00:23:00 <urgen> bad net hair day
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03:33:45 <urgen> does anyone know if logger has been released yet?
03:33:51 <AaronSw> yes, it has
03:34:08 <urgen> I was looking around couldn't find it
03:34:29 <AaronSw> cvs.ilrt.org as i recall
03:34:31 <urgen> I shocked myself the other day searching for my favorite search topics and found myself talking on this channel
03:34:34 <urgen> that's kind of cool
03:34:39 <AaronSw> heh
03:37:15 <urgen> hehe does it have a code name?
03:37:46 <AaronSw> logger? it's in http://cvs.ilrt.org/cvsweb/redland/logger/
03:37:54 <urgen> oh redland
03:37:54 <urgen> ok
03:40:35 <urgen> thank you
03:40:45 <AaronSw> no prob
03:54:19 <GabeW> hi urgen
03:57:00 <urgen> *smirk*
03:57:02 <urgen> :-)
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04:56:00 <jonb> http://www.openhealth.org/RDF/RDFSurfaceSyntax
04:56:00 <dc_rdfig> A: http://www.openhealth.org/RDF/RDFSurfaceSyntax from jonb
04:56:31 <jonb> A:|Tree Regular Language Grammar for RDF
04:56:31 <dc_rdfig> titled item A
04:57:48 <jonb> A: [http://www.openhealth.org/RDF/RDF1.rng|RDF 1.0] grammar
04:57:48 <dc_rdfig> commented item A
04:58:20 <jonb> A: [http://www.openhealth.org/RDF/RDF.rng|simplified RDF syntax] grammar
04:58:21 <dc_rdfig> commented item A
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10:20:05 <libby> http://www.elpub.org/analytic06.htm
10:20:06 <dc_rdfig> B: http://www.elpub.org/analytic06.htm from libby
10:20:19 <libby> B:|El.pub Analytic Issue Number 6
10:20:20 <dc_rdfig> titled item B
10:20:33 <libby> B: The semantic web - will it work?
10:20:33 <dc_rdfig> commented item B
10:23:08 <libby> B: by Geoffrey Stephenson of Knowledge Exchange Technologies
10:23:09 <dc_rdfig> commented item B
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10:53:18 <libby> http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/calendar/links/index.rss
10:53:19 <dc_rdfig> C: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/calendar/links/index.rss from libby
10:53:46 <libby> C:| Gigantic RSS 1.0 channel for RDF calendar taskforce links
10:53:46 <dc_rdfig> titled item C
10:54:10 <libby> C: links also available as html: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/calendar/links/index.html
10:54:11 <dc_rdfig> commented item C
10:54:29 <libby> C: idea nicked off this excellent chump
10:54:29 <dc_rdfig> commented item C
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12:54:17 <jonb-gk> * jonb-gk waves
12:55:00 <sandro> * sandro waves
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16:09:20 <AaronSw> grr, cable modem was down
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17:36:21 <AaronSw> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2000Mar/0101.html
17:36:21 <dc_rdfig> D: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2000Mar/0101.html from AaronSw
17:36:30 <AaronSw> D:|DMOZ Cleaner
17:36:30 <dc_rdfig> titled item D
17:36:42 <AaronSw> D:a series of sed scripts to clean up the DMOZ dumps
17:36:42 <dc_rdfig> commented item D
17:36:47 <AaronSw> D: by Sergey Melnik
17:36:47 <dc_rdfig> commented item D
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20:23:18 <AaronSw> grr, my email is down - if anyone is trying to send email to me, send it to aswartz@swartzfam.com
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21:31:45 <lasDesk> anyone home here?
21:32:20 <danbri> * danbri waves at las
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21:34:37 <AaronSw> * AaronSw waves to everybody
21:35:03 <sbp> * sbp waves back
21:36:09 <sbp> It's annoying that it's not possible to map from QName to QName in RDF, but what if there were some kind of new list of predicates to let you do that? [ a :QName; :namespace "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; :name "title"; :role :Attribute ] . ?
21:36:43 <AaronSw> You mean like mvcb:prefix
21:36:58 <sbp> Well, like that... TimBL also came up with :namespace, and I have that in the URI terms that we did
21:37:04 <AaronSw> URI terms?
21:37:33 <sbp> We should take this... oh, I mean, the URI Terms that we came up with at SWAG
21:38:01 <AaronSw> we came up with uri terms? uri?
21:38:16 <sbp> - http://purl.org/swag/uriterms I guess
21:39:06 <AaronSw> you did :hasNamespace which is for "a certain piece of code"
21:39:33 <AaronSw> i think we need something broader
21:39:38 <sbp> Ah, yes. I agree
21:40:01 <sbp> We need to be able to express that such and such a URI is part of a QName, and follows this particular role
21:40:13 <sbp> Jon recently came up with aboutQ and resourceQ
21:40:39 <sbp> But I'm not too certain how they would work: how do you specify <title> over title=""
21:40:43 <AaronSw> why is the role of a QName important to the model?
21:41:11 <sbp> Because the QName is an object, an important first class object that cannot be referred to in the terms we have classically in RDF
21:43:01 <AaronSw> ok, but why does it matter if it's used as an element or attribute?
