Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2001-05-05

00:02:10 <AaronSw> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2001May/0054.html

00:02:11 <dc_rdfig> A: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2001May/0054.html from AaronSw

00:02:21 <AaronSw> A:|QName Problem Isn't One

00:02:22 <dc_rdfig> titled item A

00:03:13 <AaronSw> A:to combat misconceptions about the RDF QName->URI function

00:03:14 <dc_rdfig> commented item A

00:03:29 <AaronSw> A:... now watch the flames roll in...

00:03:30 <dc_rdfig> commented item A

01:09:09 Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logger[tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk] by forward.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logger[tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk]))

01:09:09 Attempting to reconnect

01:10:04 Topic now [WWW10 Edition] Semantic Web (archives: http://rdfig.xmlhack.com)

01:10:04 Users on #rdfig: logger GabeW AaronSw bijan eikeon dc_rdfig baud Nabil

01:10:05 <ChanServ> Links and more info at: http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/

01:22:11 <bijan> Hey DanC.

01:22:47 <DanC_hk> hi. setting up for devday here.

01:22:57 <bijan> Cool.

01:23:11 <DanC_hk> ed says hi.

01:23:18 <bijan> Ah!

01:23:25 <bijan> I return the greeting.

01:23:28 <DanC_hk> this channel is projected, just now, btw.

01:23:36 <bijan> Eek!

01:23:44 <bijan> Hello Hong Kong!

01:23:56 <DanC_hk> there are only 3 of us in the room, though.

01:24:14 <DanC_hk> my talk is in T-35 min.

01:24:14 <bijan> Well, two of you make a quality audience, so.

01:24:19 <bijan> Eek.

01:24:22 <bijan> What on?

01:24:26 <DanC_hk> eek: exactly!

01:24:36 * bijan notes that he knows a victim of the Great China Hacker assault: http://www.exobox.com/

01:24:37 <DanC_hk> what on: good question! any suggestions?

01:24:45 <bijan> Erhm.

01:24:57 <DanC_hk> "A day in the life of the semantic web" is the general theme I intend to talk on.

01:25:12 <bijan> Well, I just read a paper about the problems of sharing knowledge between different inference engines.

01:25:16 <bijan> Er..*started* to read.

01:25:19 <DanC_hk> I'm deciding which of the recent hacks to present: RSS from our home page, palmpilot stuff, circles-and-arrows, etc.

01:25:36 <DanC_hk> sharing: interesting.

01:25:37 <bijan> And I read some Loom stuff on subsuming ontologies over a wide scale...

01:25:58 <bijan> Loom---must be studied.

01:26:02 * DanC_hk disconnects from the projector...

01:27:00 <bijan> Hmm. A day in the life of the semantic web...

01:27:08 <bijan> "I read your news today, oh boy."

01:27:20 <bijan> "Your rules tell me that it's time to leave!"

01:27:44 <bijan> "You'd love to turn me ononononon..."

01:28:52 <bijan> Well, remember, *never show fear*>

01:42:12 <bijan> Hiya Ralph.

01:42:29 <RalphS> hey all. about to chair WWW10 Semantic Web DevDay track :-)

01:42:47 <edd> mmm, bijan: want to chair it remotely? :)

01:42:53 <bijan> Sure!

01:43:10 <bijan> I've called you all here....

01:43:20 <RalphS> hmm. speaker-mobile-phone for 7 hours. could be costly. or ip-phone?!

01:43:45 <bijan> Just project the channel on the screen!

01:44:37 <edd> Good morning Art.

01:51:21 <rBijan> rBijan is now known as bijan

02:11:23 <edd> RalphS is now welcoming people to the session.

02:12:02 <edd> ralph notes emiller's son born last week.

02:13:01 <edd> room is pretty full.

