W3C RDF Core Working Group IRC Chat Logs for 2001-08-24

13:00:02 Users on #rdfcore: logger_1 danbri

13:57:49 <spetschu_scribe> spetschu_scribe is now known as spetschu

13:58:21 <spetschu> Brian -- just sent you an email... my apologies for missing last weeks meeting minutes.

13:58:31 <bwm> k.

13:58:59 <em> +ericm on bridge

13:59:14 <spetschu> +SteveP

14:00:07 <AaronSw> +AaronSw

14:00:11 * em thinks brian is such a smoothie :)

14:00:22 <spetschu> lol

14:00:43 <AaronSw> AaronSw is now known as AaronSw-scribe

14:01:11 <AaronSw-scribe> +Frank

14:01:26 * DanC_ wonders if it's worthwhile inviting swBot

14:01:54 <AaronSw-scribe> hmmm

14:02:10 <AaronSw-scribe> Welcome

14:02:16 <AaronSw-scribe> === ROLL CALL

14:02:24 <AaronSw-scribe> danbri, regrets

14:02:29 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm, em, present

14:02:56 <AaronSw-scribe> artb, regrets

14:03:01 <AaronSw-scribe> daveb, present

14:03:07 <AaronSw-scribe> frankb, absent

14:03:11 <AaronSw-scribe> carroll present

14:03:16 <AaronSw-scribe> danc, regrets

14:03:23 <AaronSw-scribe> rond, absent

14:03:29 <AaronSw-scribe> billd, regrets

14:03:31 <AaronSw-scribe> jos, present

14:03:32 * DanC_ reviews agenda, tries to decide between two telcons...

14:03:49 <AaronSw-scribe> rael, absent; jang present; martyn present

14:04:17 <AaronSw-scribe> yoshiyuki, absent; klyne, regrets; kopchenov, absent; kwon, absent

14:04:32 <AaronSw-scribe> ora, present; frankm, present; satoshi, absent

14:04:35 <AaronSw-scribe> stevep, present

14:04:47 <AaronSw-scribe> pierre, absent

14:04:50 <AaronSw-scribe> aaron, scribe

14:04:54 <AaronSw-scribe> mike, present; guha absent

14:04:58 <AaronSw-scribe> pat absent

14:05:04 <AaronSw-scribe> sergey, absent

14:05:28 <DanC_> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001Aug/0144.html

14:05:37 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm apologizes for late agenda

14:05:49 * DanC_ can't invite swBot...not operator

14:05:50 <AaronSw-scribe> ... may be difficult to make decisions

14:05:59 <AaronSw-scribe> +Danbri

14:06:24 <AaronSw-scribe>

14:06:29 <AaronSw-scribe>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001Aug/0141.html

14:06:30 <bwm>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001Aug/0141.html

14:06:35 <AaronSw-scribe> minutes of last meeting

14:06:45 <AaronSw-scribe> jeremy is missing from atendees list

14:07:15 <AaronSw-scribe> NOTED

14:07:16 * DanC_ joins other telcon...

14:07:37 <AaronSw-scribe> ACCEPTED

14:08:01 <AaronSw-scribe> ===REVIEW AGENDA

14:08:42 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: are WDs on the agenda

14:08:47 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: yes, it's most of the agenda

14:08:58 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: i want to know dates when they're ready to go prime-time

14:09:16 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: we're discussing the process of publication, is that OK?

14:09:18 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: yes

14:09:38 <AaronSw-scribe> ===CONFIRM FOLLOWING ACTIONS COMPLETED (2 min)

14:10:34 <AaronSw-scribe> ALL COMPLETED

14:10:48 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-07-06#2 continued

14:11:04 <AaronSw-scribe> 20#10 continued, possibly next week

14:11:53 <AaronSw-scribe> 27#1 what is it?

14:12:01 <AaronSw-scribe> aaron: dublin core stuff, xml:lang for char encoding

14:12:12 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: i'll look it up and try to close it

14:12:51 <AaronSw-scribe> CONTINUED

14:13:04 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-07-27#2 continued

14:13:41 <AaronSw-scribe> 8-01#3 is this an appropriate action?

14:14:04 <AaronSw-scribe> frank: if pat has a good example, he should provide it but not in the slides

14:14:12 <AaronSw-scribe> jeremy: he has pictures in the writeup

14:14:27 <AaronSw-scribe> DONE

14:14:39 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-02#7 CONTINUED

14:14:58 <AaronSw-scribe> jeremy: am i included

14:15:19 <AaronSw-scribe> yess, but not in action

14:15:29 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-02#12 CONTINUED

14:15:56 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-02#14 CONTINUED, in next telecon

14:16:08 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: shoild we combine #14 and #15 into one

14:16:09 <AaronSw-scribe> yes

14:16:56 <AaronSw-scribe> typo in the agenda... another action continued (sergey

14:17:26 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-02#33 continued... should we ammend to work with WebOnt?

