sorry for all those typos!

21:52:00 <Mondo> Thanx libby !!

21:52:07 <Mondo> That helped.

21:52:09 <libby> no probs, sorry not more help

21:52:49 <Mondo> I'll drop here sometimes to report on my progres.

21:53:10 <libby> cool. what you building?

22:00:12 <Mondo> Its allready build... was my graduation thesis

22:00:28 <libby> neat

22:00:31 <libby> what does it do?

22:00:37 <Mondo> Works in my closed environment, but now I'd like to polish it a little bit.

22:00:53 <libby> ah, k

22:01:32 <Mondo> I'll drop you here my english annotation.. just a second

22:01:47 <libby> cheers

22:03:03 <Mondo> *Agent Based Mobile Services -- User Profile Management*

22:03:05 <Mondo> The goal of this graduation thesis is to use existing agent framework JADE to implement system providing distributed and context based services as multi-agent application targeting the mobile user. The thesis also contains client for mobile devices and service for user profile management. System and services were implemented in object-oriented language Java.

22:03:34 <Mondo> I store the user profile using FOAF

22:04:15 <Mondo> It was cooperation with my colleague

22:04:15 <libby> blimey

22:04:19 <libby> sounds exciting

22:04:52 <Mondo> Was quite fun to program! Not so much fun to document.. ;)

22:05:27 <libby> always the way

22:06:10 <Mondo> But I'm stil excited about the fact that it really worked in a way I found usefull.

22:06:36 <libby> neat

22:06:37 <Mondo> There is a client running on mobile phone (J2ME)

22:06:49 <libby> interesting

22:06:56 <libby> what sort of services does it provide?

22:07:17 <Mondo> Connects to agent platform, where lives the UserRepresentative agent - that agent is also profile manager for particullar user.

22:07:52 <Mondo> We implemented two example services:

22:09:10 <Mondo> Librarian, that shares books in comunity. We store that in profile using somethig like this:

22:09:11 <Mondo> <foaf:owns>

22:09:13 <Mondo> <rdf:Description>

22:09:14 <Mondo> <dc:title>Jade Programmers Guide</dc:title>

22:09:16 <Mondo> <dc:creator>Fabio Bellifemine</dc:creator>

22:09:18 <Mondo> <dc:format>Book</dc:format>

22:09:19 <Mondo> <dc:identifier>ISBN 123456789</dc:identifier>

22:09:22 <Mondo> </rdf:Description>

22:09:22 <Mondo> </foaf:owns>

22:10:06 <Mondo> It can search through the people you know, traversing rhe foaf:knows property to the specified depth

22:10:59 <libby> looking for a paticular book?

22:11:22 <Mondo> Another option is to search also with constraint on physical distance from you, using foaf:basedNear

22:12:19 <Mondo> Current implementation only searches in th dc:title... but it has proved the concept

22:13:05 <libby> nice one :)

22:13:09 <libby> sounds very cool

22:13:15 <Mondo> Possible extension of the service is to use foaf:interest to search the people with simmilar taste

22:13:20 <libby> could be extended to plenry of other things too

22:13:59 <Mondo> Second is Meeting Coordinator, which helps to manage the meetings using callendar information that we also store in the profile. :-) RDF is flexible...

22:14:22 <libby> nice. do you happen to use rdf ical?

22:14:32 <Mondo> <ical:Vevent>

22:14:32 <Mondo> <rdf:Description>

22:14:33 * libby was just wiondering about an events thingy

22:14:34 <Mondo> <ical:description>Work</ical:description>

22:14:35 <Mondo> <ical:dtstart>2004-05-03T09:00:00</ical:dtstart>

22:14:38 <Mondo> <ical:dtend>2004-05-03T15:30:00</ical:dtend>

22:14:38 <Mondo> <ical:rrule>DAILY</ical:rrule>

22:14:40 <Mondo> </rdf:Description>

22:14:41 <Mondo> </ical:Vevent>

22:14:55 <Mondo> The use case goes like this:

22:14:59 <libby> is that rdf?

22:15:08 <libby> doesn;t that make rdf:description a property?

22:15:17 <libby> sorry to be picky...

22:15:21 <Mondo> You specify subject of your event, set the start and end date

22:15:22 <libby> glad you're using ical

22:15:48 <Mondo> ;-) I'm sure it's not 100% semantically correct..

22:16:13 <Mondo> then you check the people you want to meet, from your knows list

22:16:15 <libby> heh

22:16:33 <libby> if you have tijme, have a loook at the tests in http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/test

22:16:40 <libby> it sounds great anyway

22:16:54 <Mondo> The angent looks at their profiles and reports time conflict, or tells you that the meeting is possible...