02:13:53 <DanC_hk> http://potlach.org/people/alex/

02:13:53 <dc_rdfig> B: http://potlach.org/people/alex/ from DanC_hk

02:14:26 <DanC_hk> B:|Alexander Christian Miller

02:14:26 <dc_rdfig> titled item B

02:14:32 <DanC_hk> B:born 1 May 2001!

02:14:32 <dc_rdfig> commented item B

02:14:32 <bijan> <whisper>Isn't dan speaking?</whisper>

02:14:43 <edd> ralph is doing his introduction.

02:15:18 <bijan> Intro for the whole track?

02:15:25 * edd nods.

02:17:35 <edd> ralph notes the semantic web has more than just navigational links, ie. semantic links.

02:17:40 <edd> introduces DanC.

02:18:30 <edd> title of DanC's slides; "A Day in the Life of the Semantic Web"

02:19:14 <bijan> Oh boy!

02:19:40 <edd> danc "the phone rings, and up comes a description of the caller, and a list of plans and meetings that involves the caller"

02:20:08 <edd> danc "the caller and i often use irc, and scribble it in there, and web sites get updated..."

02:21:10 <edd> talking about deciding travelling arrangements ... danc wants to get the info into his palm pilot from the online meeting

02:21:28 <edd> danc "the bane of my existence is doign anything the compute rcould do for me"

02:21:54 <bijan> Heh. I believe that.

02:22:03 <edd> object of the semantic web: making it cost-effective for people to record their knowledge for machine conspumption -- reducing the cost, increasing the value

02:22:22 <edd> danc moves on to start talking about DAML and OIL.

02:24:55 <edd> explains rdf syntax basics, URIs for terms.

02:26:03 <edd> explains namespace prefixes and demonstrates the XML syntax of RDF

02:26:31 <bijan> <sigh/>Yes, I've been struggling with how to incorporate this into part ii.

02:26:49 <edd> explains Class and subClassOf

02:27:00 <edd> danc "i just learned what ontologies mean in the last few months ... "

02:27:09 <sbp> Heh

02:27:15 <edd> shows type, subclass relations on screen.

02:27:20 <bijan> http://www.daml.org/2001/03/daml+oil-index

02:27:20 <dc_rdfig> C: http://www.daml.org/2001/03/daml+oil-index from bijan

02:27:37 <bijan> C:|DAML+OIL, March 2001 version.

02:27:38 <dc_rdfig> titled item C

02:27:52 <bijan> C:What DanC is talking about...as a last minute sub!

02:27:54 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

02:28:08 <bijan> C:*Right* now, so mind your manners.

02:28:15 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

02:28:17 <edd> mentions that using subClassof information, we can infer rdf:type relations ...

02:28:35 <edd> audience member says "is this like finding a trnasitive closure of a graph "... danc says yes.

02:29:19 <edd> refers to timbl's cwm

02:30:34 <edd> talks about domain and range of properties.

02:30:34 <edd> http://www.mozilla.org/docs/xul/xulnotes/template-outliner.html

02:30:35 <dc_rdfig> D: http://www.mozilla.org/docs/xul/xulnotes/template-outliner.html from edd

02:30:58 <edd> D:|The Outliner stuff from XUL

02:30:58 <ArtB> DanC_hk: properties are first class citizens; they can be arcs and nodes

02:30:58 <dc_rdfig> titled item D

02:31:42 <edd> danc introduces daml.

02:31:59 <ArtB> DanC_hk: DAML+OIL: Set Operations

02:32:05 <edd> explains how they came up with a list of common useful terms

02:32:09 * bijan reading the DAML walkthrough and trying to imagine DanC's voice...which /me's never heard.

02:32:53 * sbp wonders how far apart ArtB and Edd are in the room

02:32:54 <edd> explains unionOf intersectionOf disjointWith

02:33:36 <edd> shows that cwm can be run with daml rules to show contradictions

02:34:27 <edd> explains the 'first' and 'rest' operations in DAML

02:34:37 <edd> came about cos RDF sequences caused trouble for describing lists

02:34:47 <edd> so first and rest as a list vocabulary came into being

02:34:58 <bijan> Greenspun's law.

