Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2001-06-11

12:13:24 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Hi, all. Services will be coming back in a moment. There will be a split at the same time. Please bear with us.

12:14:45 <ChanServ> This channel is logged and blogged. See: http://logicerror.com/rdfIRCWelcome

12:15:13 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] That should be it. Thanks much for your patience.

13:29:02 <dajobe> dajobe has changed the topic to: RDF and Semantic Web Chat (home: http://www.w3.org/RDF/Interest/#irc blog: http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/ )

13:41:16 <DanC> ping?

13:41:40 <dajobe> hi

13:41:55 <DanC> ah... ok; it's working. hi.

13:50:12 <DanC> grumble... I'm trying to get structured data out of yahoo... they offer "people search" results in vcard format, but Netscape crashed when I clicked "Add to address book"

13:59:00 <dajobe> http://www1.chi.netlojix.com/cgi-bin/xmlnews2rss.cgi

13:59:01 <dc_rdfig> A: http://www1.chi.netlojix.com/cgi-bin/xmlnews2rss.cgi from dajobe

13:59:13 <dajobe> A:|XMLNews 2 RSS service/script

13:59:13 <dc_rdfig> titled item A

14:01:26 * dajobe is updating the RDF resource guide...

15:03:51 * dajobe adds a substantial RDF Site Summary (RSS)

15:03:51 <dajobe> section to the RDF resource guide - http://www.ilrt.bristol.ac.uk/discovery/rdf/resources/#sec-rss

15:03:54 <dajobe> pha!

15:03:56 <dajobe> pah!

15:13:32 <AaronSw> hmm

16:36:35 <jang> what's with all the digestive noises?

16:37:29 <dajobe> stupid netscape cut-n-paste-extra-newline disgust

18:31:19 <AaronSw> hello kathy

18:31:33 <Kathy> hello Aaron

18:32:22 <AaronSw> do i know you?

18:33:07 <Kathy> I don't think so

18:34:24 <AaronSw> what brings you to rdf?

18:35:06 <Kathy> just lurking tryhing to find out what is the semantic web

18:37:39 <AaronSw> Cool. You may be interested in reading http://logicerror.com/semanticWeb-long and http://infomesh.net/2001/06/swform/

18:38:34 <AaronSw> hi danbri

18:38:54 * danbri waves cheerily in a passing through sort of a way

18:39:30 * AaronSw thinks danbri was just made for MOOs ;-)

18:40:37 <Kathy> thanks aaron, do you work on the semantic web?

18:40:54 <AaronSw> yep

18:41:05 * danbri wonders if Aaron met azaroth here yet...

18:41:28 <AaronSw> yep, just quickly one morning -- syrninnia too

18:41:34 <danbri> :)

18:41:43 <Kathy> is there a browser plugin for it?

18:42:00 * danbri wanted a quick word w/ brian, has to go offline for a bit; back later

18:42:07 <AaronSw> bye, dan

18:42:25 <AaronSw> not yet, Kathy -- we're not really sure how to represent it in a way a browser understands.

18:42:29 <danbri> bye!

18:42:50 <AaronSw> I'm trying to do that a little with my Blogspace project (http://blogspace.com/about/)

18:43:55 <Kathy> so we can't see it yet :(

18:44:30 <AaronSw> no, but you can see smaller versions of it

18:44:38 <AaronSw> most are linked from the bottom of http://infomesh.net/2001/06/swform/

18:45:27 * danbri notices bijan has re-appeared :)

18:45:30 <danbri> back later

18:45:31 <Kathy> oh there just web sites

18:46:14 <AaronSw> no, they're web site interfaces to the semantic web

18:46:38 <AaronSw> underneath it's rather gunky and looks like http://swartzfam.com/aaron/about.xrdf

18:47:42 <Kathy> looks like html

18:48:18 <AaronSw> yep it's close -- it's xml

18:48:18 <Kathy> i can read html but i cant read that

19:04:40 <AaronSw> http://advogato.org/proj/SWAP/

19:04:40 <dc_rdfig> B: http://advogato.org/proj/SWAP/ from AaronSw

19:04:49 <AaronSw> B:|SWAP Advogato Project Page

19:04:50 <dc_rdfig> titled item B

19:05:33 <AaronSw> B:[http://advogato.org/person/aaronsw/|I] was messing around [http://advogato.org/|Advogato] and figured I'd set it up

19:05:34 <dc_rdfig> commented item B

19:06:13 <AaronSw> B:but I can't seem to add [http://advogato.org/person/connolly/|connolly] and tim doesn't seem to have an account

19:06:13 <dc_rdfig> commented item B

19:09:48 <AaronSw> B:this is somewhat related to my evil plans to get the [http://advogato.org/code.html|Advogato code] working as a Semantic Web Web of Trust simulation

19:09:48 <dc_rdfig> commented item B

19:12:27 <Kathy> so what do we get if your evil plans succeed?

19:13:05 <AaronSw> well the problem is that on the Semantic Web, a machine needs to know what it can trust

19:13:27 <AaronSw> this is best done with what's called a "Web of Trust", where people say how much they trust each other

19:13:40 <AaronSw> then we can use that information to decide how much to trust the things they write

19:14:10 <AaronSw> so we end up with things like web servers which decide whether or not to give you access to certain documents, based on how much they trust you

19:14:22 <AaronSw> hi sean! just explaining to kathy about the Semantic Web

19:14:38 <sbp> Cool... Kathy?