14:18:46 <AaronSw-scribe> postponed until next RDF Schema WD

14:19:11 <AaronSw-scribe> Sept. 7

14:19:51 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-02#23 continued

14:20:00 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-02#9 2001-08-02#25 2001-08-02#26 2001-08-02#27 2001-08-02#28

14:20:00 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-02#29 2001-08-02#30 2001-08-02#31 2001-08-02#32 2001-08-02#32

14:20:00 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-02#17 2001-08-02#19 continued

14:20:34 <AaronSw-scribe> FTF#34 - adding superproperty -- completed

14:20:56 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-17#1 done

14:21:03 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-17#2 done

14:21:25 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-17#3 done, still missing pat's example

14:21:32 <AaronSw-scribe> pointers in the running text

14:21:45 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-17#4 done

14:21:59 <AaronSw-scribe> ...any further problems?

14:22:04 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-17#5 continued

14:22:09 <AaronSw-scribe> should be done next week

14:22:22 <AaronSw-scribe> 2001-08-17#7 continued

14:22:31 <AaronSw-scribe> " Martyn to update glosary document and collect feedback." continued

14:23:27 <AaronSw-scribe> REVIEW MINUTES OF FACE TO FACE MEETING 1-2 AUG 2001 (10 mins)

14:23:31 <AaronSw-scribe> any issues?

14:24:17 <AaronSw-scribe> danbri: we can use the codepiction stuff

14:24:29 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: yes it'd make a great application for people who want to see what we're doing

14:24:56 <AaronSw-scribe> ACTION bwm: Collect links to photos and place of F2F page

14:25:06 <AaronSw-scribe> ... at least one per person

14:25:09 <AaronSw-scribe> +Pat

14:26:36 <AaronSw-scribe> jeremy, daveb -- they look food

14:26:39 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: any objections?

14:26:41 <AaronSw-scribe> APPROVED

14:26:46 * em is now hungry

14:26:53 <AaronSw-scribe> ISSUE #rdfs-transitive-subProperty (10 mins)

14:27:36 <AaronSw-scribe> proposed: issue closed using jan's example as an explanation

14:27:42 <AaronSw-scribe> some approvals, no absentions

14:27:45 <AaronSw-scribe> DECIDED

14:28:35 <AaronSw-scribe> PLENARY

14:28:42 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: i'm inclined to hold a f2f then

14:28:56 <AaronSw-scribe> danbri: makes it cheaper to liase with other groups... i'm in favor

14:29:01 <AaronSw-scribe> jos: is there an rdfig meeting?

14:29:29 <AaronSw-scribe> AGREED

14:29:43 <AaronSw-scribe> ACTION bwm: respond to request a spot at plenary

14:30:01 <AaronSw-scribe> danbri: who to work with? xmlP doing serialization stuff

14:30:14 <AaronSw-scribe> ACTION bwm: collect list of other groups we're interested in

14:31:07 <AaronSw-scribe> allowing observers: discuss to the list

14:31:14 <AaronSw-scribe> Jeremy and Pat are holding a secret meeting

14:31:47 <AaronSw-scribe> PROCESS FOR WD PUBLICATION

14:31:55 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: i don't see much about it

14:32:05 <AaronSw-scribe> danbri: we need to go thru the pubrules

14:32:23 <AaronSw-scribe> ... we need to give the comm team a heads-up

14:32:37 <AaronSw-scribe> sounds like an action...

14:33:01 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: when we get to the point where we're ready and we're comfortable, we can get the ball rolling

14:33:50 <AaronSw-scribe> ... we need to get to the point where the WG agrees

14:34:14 <AaronSw-scribe> we've alreadu told the comm team we're going to do something

14:34:24 <AaronSw-scribe> it's when it's within the next 7 days it's an issue

14:35:30 <AaronSw-scribe> pat: one doc is the mmodel theory, and it's not quite ready... had the flu

14:35:40 <AaronSw-scribe> will be ready very soon... by the end of the weekend

14:36:05 <AaronSw-scribe> daveb: coming along nicely.. perhaps a few days

14:36:44 <AaronSw-scribe> ... is ntriples a separate doc?

14:36:52 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: roll ntriples in with the testcases

14:36:58 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: that was what we agreed last wk

14:37:06 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: those are the three i've prepped comm for

14:37:26 <AaronSw-scribe> danbri: schema for september

14:38:09 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: advantages and disadvantages for them coming out together

14:38:15 <AaronSw-scribe> ... i want a regular time period

14:38:30 <AaronSw-scribe> ... three at once is ok... more is too much of a burden... especially on the WG

14:39:29 <AaronSw-scribe> dnabri: like to get stuff for implementers...so they don't throw their hands up

14:40:22 <AaronSw-scribe> we need at least a week to review a WD

14:40:56 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: 3 or 7 days

14:41:03 <AaronSw-scribe> pat: 3... but it needs some format work

14:41:17 <AaronSw-scribe> dave: i mean like 1 day

14:41:31 <AaronSw-scribe> ...it's really reviewable

14:41:45 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: looks good to me... ready to go over with a fine-toothed comb

14:42:05 <AaronSw-scribe> jeremy: quality goals for WDs?