02:37:29 <ArtB> Hi Sean - Edd's about two meters in front of me :-)

02:38:06 <sbp> Heh, you can look over his shoulder to see what he's writing. Oh hang on, you don't need to :-)

02:38:21 <bijan> Oops. Looks like wireless kicked out.

02:39:07 <edd> danc concludes, takes questions.

02:39:35 <bijan> That was quick!

02:39:48 <sbp> That's what I was thinking

02:40:18 * bijan claps anyway....good going Dan!

02:40:36 <edd> member of the DAML+OIL actvitiy points out

02:40:49 <bijan> People who fill in deserve boostering.

02:40:59 <edd> http://www.ontoknowledge.org/oil/

02:41:00 <dc_rdfig> E: http://www.ontoknowledge.org/oil/ from edd

02:41:26 <edd> E:|OIL

02:41:26 <dc_rdfig> titled item E

02:42:16 <edd> RalphS: that Carole Goble?

02:42:53 <edd> danc moves on now.

02:43:06 <edd> finished with daml, talks about some tools he has.

02:43:15 <sbp> Ugh...

02:44:02 * sbp is trying to figure out how to express that a bunch of Classes are pairwise disjoint in Notation3

02:45:33 <edd> <edd> talks about RSS in XHTML

02:45:33 <edd> <edd> describes his XSLT script for getting RSS items from the W3C homepage.

02:45:38 <edd> shows meerkat.

02:45:45 <edd> audience member asks how meerkat knew about the channel.

02:45:56 <bijan> (Lucky guess)

02:45:57 <edd> answer: just told rael about its existence.

02:46:52 <edd> danc talks about his palm pilot calendar syncing

02:47:05 <edd> palm pilot -> rdf

02:47:09 <edd> rdf via xslt -> html

02:47:30 <edd> . http://www.w3.org/2001/05dc-hkg/trip-sched

02:47:46 <edd> that last URL protected :)

02:47:49 <bijan> Needs...

02:47:50 <edd> but that's what he's showing on the screne

02:47:52 <bijan> BOut to say ;)

02:49:07 <sbp> Aw... I guess you just have to be there

02:49:31 <edd> danc wants top run a query engine over his scheudle.

02:49:35 <edd> he hopes to do that over lunch :)

02:49:39 <edd> danc finishes.

02:51:17 <edd> <edd> danc wants top run a query engine over his scheudle.

02:51:18 <edd> <edd> he hopes to do that over lunch :)

02:51:18 <edd> <edd> danc finishes.

02:51:18 <edd> <edd> audience member asks about subsumptive and some other types of relationships

02:51:54 <edd> ralph now starts to talk abot annotea

02:52:12 <edd> "a generic annotation environment using rdf/xml"

02:52:22 <DanC_hk> that would be [ a daml:Disjoint; daml:first :Car; daml:rest (:Tree :Book)].

02:52:36 <DanC_hk> er... I think.

02:52:37 <bijan> Hey dan!

02:52:44 <sbp> Oh... cheers Dan :-) And well done on your speech

02:52:46 <bijan> Sounds like a good show.

02:52:55 <edd> earlier danc talked about it would be good to get chump annotations into Annotea.

02:53:02 <bijan> Yep.

02:53:07 <bijan> <sigh/>

02:53:07 <ArtB> Annotea: http://www.w3.org/2001/Annotea

02:53:15 * DanC_hk checks in his slide, such as they are...

02:53:21 <edd> goals of annotea: to support collaborative working groups with a general web annotation system,

02:53:26 <bijan> I started digging on an IRC-->annotea interface....

02:53:31 <edd> and to demonstrate the SW

02:53:35 <bijan> Should just finish the chimp and role from there.

02:53:56 <edd> ArtB: what do i need to get set up on annotea?