19:14:53 <Kathy> yes

19:14:56 <sbp> Oh. Hi Kathy

19:15:20 <Kathy> that doesnt sound evil to me

19:15:46 <AaronSw> yeah, not sure why i said evil there... perhaps too much badvogato ;-)

19:16:25 <Kathy> that must be nurdease for something, huh?

19:17:46 <AaronSw> sort of -- just meant http://badvogato.com/

19:18:12 <sbp> Hmmm, quoth Aaron: "a machine needs to know what it can trust"; not necessarily, I think

19:18:38 <sbp> Most of the quesrites will be done on localized systems, rather than just random "oh, here's an RDF file, do I trust it?"

19:18:40 <AaronSw> well of course not necessarilt

19:19:09 <sbp> Not even in the majority of cases, for the moment at least. In five years time perhaps it will be a different situation

19:19:11 <AaronSw> but for large scale inference operations

19:19:16 <sbp> Yep, agreed

19:20:01 <sbp> So, Kathy, are you still there? What prompted you about the Semantic Web?

19:20:21 <Kathy> oh wild, so now the web pages start to reason

19:20:38 <Kathy> it was in Scientific American

19:20:57 <sbp> Well, they don't reason themselves, but you can use machines to kind-of fake it

19:21:40 <sbp> That's one of the dangers - that they'll become a bit too clever, and it'll take several hours of processing time to find the most trivial of things

19:23:12 <Kathy> oh so the pages wont come in fast like they do when you surf

19:24:04 <sbp> Well, they're not really pages. With the WWW it's all documentations, so you read it. With the SW it'll be information, stuff like meeting times, appointments, medical information, records, and so forth

19:24:17 <sbp> s/documentations/documentation

19:24:42 <Kathy> just booring data?

19:24:56 <sbp> Although, Dan Connolly (an SW developer at the W3C) did a good job of transcribing some meeting minutes into RDF, and then converting that into a normal Web page that you can read

19:25:11 <sbp> Well, fun data too. I converted a whole block of Simpsons quotes into RDF recently :-)

19:26:04 <sbp> See, most of the stuff on Web pages is infoprmation, but usually we just don't realise it

19:26:08 <Kathy> so it talks like Bart?

19:26:38 <Kathy> can i see it?

19:27:11 <sbp> IT doesn't talk like Bart, although I could get it too. Anyhoo, yes you can see it... er hang on a sec

19:27:23 <sbp> What browser are you using? IE5.5, IE6?

19:28:30 <Kathy> ie5 i think

19:28:44 <sbp> Hmm... I'd better give you the long URL just in case...

19:30:09 <sbp> Er, I could sort out a shorter URL if you want

19:31:13 <Kathy> i dont get it, it looks just like a web page to me

19:31:30 <sbp> Yep, that's it... but it's generated from RDF

19:31:49 <sbp> So, you see a list of episode titles, series information,a nd then the quotes, yes?

19:32:04 <Kathy> yes i see that

19:32:36 <Kathy> did the rdf come from Bart?

19:32:46 <sbp> Cool, well the only thing that I typed in was the quote, and then the episode number

19:33:05 <sbp> And then, I merged that with the RDF information about the titles, the season, and so forth. Because I'm lazy like that

19:34:26 <sbp> The RDF didn't come from Bart. I've never met Bart, which is just as well really

19:34:47 <Kathy> bitchin, i get it, it correlated all that data and wrote the web page

19:35:00 <sbp> Yep, that's right

19:35:23 <sbp> The source info is all available as well - at http://infomesh.net/2001/05/simpsons/

19:36:44 <Kathy> i cant figure it out when you guys start talking in the capitol letter stuff

19:37:16 <sbp> Capital letter stuff? WTF?

19:37:25 <AaronSw> LOL ;-)

19:37:59 <Kathy> yeah like that XML XTML SLTM PDQ IN THE PULDER ... stuff like that

19:38:12 <AaronSw> Yeah, I know what you mean

19:38:23 <sbp> RDF - Resources Description Framework (or something like that), XML - Extensible Markup Language, XHTML - Extensible HyperText Markup Language

19:38:48 <sbp> XSLT - Extensible Stlyesheet Language Transformations, er... CWM - Closed World Machine

19:38:53 <Kathy> well lunch is over .. gotta go to class, bye

19:38:58 <sbp> Bye

19:49:36 * jonb waves

19:50:58 <DanC> btw... "closed world machine" is now a misnomer; cwm can read RDF on-the-fly during a query (see the log:resolvesTo code)

19:51:48 * jonb was wondering when people would generally start closing their worlds :-)

19:52:22 <jonb> CWM: come what may?

19:52:22 <dc_rdfig> Label CWM not found.

20:51:34 <lilo> [GlobalNotice] Good evening, all. The news is up on http://openprojects.net/news.shtml along with OPN project philosophy and status. Please take a look. Highlights: New Gelhausen record. Editor still looking for a job. Editor still about to lose his apartment. Erm, have a nice day. Eep.