Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2002-03-12

00:00:38 <DanCon> DanCon is now known as JustinC

00:01:04 <JustinC> hello

00:01:36 <JustinC> I have the chicken pox.

00:06:02 * AaronSw waves to JustinC

00:06:15 * JustinC waves back

00:06:17 <AaronSw> ugh, chicken pox are no fun

00:06:44 <JustinC> sometimes they are...

00:07:47 <JustinC> AaronSw, where are you?

00:08:02 <AaronSw> I'm near Chicago, IL

00:08:13 <AaronSw> Sorry, gotta run: Dad's calling me to dinner.

00:08:20 <JustinC> bye

00:08:40 <JustinC> JustinC is now known as DanC

00:08:43 * DanC is away: family time

01:08:22 <Galahad> Galahad is now known as xena

01:20:15 <oierw|school> oierw|school is now known as oierw

01:28:24 <Galahad> Galahad is now known as xena

03:04:21 <Talez> hey... do any of you guys know of any win32/palm programs which can take an RDF/RSS feed and turn it into headlines displayed on the desktop?

03:05:15 <danbri__> desktop or palmtop?

03:05:34 <Talez> both if possible... but either will do

03:06:00 <sbp> how about Amphetadesk?

03:06:04 <danbri__> um, there are a few things in that vein, desktops at least.

03:06:11 <sbp> .google Amphetadesk

03:06:12 <xena> Amphetadesk: http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk

03:06:15 <danbri__> that's the one I had in mind but couldn't remember ther name for

03:07:23 <Talez> the palmos RDF parser was something a friend was looking for... he was looking for a palm sized version of kuro5hin.org and I suggested using a palm app to parse the RDF feed

03:44:11 <MarkB> KnowNow does that as one of their demo apps. Not sure if they still distribute it though.

03:45:23 <AaronSw> yeah, you might be able to do it with a very simple RSS->HTML thing and avantgo

04:11:18 <oierw> oierw is now known as oierw|sl-schl

11:01:05 * danbri__ updates Mozilla to .99, notices http://jibbering.com/2002/3/imgmap.svg dialog boxes now show floating points in the paths, and the confirm dialog is six times width of screen!

11:01:05 <danbri__> seems faster though :)

11:01:49 <danbri__> logger, grep thingy

11:02:39 <logger> I'm logging. I found 184 answers for 'thingy' (showing 0...4)

11:02:40 <logger> 0) 2002-03-12 11:01:49 <danbri__> logger, grep thingy

11:02:41 <logger> 1) 2002-03-11 13:13:35 <danbri> oops, missed a thingy

11:02:42 <logger> 2) 2002-03-11 00:41:54 <danbri> what's the vb thingy?

11:02:43 <logger> 3) 2002-03-11 00:40:55 <danbri> any reason not to chump it into the irc weblog thingy?

11:02:44 <logger> 4) 2002-03-08 05:11:46 <AaronSw> at least in the client thingy

11:02:45 <dajobe> be patient...

11:02:45 <danbri__> It's not grep at all, is it?

11:02:45 <dajobe> logger, hello

11:02:45 * danbri__ pictures dave trawling the his printouts of the log with a red pen

11:02:45 <dajobe> see, it got there

11:02:53 <danbri__> note to self: stop saying thingy

11:03:00 <dajobe> grep speedup is #1 to-fix thing

11:03:11 * danbri__ looking for the soap thingy

11:03:29 <danbri__> hey, mozilla's usable! wohoo!

11:03:47 <dajobe> I told you recently got v.goof

11:03:50 <dajobe> heh

11:04:14 <danbri__> and filetree hierarchy gets reflected into the bookmarks system :)

11:05:03 <danbri__>http://jibbering.com/2002/3/soapything.svg

11:05:04 <dc_rdfig> A: http://jibbering.com/2002/3/soapything.svg from danbri__

11:05:18 <danbri__> A:|A SOAP Encoding graph as RDF as SVG

11:05:19 <dc_rdfig> titled item A

11:17:20 <danbri__> has anyone got a link to that nutty business week SemWeb article that came out recently? I can't get past their subscriber pages, but I know there's a copy online somewhere.

11:19:13 <dajobe> . http://www.businessweek.com/print/premium/content/02_09/b3772108.htm?mainwindow

11:19:40 * dajobe lol again

11:20:16 * dajobe LOL further

11:23:17 <dajobe> this article is very funny

11:23:46 <danbri__>http://www.businessweek.com/print/premium/content/02_09/b3772108.htm?mainwindow

11:23:46 <dc_rdfig> B: http://www.businessweek.com/print/premium/content/02_09/b3772108.htm?mainwindow from danbri__

11:23:59 <danbri__> B:|Possibly the worst article on Semantic Web I've ever read.

11:23:59 <dc_rdfig> titled item B

11:24:01 <danbri__> B:Ever!

11:24:02 <dc_rdfig> added comment B1

11:24:32 <dajobe> B:oh yes

11:24:32 <dc_rdfig> added comment B2

11:29:57 <dajobe> B:so my dilemma is, do I cite this in my RDF guide, and if so how?

11:29:57 <dc_rdfig> added comment B3

11:42:11 <danbri__> hey charlie

12:06:15 <chaals> hi dan

12:29:26 * chaals waves to everyone ;-)

15:01:02 <AaronSw> B:I'm very happy that businessweek came out with such a positive and accurate article. Even going so far as to invent cute sidebar characters for us, such as Binary Man!