02:54:05 <DanC_hk> yes... don't do a specific IRC->annotea thingy; do a general IRC/RDF thingy and use it to interface with annotea.

02:54:41 <bijan> IIRC, edd pointed me to annotea, but they just have textual comments, yes?

02:54:54 <edd> ralph encourages folks to check out annotea code and run your own oen

02:55:13 * sbp wonders about Annotea ports for IIS

02:55:27 <bijan> So, actually, current chumps are just an XSLT away from annoteabliss?

02:56:06 * edd finds the form at http://annotest.w3.org/access

02:56:19 <ArtB> edd - do you mean with Amaya or the bookmarklets or Annozilla?

02:56:28 <edd> ArtB: Amaya

02:57:01 <ArtB> edd - I'd start with http://www.w3.org/2001/Annotea

02:57:13 * edd fills in the access request form

02:57:35 <edd> ralph explains that annotea uses POST, GeT PUT and DELETE

02:57:40 <edd> RDF is sent to and returned from the server

02:57:43 <ArtB> bijan - an annotation body can contain any HTML

02:58:12 <bijan> Ah, right.

02:58:15 <sbp> any XML?

02:58:28 <edd> a POST stores the RDF in a database and returns the URI it assigned to 'that package' of RDF

02:58:30 <bijan> For the semantiChimp, I was looking for RDF/XML commetns.

02:58:48 <ArtB> sbp - XML vs HTML - that's a browser issue. Annotea doesn't care.

02:58:51 <bijan> But plain chump is just text.

02:59:06 <bijan> Ah!

02:59:10 <sbp> Cool; so it can store any textual data

02:59:10 <edd> when surfing, send a URI with a GET to the annotea server, it returns an RDF/XML list of all the annotations

02:59:16 <bijan> So it's just orthoganal.

03:00:03 <edd> ralph explains that raw HTTP is used, they're looking at where it might be appopriate to use WebDAV

03:01:34 <edd> shows a graph of an annotation

03:01:45 <edd> an annotation is anything with rdf:type of Annotation

03:01:49 <DanC_hk> http://www.w3.org/2001/Talks/05www10-swfig/all.htm

03:01:49 <dc_rdfig> F: http://www.w3.org/2001/Talks/05www10-swfig/all.htm from DanC_hk

03:02:02 <DanC_hk> F:|Building Ontologies with RDF and DAML+OIL

03:02:02 <dc_rdfig> titled item F

03:02:07 <DanC_hk> F:my talk from yesterday

03:02:08 <dc_rdfig> commented item F

03:02:42 <sbp> F:Complete with more of those neat SVG diagrams.. ah, accessible image formats

03:02:42 <dc_rdfig> commented item F

03:03:06 * edd getting tired of these connectivity breaks

03:03:25 * edd misses ralph's explaantion of why RDF is ideal for Annotea ... anyone fill in?

03:04:18 <edd> q; can you only annotate complete documents or partial documents?

03:04:31 <edd> a; ralph explains the context property of an annotation.

03:04:38 <DanC_hk> F:all the [parts|http://www.w3.org/2001/Talks/05www10-swfig/] of the talk

03:04:38 <dc_rdfig> commented item F

03:04:40 <ArtB> Edd - the point was that new properties can be added to an annotation without having to change the Annotea server or the Annotea protocol.

03:05:23 <edd> ArtB: thanks. same reasons we wanted for RSS -- evolvability

03:06:27 <ArtB> edd - partial vs complete. The Annotea protocol doesn't specify. The Amaya implementation of Annotea allows the user to create document-level annotations or fine-grained [e.g. the current selection, part of a SVG element] annotations.

