Friend of a Friend (FOAF) IRC Chat Logs for 2004-08-26

00:00:41 * ndw tries to mentally make photo metadata editing move higher up his priority queue

00:01:09 <ndw> By...force...of...will...<grunt>

00:01:13 <libby> heh

00:01:18 <libby> go ndw!

00:01:38 <ndw> I really would like good WordNet and codepiction data. At least for the images I publish.

00:01:56 <danbri> How'd you mark up a photo of the Wall the Israeli's are building, for example? foaf:primaryTopic is the best thing I can think of...

00:03:13 <danbri> eg. <Image><depicts><wn:Wall><foaf:primaryTopic><Document rdf:about="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier"/>... ?

00:03:25 <libby> not in wordnet yet... :/

00:03:31 <danbri> ...generally I think wikipedia might be a good source of indirect identifiers

00:03:42 <danbri> my wordnet thingie only really does classes/categories

00:03:52 <danbri> though wordnet has bugs so there are individual things in there

00:04:01 <danbri> TAP has various indivs too...

00:04:26 <danbri> similar issues to cataloguing photos of people who don't have homepages, mailboxes etc

00:04:31 <libby> yeah

00:04:52 * libby should go to bed - nn all

00:05:00 <danbri> yep, nn

00:05:24 * danbri ponders a wikipedia mention in foaf spec...

00:06:24 <ndw> nn libby

00:06:45 * ndw encourages danbri. I've been using wikipedia more and more.

00:06:50 <ndw> It's rubbing off from DanC, I expect

00:32:42 <Talliesin_> Talliesin_ is now known as Talliesin

00:40:12 <Talliesin_> Talliesin_ is now known as Talliesin

07:46:22 <price____> price____ is now known as price

08:28:07 <balbinus_> balbinus_ is now known as balbinus

08:31:20 <CaptSolo> danbri: wikipedia may be a good source for indirect identifiers, yes

08:31:24 <CaptSolo> a good idea

08:31:34 <CaptSolo> 03:01 < danbri> How'd you mark up a photo of the Wall the Israeli's are building, for example?

08:31:37 <CaptSolo> foaf:primaryTopic is the best thing I can think of...

08:31:40 <CaptSolo> 03:03 < danbri> eg. <Image><depicts><wn:Wall><foaf:primaryTopic><Document

08:31:43 <CaptSolo> rdf:about="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier"/>... ?

08:31:46 <CaptSolo> 03:03 < libby> not in wordnet yet... :/

08:31:48 <CaptSolo> 03:03 < danbri> ...generally I think wikipedia might be a good source of indirect identifiers

08:39:36 <libby> d'oh!

08:39:41 * libby mixes up two Timos

08:45:03 <libby> !pic timo

08:45:14 <wh4experimental> http://kasei.us/pictures/events/20030816-Wedding/images/IMG_1126.jpg Timothy Kudo

08:45:15 <wh4experimental> http://kasei.us/pictures/events/20030816-Wedding/images/IMG_1133.jpg Timothy Kudo

08:45:16 <wh4experimental> http://kasei.us/pictures/events/20030816-Wedding/images/IMG_1135.jpg Timothy Kudo

08:45:17 <wh4experimental> http://kasei.us/pictures/events/20030816-Wedding/images/IMG_1157.jpg Timothy Kudo

08:45:18 <wh4experimental> http://kasei.us/pictures/events/20031231-A_Day/images/2000-Food_and_Drink.jpg Timothy Kudo

08:47:36 <JimH> !pic Jim

08:47:40 <wh4experimental> http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/gallery/album27/IMG_1707 Jim Hughes

08:47:41 <wh4experimental> http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/gallery/exposiun/IMG_1574AASPM Jim Hughes

08:47:42 <wh4experimental> http://www.grorg.org/photos/2003/07/16/IMG_4085-medium.jpg Jim Ley

08:47:43 <wh4experimental> http://www.picdiary.com/foafmeet/img_2301.jpg Jim Ley

08:47:44 <wh4experimental> http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2003/01/04/Images/12.jpg Jim Ley

08:49:42 <JimH> libby: does wh4experimental do picpaths? And is it in another channel for playing with?

08:49:56 <balbinus> #whwhwhwh

08:50:32 <libby> I'm not sure it does picpaths right now though

08:50:40 <libby> I took soem stuff out temporarily

09:42:11 <Code_Poet> Code_Poet is now known as Talliesin

09:50:19 * Talliesin has used google for indirect identifiers, but only in presentation, not in RDF data underlying it.