14:42:31 <AaronSw-scribe> ... i have a nitpicky point

14:42:43 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: we want the docs to be accurate

14:42:55 <AaronSw-scribe> ... make issues clear, decide whether to deal with them

14:43:07 <AaronSw-scribe> frank: what are the semantics of a WD

14:43:22 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: it's reached stability according to the WG for broader review

14:43:51 <AaronSw-scribe> ... it's a broader grp than rdf interest to communicate our activitiy

14:43:57 <AaronSw-scribe> for folks that don't know the work we're doing

14:44:56 <AaronSw-scribe> danbri: it's a bit different for a private group... where they're more secret about what they're doing

14:45:00 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: this is a stake in the ground

14:45:28 <AaronSw-scribe> daveb: the grammar experiement shows issues clearly

14:46:17 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: we should be clear, put out good stuff, and not confuse people

14:46:28 <AaronSw-scribe> .. let's pick one document and review it carefully

14:46:35 <AaronSw-scribe> ... at the next telecon we can take a vote

14:46:39 <AaronSw-scribe> daveb: which doc?

14:46:46 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: i'm open to suggestions

14:47:28 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: the 3 documents are at a fairly stable level

14:47:40 <AaronSw-scribe> ... i haven't seen the latest model theory, so I'm not positive on it

14:47:52 <AaronSw-scribe> ... but if we can get feedback on all three components...

14:47:59 <AaronSw-scribe> ... they make good chapters of a book

14:48:13 <AaronSw-scribe> ... while it may seem a bit rushed, it shows we've tackled all three of these

14:48:52 <AaronSw-scribe> jeremy: you made it sound like I was in favor in delay... i think that our goal should be that it represents the issues we've addressed

14:49:13 <AaronSw-scribe> daveb: it omits changes in wording

14:50:18 <AaronSw-scribe> danbri: it might be good to put some internal drafts on our homepage

14:50:25 <AaronSw-scribe> ...for interested members of the WG as a toe in the water

14:50:34 <AaronSw-scribe> ... a working draft draft

14:50:44 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: our toes are already in the water

14:50:51 <AaronSw-scribe> ... we're working in public

14:50:59 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: this isn't delay.... not prioritizing

14:51:04 <AaronSw-scribe> s/bwm/eric/

14:51:45 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: syntax the first week, model theory the next, then test cases, then schema

14:52:31 <AaronSw-scribe> pat: we're not insisting that they all come out at the same time, right?

14:52:53 <AaronSw-scribe> pat: if we publish a WD, and then notice a bug, is that embarassing?

14:53:11 <AaronSw-scribe> eric: absolutely not

14:53:42 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: we're running out of time, but i hear people want to move as quickly as possible

14:53:50 <AaronSw-scribe> ... review documents that are ready next week

14:53:58 <AaronSw-scribe> ... and folks doing documents please get them ready

14:54:26 <AaronSw-scribe> ACTION dave: get syntax updated

14:54:31 <AaronSw-scribe> ACTION all: review by email

14:54:39 <AaronSw-scribe> ACTION pat: update model theory

14:54:48 <AaronSw-scribe> dan connolly and eric helping with formating

14:55:05 <AaronSw-scribe> ACTION eric: help pat with formatting

14:55:25 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: issue with art and testcases... i'm trying to work things out

14:55:50 * em will have to leave now... thanks all

14:55:55 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: an issue Dave raised on attributes

14:56:31 <AaronSw-scribe> daveb: we need to make it clear that you cannot do it this way

14:56:55 <AaronSw-scribe> daveb: attributes only take literals, except for rdf:type

14:57:09 <AaronSw-scribe> bwm: we can't resolve this now

14:57:46 <AaronSw-scribe> ACTION daveb: write up a proposed resolution

14:58:05 <AaronSw-scribe> pat: it might require a change to the model teory

14:58:10 <AaronSw-scribe> no... it's pure syntax

14:58:19 <AaronSw-scribe> AOB?

14:58:32 <AaronSw-scribe> pat: i've noticed some peculiar things about containers

14:58:46 <AaronSw-scribe> ... knowing where the edges of a container are, essential with Alt

14:59:06 <AaronSw-scribe> ... and entailment, does having a 1st element and a 3rd element entail a 2nd element

14:59:13 <AaronSw-scribe> ACTION pat: write up issues with containers

14:59:26 <AaronSw-scribe> danbri: we did resolve issue of partial descriptions of containers

14:59:32 <AaronSw-scribe> back again next week

14:59:48 <AaronSw-scribe> END OF MEETING

15:03:22 <DanC_> point of order: pls don't assign actions to all.

15:03:41 <DanC_> (of course, my point of order is out of order, since I'm not attending the meeting ;-)

15:14:13 <AaronSw-scribe> AaronSw-scribe is now known as AaronSw

15:19:21 <DanC_> DanC_ is now known as DanC