03:06:49 <DanC_hk> http://www.w3.org/2001/Talks/www10-Annotea-devday/all.htm

03:06:50 <dc_rdfig> G: http://www.w3.org/2001/Talks/www10-Annotea-devday/all.htm from DanC_hk

03:07:08 <DanC_hk> G:|Annotea: A Generic Annotation Environment Using RDF/XML

03:07:08 <dc_rdfig> titled item G

03:07:18 <DanC_hk> G:|the slides Ralph is presenting

03:07:18 <dc_rdfig> titled item G

03:08:58 <edd> ralph explains that annotations can be threaded like a discussion.

03:09:45 <edd> and that they didn't think that a reply to an annotation should be an annotation, they invented the type reply.

03:10:02 <edd> at some point the future they may decide that reply is a subclass of annotation, when they've decided...

03:10:17 <sbp> ArtB: Those bookmarklets are really great, BTW

03:11:06 * ArtB grins to Sean and suggests that he give Annozilla a try ...

03:12:17 * sbp tries to find a reference to Annozilla...

03:12:39 <sbp> Got it

03:12:51 <sbp> http://annozilla.mozdev.org/

03:12:52 <dc_rdfig> H: http://annozilla.mozdev.org/ from sbp

03:12:59 <sbp> H:|Annozilla

03:13:00 <dc_rdfig> titled item H

03:13:18 * edd gets annotea working in Amaya

03:13:41 <ArtB> Sean - I'm going to give a demo in about 10 minutes and in my demo I use both Mozilla and NC. For some [unknown] reason, they seem to be fighting with each and Moz seems to kill NC. So, for the moment, I'm reluctant to touch these browser until after my demo.

03:14:20 <ArtB> ... Thus I'm not able to post URIs to this channel ...

03:14:38 <edd> ralph metions the chump on a slide

03:14:44 <sbp> Hmm... interesting. Well, I'm going to attempt to install it with Ns6 anyway, and see how it goes

03:14:49 <edd> see future ideas for annotea slide.

03:15:13 <sbp> Oh, and I'd better try to find my Annotea user/pass combo as well; ugh

03:15:38 <ArtB> To use Annozilla, I needed to install the 0.8.1 version of Mozilla.

03:15:57 <ArtB> Haven't tried NS 6. Please let me know how it goes.

03:16:11 <sbp> O.K., I'll start it up and try it right now

03:18:02 <edd> Jose Kahan from W3c demonstrates anotea with amaya

03:21:55 * sbp has installed Annozilla on Ns6, and is restarting the browser...

03:23:43 <edd> hmm, annozilla doesn't work on my mozilla

03:23:54 <edd> about:mozilla says version is "Mozilla 0.8.1+"

03:24:06 <edd> which i got from debian unstable.

03:25:34 <sbp> Yep, it doesn't appear to have worked on Ns6 either

03:27:52 <ArtB> edd - what do you mean by it doesn't work?

03:29:11 <ArtB> Edd, Sean - go to http://www.w3.org/2001/Annotea - do you see any annotations?

03:30:55 <sbp> Where would the annotations be? I've got nothing

03:31:10 <edd> ArtB: the prefs dialog. seems i have anewer than 0.8.1. i see annos in amaya just fine.

03:33:28 * DanC_hk updates http://www.w3.org/Talks/ to show the Annotea slides and my RDF/DAML+OIL slides

03:33:48 * DanC_hk fails to publish my slides from to day; can't cvs commit them.

03:36:25 * sbp sees the Annotations just fin in Amaya too, but can't get Ns6 to work... ugh

03:38:29 <edd> art demos the bookmarklet stuff.

03:39:18 <sbp> Cool

03:40:40 <sbp> Oh, note to Art: if you make the annotation bookmarklets links, then you can just drag them onto the toolbar

03:41:43 <sbp> http://www.w3.org/2000/02/collaboration/annotation/JavaScript/Annotea-JavaScript.html

03:41:44 <dc_rdfig> I: http://www.w3.org/2000/02/collaboration/annotation/JavaScript/Annotea-JavaScript.html from sbp

03:42:11 <sbp> I:|Annotea Bookmarklets, by ArtB

03:42:13 <dc_rdfig> titled item I

03:46:01 <edd> eric p describes his rdf database tool suite: and rdf parser, rdf databases, and algae -- a generalized rdf query engien

03:47:42 * sbp notes that Karl has just annotated the same document as I have, at roughly the same time

03:49:52 <edd> in ericp's db, URIs are defined only once.