09:52:59 <bblfish> hi. I noticed that the foaf camp pictures shown last week are rss1 items

09:53:01 <bblfish> (speaking of http://www.wasab.dk/morten/2004/08/photos/foafcamp/2/image-29.html)

09:53:02 <bblfish> does that mean that the page is a blog?

09:54:01 * bblfish I am starting to learn about RSS1

09:54:40 <balbinus> well, i haven't seen this page, but the presence of an RSS1 feed does not imply the presence of a blog

09:56:31 <bblfish> the picture is an RSS1 item. what does that give us? Does that mean that an RSS1.0 client can read the page? Just wondering how that is useful...

09:57:13 <bblfish> or perhaps it just means that it would be easy to make a feed referencing that file...

09:57:49 <Talliesin> Lot's of sites have a section that has bits regularly added to it. Often this is called the "news" section. They can benefit from being produced in RSS form.

09:58:06 <balbinus> yep

09:58:07 <Talliesin> Also anything you would put in a newsletter if you had one.

09:58:20 <Talliesin> These are just the more obvious examples of non-blog uses of RSS.

09:58:40 <Talliesin> Notably RSS was first developped by Netscape for such news sections, this was pre-blog.

09:58:51 <Talliesin> One could say that a blog is a website that just has a news section :)

09:59:00 <bblfish> so in atom speak image-29.rdf is an Entry?

09:59:00 <balbinus> :)

10:01:54 <bblfish> perhaps I should read Ben Hammersley's book on RSS. (http://www.benhammersley.com/writing/content_syndication_with_rss.html) is that still a good source for RSS1.0?

10:03:31 <Talliesin> I haven't read it, but Ben knows his stuff and I've heard good things about the book so you couldn't go far wrong.

10:03:43 <Talliesin> RSS1.0 is unofficially parked, so nothing would be out of date.

10:04:20 <bblfish> ok. I need to understand RSS1.0 before I continue on working on improvements on it :-)

10:04:45 <Talliesin> Yes, although that hasn't stopped others before.

10:05:04 <dan-uk> that statement scared me a little

10:07:07 <bblfish> (short history: I started of interested in RSS1.0 got confused with the battle on RSS2.0, looked towards atom, found Danny Ayers' Atom-OWL page, tried to work on improving that, and ended up with http://bblfish.net/work/atom-owl/2004-08-12/blogexample.html - which may for all I know not be much of an improvement over RSS1.0)

10:09:02 <dan-uk> what did you use to create http://bblfish.net/work/atom-owl/2004-08-12/Atom-FOAF-overview.jpg ?

10:10:43 <bblfish> I always get asked that question - nobody cares about my RDF :-(

10:10:45 <bblfish> ;-)

10:10:46 <bblfish> I used omnigraffle a mac osX only app (http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnigraffle/)

10:11:26 <Talliesin> They are nice diagrams.

10:11:40 <bblfish> do they help explain what I am doing ?

10:11:55 <Talliesin> I hope so, I've only time to scan the diagrams right now.

10:12:13 <dan-uk> this is an extension to rss?

10:12:15 <Talliesin> And from those they seem like good thoughts.

10:12:56 <bblfish> It is an OWL version of Atom. I suppose that if I am carefull to create good sameAs statements then this would be close to RSS1.0

10:13:02 <Talliesin> It's more a YASF that has some of the same goals as RSS1.0 I think, am I right bblfish?

10:13:24 <bblfish> YASF?

10:13:32 <Talliesin> Yet Another Syndication Format

10:13:38 <bblfish> oh. yes.

10:13:54 <Talliesin> RSS has problems from a modelling view, in that it uses some URIs for both predicates and class names.

10:14:02 <dan-uk> OWL is of course good. i don't know that much about Atom though.

10:14:26 <bblfish> well I hope I have condendsed Atom in the above OWL file

10:14:59 <dan-uk> Atom is free and open, right ? it's not obvious from their site.

10:15:18 <bblfish> Atom is now a IETF working group

10:15:35 <bblfish> but there are a lot of fanatical anti RDF people in there.

10:15:52 <libby> atom is broader than rss right? api and things

10:16:28 <bblfish> yes. the RESTful nature of the API is I think a good idea, + the idea of unique IDs for entries.

