Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2002-01-16

03:18:08 <bijan> From the RSS1.0 Spec:

03:18:12 <bijan> """Note that items appearing in the document but not as members of the channel level items sequence are likely to be discarded by RDF parsers."""

03:18:26 <bijan> Er...this seems so daft I feel I must be confused.

03:18:31 <sbp> lol

03:18:35 <bijan> (Section 5.3.5)

03:18:56 <bijan> sean, I'm right that if there ever was such an rdf *parser* it should be taken out and shot twice.

03:19:37 <sbp> indeed

03:32:21 <AaronSw> i'd like to send my condolences to rBijan, who is clearly going thru a hard t ime in his life. he just read the rss 1.0 spec.

03:33:27 <bijan> Heh.

03:33:29 <bijan> Hi aaron.

03:33:35 <AaronSw> hi there

03:33:43 <bijan> Yes, I'm bitter :_)

05:41:17 <tav> tav is now known as this-channel-sux

05:41:22 <this-channel-sux> this-channel-sux is now known as tav

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14:20:27 * michael_ digests Mr. Stickler's documents.....

14:24:26 <michael_> has anyone else read them?

14:31:00 <dajobe> just skimmed a couple

14:31:42 <michael_> your impression?

14:31:57 <michael_> I'm responding to 'em all now....

14:32:00 <dajobe> on the range of useful ..... mad ?

14:32:08 <michael_> yea....

14:32:36 <michael_> 1 being useful and 10 being lunacy of the worst kind

14:32:58 <dajobe> They are tending towards larger numbers

14:33:18 <dajobe> I'd prefer to see some apps that required them

14:33:20 <michael_> I'm specifically curious what the RDF guys here think of the reification scheme. (poor choice of scheme name though)

14:34:38 <michael_> as well as Dan's take on the 'xmlns' scheme... (although I could probably figure out Dan's response on my own. ;-)

14:35:14 <dajobe> the reif*n word is rather a red flag

14:35:22 <dajobe> that is, dangerous and confusing

14:36:06 <michael_> I had a feeling it wasn't as clear a concept as he made it sound....

14:36:24 <dajobe> it isn't; from what I've seen of the arguments

14:36:30 <michael_> when I was on the RDF Schema WG I remember lots of discussion about it...

14:36:44 * dajobe assuming michael_ = M. Mealing

14:37:07 <michael_> yea... sorry....

14:37:33 <dajobe>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Jan/0127.html

14:37:33 <dc_rdfig> A: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Jan/0127.html from dajobe

14:37:33 <michael_> michael_ is now known as MIkeM

14:37:34 <dajobe> A:|Some recent Internet Drafts relating to RDF/KR/SW/etc.

14:37:34 <dc_rdfig> titled item A

14:37:45 <dajobe> A:by Patrick Stickler, Nokia Research

14:37:45 <dc_rdfig> commented item A

14:38:23 <dajobe> is there such a demand to talk about (URIs, qnames, xml ns, ...) that they need URI schems?

14:38:45 <dajobe> although, there have been discussions here of such things, uses for URI schem registry etc.

14:39:48 <MIkeM> that's what I was thinking. It seems that if RDF can't make those kind of statements internal to itself then its broken... most of those schemes seemed like RDF shortcuts more than anything.

14:40:41 <MIkeM> scheme registry?

14:40:41 <dajobe> A:[http://www.w3.org/Addressing/schemes|Addressing schemes] by Dan Connolly, autogenerated from RDF/n3

14:40:41 <dc_rdfig> commented item A

14:40:41 <MIkeM> ahhh... yes, that....

14:41:45 * dajobe bad for using registry word near W3C :)

14:41:45 * MIkeM just requested the IANA setup an XML,RDF registry/repository....

14:41:45 <dajobe> re: RDF using that; well it can't since those things I mentioned above don't have uRIs. Hence what patrick's doing

14:41:45 <dajobe> I guess

14:41:53 <MIkeM> you mean each of the schemes doesn't have a URI?

14:43:07 <dajobe> nah, I mean RDF can't talk about things without URIs - XML qnames and so on. Patricks URIs schemes make such things into uri

14:43:42 <dajobe> repository: interesting

14:44:08 <MIkeM> ahhh....

14:44:08 <dajobe> DanC mentioned scraping ietf sites for some other thing, recently (RFCs??)

14:44:08 <MIkeM> now I get the need.... its an internal referencing method....

14:46:49 <MIkeM> well, there's xml.resource.org which has all of the RFCs in XML (complete with bibliographies in XML)

14:46:49 <dajobe> its the rfcIndex -> rdf/n3 I think

14:46:49 <MIkeM> the IETF started having lots of proposals that had xml namespaces and such so we decided our own little repository with a stable namespace was a good thing...