03:50:00 <edd> then uses inside integer keys to refer to the URIs.

03:50:06 <edd> so gets pretty good compression on repetitive data.

03:51:06 <edd> algae has s-expression syntax:

03:51:41 <edd> (ask '( (URI ?varname ?URI ) ( URI ?var "literal" ):collect '(?doc))

03:52:02 <edd> (umm, no question mark intended on the second isntance of "URI")

03:52:48 <edd> the query language gets trnslated into a graph before processing

03:52:56 <edd> so alternative query syntaxes are possible.

04:00:21 <edd> http://www.w3.org/2001/Talks/0505-perl-RDF-lib/all.htm

04:00:23 <dc_rdfig> J: http://www.w3.org/2001/Talks/0505-perl-RDF-lib/all.htm from edd

04:00:49 <edd> J:|Eric Prud'hommeaux's presentation on RDFdb and Algae

04:00:50 <dc_rdfig> titled item J

04:00:54 * DanC_hk thinks Eric blew away the audience... he sure made me think.

04:01:15 * edd was impressed

04:39:44 * edd notes that its lunchtime, but he's not eating.

04:40:49 * jonb waves

04:41:11 <edd> hey jonb

04:41:25 <jonb> having fun

04:42:16 <edd> yeah

04:42:27 <edd> i just found out that hong kong airport has wireless!

04:42:36 <edd> so i'll be happy while waiting for the plane

04:42:49 <jonb> when are you leaving?

04:43:09 <jonb> wireless as in 802.11b?

04:43:13 <edd> tomorrow, but not until 23:50

04:43:14 <edd> 802, YES.

04:43:19 * edd takes capslock off.

04:43:19 <jonb> cool

05:22:08 <rotceh> rotceh is now known as edd

05:47:37 <edd> eric van der vlist is talking now

05:47:44 <edd> he is introducing RSS 1.0

06:00:32 * RalphS has just been told that the WWW10 DevDay closing plenary has been moved to 30 minutes earlier

06:00:55 <edd> RalphS: might be a good idea to give 10 minutes each to the folk who want to talk about their stuff and axe the panel

06:01:29 <RalphS> I think there are a lot of pent-up questions people want to discuss, so even a 30-minute panel is useful, IMHO

06:01:47 <edd> OK, but I don't think it'll end up being about what I thought it was going to be about.

06:01:54 <edd> What kind of questions do you think are pent-up?

06:02:47 <RalphS> I don't know -- there were hands after DanC's talk and during Jose's talk that didn't get ack'd

06:03:17 <edd> OK... Let's call it a "Q&A" then, I have some seed questions I could use if everyone's quiet :)

06:03:35 <RalphS> Q&A: ok, sorry about your panel plans :(

06:03:43 * edd weeps copiously

06:03:44 * ArtB thinking about possible questions/issues, wonders if Stu Wiebel (sp?) is present ...

06:04:30 <edd> ArtB: if he's not then I'll ask the xml schema/rdf schema ques :)

06:04:30 <ArtB> :-)

06:05:43 * DanC_hk better update his XML schema for RDF real quick before the panel/Q&A session...

06:06:11 * RalphS makes a note on behalf of DanC observing EvdV's use of http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns##li

06:06:18 * ArtB wonder is DanC/Ralph/DanBri should be proactive and just say what the W3C plans ...