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21:43:46 <sbp> Because the definitions are different. Refer to the appendices in the XMLNS specification
21:43:54 <sbp> <title> != title=""
21:44:12 <AaronSw> wait, are we talking about xml in general or just in rdf?
21:44:57 <sbp> We are talking about referring to QNames as they are implemented in XML, in RDF
21:45:28 <AaronSw> so why would you want to talk about <title> vs title="" -- they both are equivalent triples
21:46:13 <sbp> No, they're not. When referring to the semantics of <title>, that is a different set of semantics to title="" they are different QNames in that sense
21:46:32 <AaronSw> not according to rdf
21:46:39 <sbp> If you refer to http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xml-names-19990114/#ns-expnames you'll see the definitions that are made, although this is a non-normative section to XMLNS
21:46:58 <sbp> I'm talking about referring to XML QNames in RDF. Not RDF itself - RDF itself uses concetenation; fine
21:47:14 <AaronSw> ok, that makes more sense
21:47:17 <sbp> I'm saying that we can model XML QNames, if we just invent a few predicates; and that is all that we need to do
21:47:43 <AaronSw> you can model most anything...
21:47:51 <AaronSw> so is this leading up to rdf-based xml schemas?
21:48:23 <sbp> This is leading up to be able to refer to anything which has a QName, but no traditional URI. The XSD specification is the only spec. fromt he W3C which defines both QNames and URIs
21:48:50 <sbp> Stuff like SVG, MathML, XHTML and so on have useful semantics, but no URIs to refer to, only the QNames
21:49:27 <AaronSw> but often, the QNames are context-sensitive
21:49:40 <sbp> While I sent a note to www-html@w3.org asking fro URIs to refr to the XHTML QNames, I have a feling that no one was listening. At any rate, not everyone is going to make referrable URIs out of their QNames. That's the point
21:50:01 <sbp> QNames should have well defined contexts, otherwise they're just as pointless as a URI without a definition
21:50:43 <AaronSw> that's my point
21:51:02 <sbp> Well, for example, going back to XHTML title...
21:51:06 <AaronSw> people don't think of Qnames (and sometimes even URIs) as things that should have definitions
21:51:20 <sbp> We can use the following anonymous node to refer to <title>
21:52:11 <sbp> [ a :ExpEType; :type "title"; :ns "http://www.w3.org/1999/title" ] .
21:52:51 <sbp> s//title//xhtml
21:52:58 <AaronSw> ahh
21:53:02 <AaronSw> what's an ExpEType?
21:53:15 <sbp> expanded element type
21:53:55 <AaronSw> so why would you refer to title?
21:56:00 <danbri> * danbri waves, heads off in pursuit of an evening...
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21:56:49 <sbp> Why would you refer to <title>? Say you come up with a new langauge, that has a <label> element, that has exactly the same role as <xhtml:title>
21:57:18 <sbp> [ a :ExpEType; :type "label"; :ns "http://example.org/#" ] daml:equivalentTo [ a :ExpEType; :type "title"; :ns "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" ] .
22:04:01 <sbp> So the following XML:-
22:04:01 <sbp>  <section xmlns="urn:com:books-r-us">
22:04:02 <sbp>    <title>Book-Signing Event</title>
22:04:02 <sbp>    <signing>
22:04:02 <sbp>      <author title="Mr" name="Vikram Seth" />
22:04:02 <sbp>      <book title="A Suitable Boy" price="$22.95" />
22:04:04 <sbp>    </signing>
22:04:06 <sbp>   </section> 
22:04:12 <sbp> Has the following QNames:-
22:04:14 <sbp> [ a :ExpEType; :type "section"; :ns "urn:com:books-r-us" ] . 
22:04:14 <sbp> [ a :ExpEType; :type "title"; :ns "urn:com:books-r-us" ] .
22:04:16 <sbp> [ a :ExpEType; :type "signing"; :ns "urn:com:books-r-us" ] .
22:04:18 <sbp> [ a :ExpEType; :type "author"; :ns "urn:com:books-r-us" ] .  
22:04:20 <sbp> [ a :ExpAName; :name "title"; :eltype "author"; :elns "urn:com:books-r-us" ] .
22:04:22 <sbp> [ a :ExpAName; :name "name"; :eltype "author"; :elns "urn:com:books-r-us" ] .
22:04:24 <sbp> [ a :ExpEType; :type "book"; :ns "urn:com:books-r-us" ] . 
22:04:26 <sbp> [ a :ExpAName; :name "title"; :eltype "book"; :elns "urn:com:books-r-us" ] .
22:04:28 <sbp> [ a :ExpAName; :name "price"; :eltype "book"; :elns "urn:com:books-r-us" ] .
22:06:50 <sbp> Dunno what URIs to use for @prefix : <?> . though
22:07:41 <sbp> The XMLNS specification doesn't give one... duh
22:08:59 <sbp> Hmm... and this must have been discussed before. Better research it
22:12:11 <sbp> Heh! Quid quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
22:12:24 <sbp> From http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2000Jul/0046
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