14:46:49 <MIkeM> makes sense...

14:46:49 <dajobe> MIkeM: stable, yeah

14:46:49 <dajobe> would be nice to have URIs for IMT/Mime Types

14:47:53 <MIkeM> and as soon as the DDDS documents come out you'll be able to resolve 'urn:ietf:params:xml:foo' into 'http://foo.org/bla/bla/bla' reliably...

14:47:53 <dajobe> nice

14:47:53 <MIkeM> that's part of the urn scheme we set up... as in 'urn:ietf:params:mime:content-types:text-plain'

14:48:19 <dajobe> can't find the link explaining http://www.w3.org/2001/02pd/rfc-index-scraped.n3

14:48:39 <dajobe> aha

14:48:48 <dajobe> A:[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2001Jul/0000.html|RFC Index in RDF/xml]

14:48:52 <dc_rdfig> commented item A

14:49:31 <dajobe> maybe some of Patricks stuff would be best under urn:

14:49:53 <MIkeM> you know what would be nice: if you could standardize scraping so that you could register with a page and have it send you diff's so you could get an event driven scraping instead of a poling it....

14:49:53 <dajobe> since they are identifiers rather than have any more machinery behind them

14:50:15 <MIkeM> I think so.... but no sure... most all of 'em have domain-names in them so that wouldn't qualify 'em....

14:51:38 <dajobe> Scraping Exchange: http://www.jmason.org/scraping/

14:52:10 <dajobe> MIkeM: true

14:52:10 <MIkeM> hehe.... so someone already did it?

14:52:26 <dajobe> possibly, just grepped that from logs

14:52:38 * dajobe gotta go

14:53:12 <dajobe> good to talk^wtype

14:53:12 <MIkeM> cya

14:57:33 <tav>http://www.jmason.org/scraping/

14:59:09 <dc_rdfig> B: http://www.jmason.org/scraping/ from tav

14:59:09 <tav> hmz

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16:08:02 Topic now Semanticize the Enterprise! http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/

16:08:02 Users on #rdfig: logger rreck shellac larsbot Skyline xena grove connolly eikeon gerald lasDesk1 mnot sandro dmiles chaals tav bijan deltab dc_rdfig em MarkB jang timmmit

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16:08:31 <sandro> Has there been any progress on unicode-handling in N-Triples? Is the WG going to settle this?

16:27:16 <chaals> scraping: there are plenty of "tell me if this page has changed" services. Getting your scraper to register with them should do it, no?

16:27:46 <MIkeM> well, yea... but I was looking for something more standardized... like sending diffs or something.....

16:28:01 <MIkeM> but then, if you're doing to do that just setup a web service....

16:35:00 <dajobe> sandro: unicode for N-triples, no progress. Got to sort out some i18 issues for rdf/xml too

16:35:48 <dajobe> e.g. value of RDF ID attribute (same as XML ID - unknown), versus value of RDF about, which is ASCII-ified URI (mutter)

17:01:14 <MIkeM> man, I thought finding a graph showing AOL membership growth would be easy to find.....

20:16:23 * MIkeM blinks

20:25:15 <dot_> dot_ is now known as dot

20:37:51 <rreck> why are you blinking ?

21:00:24 <bijan> Because otherwize one's eyeballs dry out.

21:25:30 <MIkeM> to make sure I'm still connected....

22:50:26 <bijan> Hmm. Any rssers around?

22:50:46 <bijan> Wow, we have more people and less activity than ever! :)

22:51:18 <sbp> Heh, heh

22:52:25 <bijan>http://www.daml.org/ontologies/234

22:52:25 <dc_rdfig> C: http://www.daml.org/ontologies/234 from bijan

22:52:50 <bijan> C:|Someone tell Arron that is RSS1.0 ontology registered with daml.org is broken.

22:52:51 <dc_rdfig> titled item C

22:53:00 <sbp> Heh, heh: "Aaron Swartz of RSS 1.0 Working Group"

22:53:01 <bijan> C: No, "items" property.

22:53:02 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

22:53:06 <sbp> Arron? Who's Arron?

22:53:30 <sbp> I call him A now, to avoid such spelling catastrophies

22:58:54 <bijan> "A now" is pretty hard to type.

23:01:09 <sbp> s/A/"A"/

23:01:50 <danja> A now, as opposed to A doo-run-run (A then)

23:28:04 <danja> sbp - did you get to meet Aaron then?

23:29:14 <sbp> I did indeed

23:29:36 <danja> good-o

23:30:07 <danja> is his hair really as bad as the photos?

23:30:21 <danja> oops [off]!!!