06:07:41 <DanC_hk> http://www.w3.org/2001/04rs22/

06:07:41 <dc_rdfig> K: http://www.w3.org/2001/04rs22/ from DanC_hk

06:08:00 <DanC_hk> K:|an XML Schema for (a little bit of) RDF

06:08:01 <dc_rdfig> titled item K

06:08:50 <edd> RalphS: what's the deal w.r.t <li> ?

06:10:07 <edd> http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2001/05/02/semanticwebsite.html

06:10:07 <dc_rdfig> L: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2001/05/02/semanticwebsite.html from edd

06:10:29 <edd> L:|Article version of Eric van der Vlist's presentation on "Building a Semantic Website"

06:10:29 <dc_rdfig> titled item L

06:10:36 <edd> L:As presented today at WWW10

06:10:37 <dc_rdfig> commented item L

06:11:50 <RalphS> "li" is syntactic sugar; it becomes http://www.w3.org/1999/02/220-rdf-syntax-ns#_<n> in a graph. Eric's query processor can interpret it similarly, I s'pose

06:15:03 <edd> RalphS: i knew that about li, i just didn't quite catch why it should be noteworthy that vdV used it...

06:39:41 <edd> dajobe is now presenting the irc logs

06:39:50 <edd> so what i am typing right now will appear on the projector

06:40:08 <edd> my words will appear in RDF/XML

06:56:29 <edd> A participant asks where the logs are kept in XHTML

07:20:45 <ChanServ> Links and more info at: http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/

07:43:22 <DanC_hk> nifty presentation, but note the glitches... ID="room/2" ... / isn't allowed in an ID

07:52:16 <ArtB> http://www.nesstar.org/sdk/neoom.html

07:52:16 <dc_rdfig> M: http://www.nesstar.org/sdk/neoom.html from ArtB

07:52:43 <DanC_hk> http://www.nesstar.org/M_What_Is.shtml

07:52:44 <dc_rdfig> N: http://www.nesstar.org/M_What_Is.shtml from DanC_hk

07:52:52 <DanC_hk> N:|What is NESSTAR?

07:52:52 <dc_rdfig> titled item N

07:53:10 <DanC_hk> N:a guy from NESSTAR just demonstrated web services based on RDF.

07:53:10 <dc_rdfig> commented item N

07:53:12 <ArtB> M:| Objectifying the Web the "light" way: an RDF-based

07:53:12 <dc_rdfig> titled item M

07:53:13 <ArtB> framework for the description of Web objects

07:53:25 <DanC_hk> oops.

07:53:44 <ArtB> m: Poor man's SOAP?

07:53:58 <edd> http://sesame.aidministrator.nl/

07:53:59 <dc_rdfig> O: http://sesame.aidministrator.nl/ from edd

07:54:25 <edd> O:|Sesame, RDF-Schema based querying and repository facility

07:54:25 <dc_rdfig> titled item O

07:55:17 <ArtB> m:Poor Man's SOAP?

07:55:31 <edd> ArtB: use capital 'm'

07:55:40 * ArtB thanks edd!

07:55:48 <ArtB> M:Poor Man's SOAP?

07:55:48 <dc_rdfig> commented item M

08:11:43 <DanC_hk> http://semanticweb2001.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/

08:11:43 <dc_rdfig> P: http://semanticweb2001.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/ from DanC_hk

08:11:53 <DanC_hk> P:|Semantic Web Workshop

08:11:53 <dc_rdfig> titled item P

08:12:11 <DanC_hk> P:you'll find papers about some tools, OIL, integrating services, ...