10:17:10 <dan-uk> there's something eerie about Atom. Anti-RDF people, code-snippets in C# and VB. It might not be my bag at all. Still looking.

10:18:22 <bblfish> one of there mission statements (http://xml.coverpages.org/IETF-atompubProposed.html) is to make an extensible spec. Without RDF they are going to walk into a brick wall

10:18:31 <bblfish> I think.

10:19:16 <bblfish> (I had not seen the C# code snippets)

10:19:49 <Talliesin> I get the vibe that they're re-inventing RDF despite themselves, because as much as they hate it (not all of them) most of RDF follows naturally from the principle idea of 1. Identify things 2. Talk about them, and since they want to 1. Identify things and 2. Talk about them they end up doing the same thing without realising.

10:20:07 <bblfish> I agree.

10:20:17 * dan-uk slaps forehead

10:20:32 <Talliesin> But I've avoided looking too deeply at ATOM. I still feel exhausted thinking about the RSS war.

10:20:52 <dajobe> there's no point trying to tell them that, the community is rather hostile ;(

10:21:03 * Talliesin wondered int RSS much as bblfish has recently, but when there was still a war on.

10:21:44 <Talliesin> Fsck it. It means we can always map to RDF easily if we want to do anything with their data.

10:21:50 <bblfish> It has been a good learning experince for me.

10:21:52 <bblfish> If they don't come up with something that is a lot better than RSS1.0 it will be a pretty pointless exercise.

10:23:03 <dan-uk> expecially since free blogging tools like wordpress export to everything.

10:23:27 <bblfish> RDF is in RSS so nobody can put the cat back in the bag :-)

10:24:08 <Talliesin> I love the revisionism than "RSS0.9 is not RDF". I can't wait for "RSS1.0 is not RDF".

10:24:38 <bblfish> ? was 0.9 RDF?

10:26:31 <dajobe> yes

10:26:35 <dajobe> early examples still validate

10:27:02 <Talliesin> It was the first publicly released version from Netscape. RSS0.9 begat RSS1.0, RSS0.91[netscape] begat RSS0.91[userland] which begat RSS0.9x and RSS2.0

10:27:52 <Talliesin> Earlier unreleased versions of RSS are reported (by the creator) to have been purely triple-based, no constraints on the XML just meanings for some of the triples.

10:28:08 <bblfish> cool! :-)

10:28:10 <bblfish> well I need to buy ben hammersley's book, and see if what I am doing is improving or making things more complicated than they need be. At least it is incorporating FOAF.

10:28:48 <dajobe> I find the atom API ideas the most interesting. The feed stuff. shrug. rss1.0 works.

10:29:37 <Talliesin> There's stuff I dislike about RSS1.0, but none of it seems to be on anyone elses hatelist :(

10:30:24 <bblfish> The most important may be: a better name.

10:30:55 <ldodds> not sure anyone has any energy left to do anything with RSS 1.0, other than use it

10:31:06 <bblfish> I think RSS just does not sound good in english - to close to Arse.

10:31:46 <bblfish> I can't see Steve Jobs going out in front of an audience other than technologists, and pronouncing RSS happily

10:33:10 <bblfish> but that is a marketing consideration - which can weigh in some places.

10:33:33 <dajobe> the prism/rss people really really wanted some feedback on their modules

10:33:41 <dajobe> pity all the rss1.0 wg died

10:33:54 <dajobe> no more approved modules or whatever

10:33:58 <ldodds> we're using prism, and I'd quite like to see it listed on the modules page if nothing else

10:34:08 <dajobe> indeed

10:34:20 <ldodds> but then I don't think we ever properly handled module "registration" and "approval"

10:34:20 <bblfish> ?prism?

10:34:32 <ldodds> publishing industry metadata

10:34:51 <ldodds>http://nurture.nature.com/rss/modules/mod_prism.html

10:34:52 <dajobe> it's been mentioned lots recently. google for it and 'nature' rss feeds

10:34:56 <ldodds> thats the rss 1.0 module

10:35:19 <bblfish> why does there have to be a module approval process. Is RDF not completely mix and match?

10:35:36 <ldodds> my point exactly

10:36:03 <ldodds> but because we started out with a module list, there's an expectation that it has to be listed to be in some way official

10:36:05 <Talliesin> <dajobe> pity all the rss1.0 wg died

10:36:07 <ldodds> which isn't the case

10:36:10 <Talliesin> Not literally I hope!