23:31:44 <sbp> Heh. Yeah, my hair is quite nuts sometimes

23:32:39 <danja> did he get a decent cup of tea then?

23:32:46 <dajobe> that comment deservers this: http://lookinside-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35leq9SS0/6r+OjznKfgIqPLiK2XjSMN2zXl517YCu4/rwBtKGR03ERCKDvTLXcmBZwCg=

23:32:58 <dajobe> 2nd from left on top row, right?

23:33:24 <danja> ouch! (yes)

23:33:41 <sbp> heh didn't want tea. He wanted water

23:33:52 <danja> tap?

23:34:35 <sbp> Filtered tap

23:34:44 <danja> for the record : http://www.isacat.net/misc/images/danny1.gif

23:35:03 <sbp> danja: you look spookily like David Baddiel

23:35:10 <dajobe> lol

23:35:12 <danja> filtered by 7 Londoners no doubt...

23:35:36 <danja> ouch2!

23:38:08 <danja> there was some discussion on the '#' in ns:dfg/# a bit back?

23:39:17 <dajobe> ahah

23:39:26 <dajobe> . http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2001/04/23/000068.JPG

23:39:32 <dajobe> on the left: sbp

23:39:46 <AaronSw> man, that is no outfit to blow up the whitehouse in

23:39:47 <sbp> aaaaaargh!

23:40:00 <bijan> Arron, see chump.

23:40:01 <dajobe> . http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2001/08/21/000713.JPG - danbri, sbp co-depicted

23:40:02 * sbp screams and runs around in circles

23:40:25 <bijan> (Spelling from sbp)

23:40:25 * sbp head in hands "oh crud"

23:40:32 <bijan> (Who said that's how you prefer it.)

23:40:39 <dajobe> sbp: lol

23:40:39 <AaronSw> (liar)

23:41:24 <AaronSw> C::RSS 1.0 has no items property.

23:41:24 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

23:41:35 <AaronSw> C::Err, ignore previous statement.

23:41:35 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

23:41:43 <bijan> C: HAHAHAH

23:41:44 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

23:42:10 <sbp> Heh, I look quite risqué in that latter photo

23:42:11 <bijan> C: Plus, you're hung either way, the RDFS schema has an items property

23:42:12 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

23:42:20 <sbp> where's the cool one of me playing pool, I wonder...

23:42:25 <AaronSw> C:It's in the schema, I don't know why DAML didn't pick it up. I guess their crawler is broken.

23:42:25 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

23:42:34 <AaronSw> C:Either way, it is so not my fault.

23:42:35 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

23:42:48 <danja> hehehehe

23:42:49 <dajobe> sbp: libby / danbri didn't annotate them all I guess

23:42:56 <bijan> C: Interesting, though, that your first defensive move was to deny manifest facts :)

23:42:57 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

23:43:33 <AaronSw> C:This is new? You clearly need to spend more time around RSS 1.0.

23:43:33 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

23:43:52 <AaronSw> that is now outfit to blow up the whitehouse in: http://www.isacat.net/misc/images/danny1.gif

23:44:04 <bijan> C: around rss1.0? Or around *you* :)

23:44:05 <dc_rdfig> commented item C

23:44:31 * sbp goes searching

23:44:38 <danja> danbri looks hung either way in that photo...

23:45:04 <sbp> aha: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/photos/2001/10/02/000968.JPG

23:45:16 <danja> sbp looks like the wallpaper eat his stash

23:45:42 <sbp> Heh, heh, heh

23:45:50 <dajobe> sbp: yeah cool, what? :)

23:46:57 <danja> you're on reds, right?

23:47:38 <sbp> yellows

23:47:56 <dajobe> there is a Pool schema somewhere

23:48:08 <dajobe> since DanC and em wanted to arrange games IIRC

23:48:44 <dajobe> used N3 to compute when they could do it

23:48:53 <dajobe> N3 rules that is

23:49:38 <sbp> Yep. They didn't even have the game, though

23:49:45 <danja> seems the bloke under the football pic found your stash, after all...

23:49:54 <dajobe> probably still waiting for cwm to finish :) :)

23:50:25 <sbp> probably in http://www.w3.org/2001/08swws67/

23:50:51 <dajobe> that looks it

23:51:21 <sbp> thanks to http://infomesh.net/2001/07/swad/

23:52:18 <danja> good (but ugly) list!

23:52:56 <sbp> ugly: yeah. I didn't want to spend too much time on it

23:55:16 <danja> aye, I know the feeling

23:55:56 <danja> but at least they're clear, bookmarkable & crawlable

23:56:43 <sbp> Yep. It beats doing obscure Google searches for stuff

23:56:53 <danja> indeedy