22:17:58 <Mondo> and sends the invitations to those people

22:18:43 <Mondo> if there is a conflict, you can try another time/date, or uncheck the person with time conflict and go on about organizing your event

22:19:51 <libby> cool

22:20:06 <Mondo> It was developed on emulator, but yeasterday I've tested on actual cell phone, and it worked! :-) Could you imagine the thrill?

22:20:44 <libby> very cool indeed. i've never managed anything like that

22:23:12 <Mondo> Hmmm... looking at that w3c link.. I'm not able to quickly determine it.. what should be correct syntax of <ical:Vevent> ?

22:23:40 <libby> want a rrule or just a one-off?

22:24:28 <libby> yeah the way they're written is a bit confusing

22:25:12 <Mondo> You noted the we didn't use it correctly.. so I was wondering how it should have been done

22:27:22 <Mondo> Ummm... we definitely didn't understand the whole ical, just used some little part intuitively...

22:27:33 <libby> <Vevent>

22:27:33 <libby> <summary>icalendaring #rdfig meeting</summary>

22:27:33 <libby> <dtend rdf:parseType="Resource">

22:27:33 <libby> <dateTime>2003-01-08T14:00:00</dateTime>

22:27:33 <libby> <tzid>/softwarestudio.org/Olson_20011030_5/America/New_York</tzid>

22:27:33 <libby> </dtend>

22:27:35 <libby> <dtstart rdf:parseType="Resource">

22:27:37 <libby> <dateTime>2003-01-08T13:00:00</dateTime>

22:27:39 <libby> <tzid>/softwarestudio.org/Olson_20011030_5/America/New_York</tzid>

22:27:41 <libby> </dtstart>

22:27:43 <libby> </Vevent

22:27:45 <libby> >

22:27:50 <libby> though we're still not completely sure about the timezone stuff

22:28:23 <libby> it is a bit confusing because we're trying make sure we can round trip to icalendar rfc 2445, which itself has model and syntax all mixed up

22:28:32 <libby> and it's a complex spec

22:29:05 <Mondo> thanx :-) Making it the right way could be on our roadmap to making it real world application sometimes in the furute.

22:29:29 <libby> we need to freeze the rdf ical stuff I think. too many peopel are usng it

22:29:55 <libby> rrule is a bit more tricky

22:30:07 <libby> www-rdf-calendar@w3.org is a good place to ask for help

22:30:07 <Mondo> well.. we also used foaf:owns which could also use inclusion in the spec ;)

22:30:17 <libby> heh

22:30:27 <libby> wonder if its on our list

22:30:58 <Mondo> I found some discussion about it in the list, then in some logs from this channel.

22:31:38 <libby> yep it's on our list of stuff to add: http://rdfweb.org/pipermail/rdfweb-dev/2004-February/012546.html

22:31:50 <libby> not done it yet mind you

22:33:42 <Mondo> [danbri] ldodds, we might use foaf:owns on the new swad-europe t-shirt, which means I'll _have_ to add it to the spec ;)

22:33:45 <Mondo>http://chatlogs.musicbrainz.org/2004/2004-02/2004-02-25.html

22:34:21 * Mondo wonders what happend with the t-shirts

22:35:06 <libby> hm

22:35:10 <libby> we made 'em

22:35:37 <Mondo> with of wothout foaf:owns?

22:36:15 <libby> not sure

22:36:48 <ephidrina> <foaf:owns><wordnet:Car>

22:37:37 <ephidrina> <seeAlso rdf:recource="myCar.rdf" />

22:38:01 <ephidrina> does that parse?

22:38:24 <libby> hurrah! thanks ephidrina. I couldnt find a picture of the shirt

22:39:14 <Mondo> OK... so no hurry up and add it to the spec

22:39:23 <Mondo> .. or something :-D

22:39:28 <libby> okey :)

22:39:29 <ephidrina> sadly i can't paste from my illustrator file since text was rendered long ago in a previous version :)

22:39:33 <Mondo> no = now

22:40:29 * ephidrina shockhorrors!

22:40:53 <ephidrina> so that means we're perpetrating invalid code ???

22:41:22 <libby> 'friad so :/

22:42:24 <ephidrina> norty libby danbri! & u were so keen to be unfoafy!

22:42:49 <libby> I knows. wasn;t anything else tgho - I looked

22:43:16 * ephidrina chortles in a big saturday nite way :D