10:36:13 * Talliesin consults his doctor.

10:36:30 <JibberJim> maybe it was a threat Talliesin?

10:36:43 <JibberJim> watch out for dajobe and a sinper rifle....

10:37:07 <Talliesin> Should I put out a pre-emptive contract on dajobe?

10:37:35 <JibberJim> only if you'll undertake to support redland

10:37:43 <Talliesin> heh

10:38:23 * bblfish (oh yes. I did not make the relationship with the nature feed)

10:38:32 <Talliesin> But yeah, anyone in the 1.0 wg that has energy for syndication right now is in ATOM, arguing RDF-good vs. RDF-bad under a different name :(

10:39:58 <bblfish> perhaps one should just create an atom-owl library like foaf does and make it clearer that mix and match is what it is all about.

10:41:37 <bblfish> but if these libraries add nothing to the power of RSS1.0 then I wonder why all the atom wg cares at all about Atom (apart from the marketing name)

10:42:32 <bblfish> (I meant the RSS1.0 wg)

10:45:08 <bblfish> anyway thanks for the feedback. Off to buy ben's book...

10:48:33 <Talliesin> oh, buy it through me gimme amazon referrer fees :)

10:49:17 <bblfish> where's your page?

10:50:10 <Talliesin>http://www.hackcraft.net/bookref/?urn:isbn:0596003838

10:52:50 <dan-uk> hehe

10:52:53 <dan-uk> cha-ching

10:53:45 <Talliesin> Yay, someone buying from the site that isn't me.

10:54:29 <JibberJim> hehe

10:54:40 * Talliesin plays with Amazon Webservices as they're a good source of data when you've an idea for playing with, in some ways all the more "realistic" for the occasional flaw. But he keeps seeing interesting looking books while he experiments.

10:54:41 <bblfish> (oh? Do you usually put up the books you want to buy on your site, then click the link to get the referrer fee?)

10:55:07 <Talliesin> And they've stopped giving referrer fees for books you buy yourself :(

10:55:25 <Talliesin> So I don't even get them cheaper any more.

10:55:31 <bblfish> clever dudes those amazon people...

10:55:43 <Talliesin> The whole "monetise your website with amazon" isn't working right at all.

10:55:46 <JibberJim> surely you can do a deal with your "friend"

10:56:07 <JibberJim> who just happens to live at the same address at you, same name, and just have a slightly different name?

10:56:40 <Talliesin> That only becomes a big enough priority to act on when I see something I want to buy. And at that point I'm impatient.

10:59:46 <Talliesin> But as you can see, I can quickly put anything on the site if I have the ISBN. I can spit out RDF too: http://www.hackcraft.net/bookrdf/?urn:isbn:0596003838

11:00:48 <JibberJim> so some work on a multi-identity RDF auto-buying system would be worthwhile

11:00:56 <bblfish> any other really good books I *must* have on RDF while I am at it :-)

11:01:31 <JibberJim> See Spot Run

11:10:52 <JimH> Famous Five - Adventure on Foaf Island

11:11:23 <dan-uk> the lord of the social network rings

11:11:44 <bblfish> I have seen that one. A bit long winded.

11:12:02 <JibberJim> lots of characters, little real plot.

11:12:09 <dan-uk> heh

11:14:22 <bblfish> bblfish is now known as bblfish_lunch

14:28:14 * ndw waves to libby

14:28:23 <crschmidt> morning libs

14:28:35 <balbinus> morning libby

14:30:22 <libby> afternoon all :)

14:30:52 * balbinus cries: she wrote it correctly :( lol

14:31:17 <ldodds> afternoon libby

14:31:48 <balbinus> libby: the stupid /me i did wasn't mocking you :)

14:32:06 * libby checks logs ;)

14:32:14 <libby> hey leigh

14:32:25 <balbinus> ;)

14:33:24 <libby> heh, you big sillies

14:33:47 <balbinus> :)

14:42:09 * Talliesin so regrets his part in triggering ndw's permutations.

14:42:29 * ndw chuckles

14:42:52 <ndw> The avalanche had started before you joined the fray, Talliesin

14:43:03 <ndw> It's all balbinus' fault

14:44:48 <balbinus> hey! it's GregElin's fault! he could spell correctly!

15:05:06 <JimH> should I have both rel:blahOf and foaf:knows in a foaf document?