08:12:11 <dc_rdfig> commented item P

08:16:42 <DanC_hk> http://www.webkb.org/

08:16:42 <dc_rdfig> Q: http://www.webkb.org/ from DanC_hk

08:16:48 <DanC_hk> Q:|WebKB

08:16:48 <dc_rdfig> titled item Q

08:17:07 <DanC_hk> Q:Peter Eklund presented some work with Wordnet

08:17:07 <dc_rdfig> commented item Q

08:17:47 <edd> workshop is over

08:17:49 * edd going away

08:18:05 <DanC_hk> http://www.ilrt.bristol.ac.uk/people/cmdjb/talks/www10-dd/

08:18:05 <dc_rdfig> R: http://www.ilrt.bristol.ac.uk/people/cmdjb/talks/www10-dd/ from DanC_hk

08:18:40 <DanC_hk> R:|Building Semantic Web Applications with Redland

08:18:40 <dc_rdfig> titled item R

08:18:48 <DanC_hk> R:presented by Dave Beckett

08:18:48 <dc_rdfig> commented item R

08:23:06 * DanC_hk packs up...

15:47:00 <GlobalMessage> We shall be rehubbing a number of our servers. This will be quick and painless.

20:35:34 * sbp wonders how to filter out certain terms to noting in N3...

20:35:35 <hundekuchen> hi

20:35:39 <sbp> Hi there

20:36:27 <sbp> { :x = :x } log:implies { } . # doesn't work...

20:38:42 <sbp> { :x = :x } log:implies { <> rdfs:comment "Everything is equal to itself in RDF, just remember that..." } . # :-)

20:39:16 <sbp> or rather, s/<>/this # ?

20:39:20 <hundekuchen> does anyone now sites that offer their news (mainly politics) as RDF?

20:39:39 <sbp> Loads of sites offer news as RSS< whihc is apparently a form of RDF

20:40:15 <hundekuchen> and how can i find out without mailing hundreds of webmasters?

20:40:30 <sbp> There's some info about RSS for a start at: http://blogspace.com/rss/

20:40:43 <sbp> Er... there should be a list of sites that use RSS somewhere... hang on

20:41:06 <sbp> Aha: http://blogspace.com/rss/writers

20:42:49 <hundekuchen> that looks great, thx!

20:43:01 <sbp> O.K., glad it helped :-)

21:30:39 * sbp wonders if cyclic Classes have any *real* use

21:38:03 * sbp wonders if he can use model.n3 to convert contexts to reified statements...

21:41:31 <sbp> { { { :a :b :c } :d :e } log:implies { [ a rdf:Statement; rdf:subject :a; rdf:predicate :b; rdf:object :c ] :d :e } } log:forAll :a , :b , :c , :d , :e .

21:41:57 <sbp> Oh: duh...

21:42:12 <sbp> That's what Aaron was telling me the other day. Hmph

21:43:23 <sbp> cf. http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-contexts

21:44:37 <sbp> Er... maybe I could run that filter on itself... now that would be fun

21:51:23 <sbp> Right, I did this by hand, so I'm not entirely sure... here goes:-

21:51:27 <sbp> [ a rdf:Statement; rdf:subject [ a rdf:Statement; rdf:subject [ a rdf:Statement; rdf:subject :a; rdf:predicate :b; rdf:object :c ]; rdf:predicate :d; rdf:object :e ]; rdf:predicate log:implies; rdf:object [ a rdf:Statement; rdf:subject [ a rdf:Statement; rdf:subject :a; rdf:predicate :b; rdf:object :c ]; rdf:predicate :d; rdf:object :e ] ] log:forAll :a , :b , :c , :d , :e .

21:55:43 <sbp> Hmm... when filtering through CWM, it puts the :d and :e into the anonymous node. Yuck

22:08:06 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Good evening, all. The news is up on http://openprojects.net/news.shtml along with the other OPN project status and philosophy. Please take a look. Have a great evening and an excellent Sunday.

22:10:32 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as sbp

22:59:11 <SeanP> :Boredom :definition """Create a reifying filter, and reify the filter with the filter, producing an output that is akin to :x = :x .""" .

23:00:22 <SeanP> SeanP is now known as sbp

23:00:56 <sbp> :Boredom :example <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2001May/0062> .

23:57:42 <sbp> :Boredom a rdfs:Class . :definition = rdfs:isDefinedBy . :example a rdf:Property .