15:09:21 <kota> rel:blahOf is a subclass of foaf:knows, so you don't need to.

15:10:24 <Talliesin> on the other hand foaf:knows will be groked by a foaf tool that doesn't hunt down OWL for other ontologies.

15:10:41 <JimH> that's what I thought, last time I asked this the concensus was that using both was best, because most tools weren't very clever

15:10:44 <jeen> 'rel:blahOf'?

15:11:11 <JimH> rel:friendOf rel:spouseOf rel:enemyOf etc.

15:11:19 <jeen> ah, right.

15:11:37 * jeen had only 3 hours of sleep

15:12:22 <Talliesin> Poor man's entailment: Say explicitly what you say implicitly if it's important.

15:13:30 <jeen> in-between way would be to state explicitly in your doc that rel:firendOf is a subProp of foaf:knows.

15:18:14 <crschmidt> Still wouldn't help for tools that don't understand OWL.

15:18:47 <danbri> only needs RDFS awareness (but plenty tools don't do that)

15:20:50 * crschmidt nods.

16:05:57 <ndw> ndw is now known as ndw^phone

16:10:17 <inkel> inkel is now known as inkel|lunch

16:17:02 <price_> price_ is now known as price

16:20:13 <bblfish_lunch> bblfish_lunch is now known as bblfish

16:29:08 * xavier desires Dashboard to exist, and work with all the software he uses

16:29:57 <xavier> however, with some of those things being an ssh-connected screen session away, that's a bit less likely

16:30:47 <crschmidt> Well, it's just a TCP/IP connection to send cluepackets, so that depends where you'd actually be running it

16:31:05 <xavier> crschmidt: hm. I suppose one could do port tunneling..

16:31:22 <xavier> however, that'd still mean i'd have to get it to go with irssi and mutt ;-)

16:31:22 <crschmidt> Right

16:31:28 <crschmidt> it goes with irssi

16:31:30 <crschmidt> i wrote it

16:31:35 <xavier> oh? keen :-)

16:31:39 <monkeyiq> :)

16:31:43 * balbinus never managed to compile dashboard :(

16:31:53 <xavier> same..

16:31:57 <crschmidt>http://dashboard.crschmidt.net/clue.pl.txt

16:32:03 <xavier> debian/testing doesn't seem too happy with it.

16:32:24 <balbinus> xavier: aok :) that's what i have...

16:32:43 <xavier> it is goodness.

16:33:08 <crschmidt> eep.

16:33:09 <crschmidt> !!! all ebuilds that could satisfy "dashboard-cvs" have been masked.

16:33:09 <crschmidt> !!! possible candidates are:

16:33:09 <crschmidt> - app-misc/dashboard-cvs-0.0 (masked by: -* keyword)

16:33:09 <crschmidt> - app-misc/dashboard-cvs-0.1 (masked by: -* keyword)

16:34:03 <crschmidt> that's not so happy

16:34:12 <crschmidt> but yeah, i used dashboard for a while, did some screenshots

16:34:12 <xavier> agreed.

16:34:36 <crschmidt>http://nat.org/dashboard/aimbug.png

16:34:42 <xavier> is it usable yet, or still highly develemental?

16:35:26 <xavier> hehe. cute screenshot.

16:35:29 <crschmidt> still highly developmental. and the entire backend for finding data has switched to Beagle since I was playing with it, so i don't think it's even in as compilable of a state as it used to be

16:35:52 <xavier> ah.

16:38:25 <xavier> (why is gnome switching to C#? i really don't quite understand this... )

16:40:00 <jsled> xavier: because it's a decent language with a good runtime?

16:40:44 <dajobe> it's not switching. That's very much not decided.

16:40:52 <jsled> yeah, that too.

16:42:47 * xavier nods: well, i'm still not so sure if it's such a good idea.

16:42:55 <xavier> I mean, language-aside

16:43:25 <xavier> playing the microsoft game is like playing chess against Ascii White

16:43:53 <xavier> </rant>

16:50:38 <rawles> Hi guys.. I'm just doing some work on foaf files here, and some of them are not properly uml-escaped (&amp; and so on). is there a tool analogous to 'html tidy' which fixes this for me?

16:51:49 <xavier> how many foaf files? 1, 10, 1000?

16:51:58 <rawles> it's one big one

16:52:08 <xavier> ah.

16:52:14 <xavier> sed? ;-)

16:52:37 <rawles> but i just want it to fix urls dont i?

16:53:54 <xavier> well, how dirty is it? like, < within <tags> ?

16:53:57 <xavier> or just URLs?

16:54:10 <rawles> i think the urls are the only ones defective and it's just the & signs

16:54:11 <xavier> i mean, i know HTML tidy can do arbitrary XML

16:54:39 <xavier> (however if it respects RDF, that's another story)

16:55:06 <rawles> i think the rdf is okay, but a bug has caused uri's not to be escaped

16:55:12 <xavier> gotchya.

16:55:29 <Talliesin> Give chucking it into HTML tidy a go.

16:55:36 <rawles> ok thanks

16:55:37 <xavier> i personally would write a quick perl script to do it, but that's just me.

16:55:43 <rawles> i can do that too

16:55:46 <xavier> make sure to use the -xml flag.

16:55:51 <rawles> but i dont want to parse the file

16:56:13 <xavier> with perl, y'mean?

16:56:23 <rawles> yeah

16:56:38 <xavier> well, just write a nested regexp.. find the urls, then fix them.

16:57:04 <rawles> never done a nested one before

16:57:16 <xavier> well, not the regexps being nested. just two loops.

16:57:37 <xavier> anyhow, you could pro'ly do it in one with look-behind

16:57:52 <rawles> that sounds like perl-fu.

17:03:21 <rawles> html tidy seems to be doing its stuff

17:05:26 <rawles> 15606 warnings, 1 error

17:05:42 <xavier> dirty dirty generator..

17:06:09 <rawles> is there a way to redirect standard error in msdos?

17:06:45 <dajobe> AFAIK it has no stderr

17:10:35 <rawles> looks like it did the trick. i think.

17:25:15 <rawles> ok

17:25:27 <rawles> is there an rdf checker? it cleaned the foaf, but now i cant load it

17:27:58 <crschmidt> .g rdf validator

17:28:01 <phenny> rdf validator: http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/

17:28:10 <rawles> great

17:28:10 <rawles> thanks

17:28:26 <Talliesin> D'oh should googled like that.

17:28:37 * Talliesin was busy checking that he had the right URI.

17:28:43 <crschmidt> heh

17:28:50 <crschmidt> i don't even bother to remember the URL

17:28:59 <crschmidt> I just type RDF Validator in my address bar in firefox

17:29:01 <xavier> if you want a local one, there's rapper in the raptor package.

17:29:18 <crschmidt> its error messages are nicer too

17:43:46 <ndw^phone> ndw^phone is now known as ndw

17:56:17 <crschmidt> http://crschmidt.net/rdfpython/python.cgi :: SELECT ?thumbnail, ?name2 where (?depiction foaf:depiction ?name) (?depiction foaf:thumbnail ?thumbnail) (?name foaf:name ?name2) using foaf FOR <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/>

17:56:29 <crschmidt> Yay for using depiction data :)

17:57:48 <dajobe> is that redland + python or something else?

17:57:52 <crschmidt> Yep

17:57:59 <crschmidt> Redland+Python using the MySQL store

17:58:12 <dajobe> great you got it all working ok

17:58:14 <crschmidt> (thanks dajobe, mortenf :)

17:58:31 <crschmidt> Yeah, I eventually just pulled all the gentoo packages out and started as fresh as possible

17:58:36 <crschmidt> and got it working eventually

17:59:06 <crschmidt> Although somehow a broken redland-config got left behind (reporting version as a null string) causing me hours of frustration. figured that out eventually too

18:00:09 <crschmidt> used a lot of eventually's in those sentences. :P

18:01:17 <crschmidt> anyway, having a working metadata search is giving me motivation to do some more metadata description

18:01:59 <dajobe> great

18:02:15 <crschmidt> And redland is rocking my socks, i'm very impressed with it

18:02:23 <dajobe> aww, shucks

18:03:03 <crschmidt> my next goal is probably going to be to write a version of wh4experimental based on redland, so it can be run without the full web app aspect of the codepiction database behind it

18:04:17 <crschmidt> i like the idea of using targed rdf databases for people to find out information about a small group of people, so, for example, #joiito or something could just submit FOAF descriptions and the bot would know about the people in the channel

18:04:41 <jsled> and then what?

18:05:29 <crschmidt> jsled: Then nothing, it just saves the constant "what's your email?" questions that are common in groups by saving all the information and allowing queries agianst it

18:05:47 <jsled> ah, so "queries against it",

18:05:57 <crschmidt> ah, right, that was the "like wh4experimental" bit :)

18:06:01 <crschmidt> !namefornick jsled

18:06:09 <wh4experimental> jsled Josh Sled

18:11:23 <crschmidt> !whatsyoursign crschmidt

18:11:24 <wh4experimental> crschmidt Pisces

18:14:16 * balbinus wonders if some day crschmidt will remind his zodiacal sign ;)

18:17:46 * rawles mutters "Rassen Fassen"

18:35:58 <price__> price__ is now known as price

18:42:19 <inkel|lunch> inkel|lunch is now known as inkel

18:48:51 <price> "if you want a local one, there's rapper in the raptor package." -- more local than rawles knows - Dave Beckett is over the road from him :-)

18:55:51 <sh1mmer> hoya

18:55:58 <sh1mmer> er more is less os

19:28:11 * CLoCkWeRX[a] hrms andrealiseshe'sprobably botched the useof foaf:accountServiceHomepage

19:53:48 <dan-uk> "Indicates a homepage of the service provide for this online account. "

19:55:06 * CLoCkWeRX[a] has rather nicely been more tending towards pointing to the page more about himselfon the account service site... oh well...

19:56:04 <dan-uk> oopsie

19:56:48 * CLoCkWeRX[a] pesters crschmidt to go talk to some of the developers over in audioscrobbler land re/MeNow... they want to expose more rdf but don't seem to have the willpower :)

20:01:14 <crschmidt> IRC Channel available?

20:01:30 <sh1mmer> danbri around?

20:02:14 <CLoCkWeRX[a]> mmm hmm

20:02:24 <CLoCkWeRX[a]> 1 moment

20:02:45 <CLoCkWeRX[a]> irc://vortx.phasenet.co.uk/audioscrobbler

20:05:33 <crschmidt> apparently it's down, can't connect to that server.

20:06:11 * CLoCkWeRX[a] sits on 202.6.149.40 quite comfortably

20:06:56 <crschmidt> 16:10:49 [202] -!- Irssi: Unable to connect server 202.6.149.40 port 6667

20:07:24 <CLoCkWeRX[a]> well well well, its most cranky

20:07:32 * CLoCkWeRX[a] gives it a swift kick

21:14:39 <CLoCkWeRX[a]> g'morning golbeck

21:14:43 * CLoCkWeRX[a] yawns

21:14:47 <CLoCkWeRX[a]> CLoCkWeRX[a] is now known as CloCkWeRX

21:17:06 <golbeck> hi CloCkWeRX

21:18:50 <sh1mmer> hey Jen :)

21:22:37 <golbeck> hi sh1mmer

21:23:01 <sh1mmer> how are you?

21:23:22 <golbeck> great. i just got to eat after going all day hungy and thirsty

21:23:28 <sh1mmer> heh

21:23:30 <golbeck> i'm on like a runner's high, but from a sandwich :)

21:23:33 <sh1mmer> i do soon too

21:23:59 <sh1mmer> re jimbo

21:24:28 * sh1mmer tries to decide what take out he is going to get

21:29:32 <xavier> has anyone created a ~/.gaim/blist.xml 2 foaf xslt yet?

21:29:46 <xavier> (google doesn't to think so0

21:48:12 <lyle> lyle is now known as lyle|away

22:11:13 <crschmidt> xavier: i was going to do it, but i got lazy.

23:38:25 <xavier> crschmidt: well, thanks to a boring train ride home, i put one together :-)

23:38:42 <dan-uk> kick-ass

23:39:09 <xavier> though i'm not entirely sure where to put the alias information..

23:39:21 <xavier> it'd be nice to have, but it's not exactly a foaf:name

23:39:55 <dan-uk> it _could_ be.

23:40:11 <dan-uk> actually no.

23:46:37 <xavier> well, foaf:nick seems worse

23:46:55 <xavier> as a nickname is generally assigned by the person themselves

23:47:28 <xavier> (my friend, James, would never be caught dead going by the name "smoove James", however that's who I think of him as)

23:56:54 <dan-uk> i imagine the conversion process would require quite an amount of prompting to give useful data

23:58:47 <xavier> prompting?

23:59:07 <xavier> that's like .. manual, man.

23:59:54 <dan-uk> there's no real required elements of givenName / familyName in the gaim blist stuff.