15:01:02 <dc_rdfig> added comment B4

15:25:08 <bijan> B:Accurate? Ah, "such an accurate" is compatible with *any* degree of accuracy. My conclusion, then, is that Aaron can be made happy with a very *low* degree of accuracy :)

15:25:08 <dc_rdfig> added comment B5

15:25:21 <AaronSw> :-)

15:25:28 <AaronSw> extremely low

15:25:44 <bijan> B:Just one example, from the subhead: "By 2005, Tim Berners-Lee aims to be replacing it with the Semantic Web, which will understand human language

15:25:45 <dc_rdfig> added comment B6

15:26:26 <AaronSw> B:And you thought the SW was AI... ;-)

15:26:26 <dc_rdfig> added comment B7

15:26:27 <bijan> B:I dearly hope that that statement is false of TBL!

15:26:28 <dc_rdfig> added comment B8

15:26:50 <bijan> B: Well, I *said* that it was, but I never said anything goofy about Global Brains!

15:26:50 <dc_rdfig> added comment B9

15:27:07 <AaronSw> .google bijan global brain

15:27:07 <xena> bijan global brain: http://austin-astd.org/consultant_db/organizational_development.html

15:27:18 <AaronSw> .google "bijan parsia" global brain

15:27:18 <xena> "bijan parsia" global brain: http://monkeyfist.com/articles/804

15:27:39 <AaronSw> .google "bijan parsia" "global brain"

15:27:40 <xena> no results found.

15:27:43 <AaronSw> pf

15:30:21 <bijan> I am *perfectly* safe on this issue.

15:32:35 <AaronSw> B:<bijan> B:I *said* that it was [...] about Global Brains!

15:32:35 <dc_rdfig> added comment B10

15:34:10 <bijan> B:Hmm. Aaron's tolerance for low accuracy waxes into *enthusiasm*.

15:34:10 <dc_rdfig> added comment B11

15:34:34 <AaronSw> See, with the Semantic Web, we'll never have to worry about that problem again

15:34:42 <bijan> Just use HumanML

15:35:11 <AaronSw> HumanML is based up on the Semantic Web's impressive AI powers

15:36:02 <bijan> <insult>Aaron</insult>, <total_lie>So <horkhere>good</horkhere> to see you <inhead>fall into a flaming pile of global brain dung</inhead>!

15:36:14 <bijan> Oops.

15:36:25 * AaronSw giggles. inhead?

15:36:27 <bijan> Put a close tag on that <total_lie> before the <inhead>

15:36:33 <bijan> unvoiced?

15:36:37 <AaronSw> aha.

15:37:31 <bijan> Hmm. Is there a straigforward way to set the text of a field in a form in a window my javascript just opened?

15:38:10 <AaronSw> are you writing the HTML for the form?

15:38:16 <bijan> Yes.

15:38:22 <bijan> but I don't want to modify it.

15:38:35 <JibberJim> javascript bookmarklet?

15:38:39 <bijan> So I have one window, it opens the form, and I want it to put in a default into a field.

15:38:40 <AaronSw> you want the javascript to modify it?

15:38:56 <bijan> put in the default when it opens the form.

15:39:29 <JibberJim> windowref=window.open();setTimeout("windowref.document.forms['formname'].elements['name'].value='chicken'",8000);

15:39:48 <JibberJim> remember cross domain security and the 8000 is an arbitrary timeout.

15:40:14 * bijan will try

15:40:50 <JibberJim> windowref will need to be a global variable

15:41:11 <bijan> Can I use my windows name?

15:41:38 <JibberJim> no, but you can get a reference to the window with an appropriate name with ref=window.open('','name')

15:41:56 * chaals forgets how to ask the chumpbot if bijan mentioned "global brain" recently...

15:42:08 <bijan> Ah.

15:43:18 <chaals> <input type="text" value="chicken" name="this.was.a.silly.example" size="2">

15:43:40 <bijan> That doesn't do it dynamically and requires altering the form.

15:44:05 <chaals> ah.

15:44:24 * chaals uderstands the comment about "my javascript just opened" now

15:44:36 <chaals> .google chaals brain

15:44:38 <xena> chaals brain: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2001-12-18.txt&e=42

15:44:47 <bijan> Hmm. It works then blanks out the supplied value :)

15:45:08 <oierw|sl-schl> oierw|sl-schl is now known as oierw

15:45:18 <bijan> But this is much closer than I'd gotten so far. Thanks!

15:45:20 <dajobe> lol

15:45:38 <JibberJim> If you've got a url, I'll have a look.

15:46:54 <bijan> Afraid not, however much I'd like to :)

15:49:26 <bijan> Getting closer. I seem to be confused about how to open a link only in a new window. Which is scary, I guess :)

15:50:14 <JibberJim> - http://jibbering.com/2002/3/open.html

15:50:29 <JibberJim> if any window has the name you set, it will re-use that window...

15:50:49 <bijan> That's fine.

15:51:36 <bijan> My problem seems to be that the a tag is opening the link as well as the window.open

15:52:13 <bijan> With the window.open going first, so it overrides the set value.

15:52:22 <JibberJim> <a href="pageyouwanttoopen.html" onclick="this.target='win'; yourref=window.open('','win')">

15:52:57 <JibberJim> (or return false from the onclick event, but that's bad...)

15:58:24 <bijan> Nope.

15:58:41 <bijan> Oh well.

15:59:43 <JibberJim> if you can get me the script you use... or describe what you want, it's pretty simple.

16:00:05 <DanC> B:[errata|http://www.w3.org/2002/02/bw-errata.html] from TimBL

16:00:06 <dc_rdfig> added comment B12

16:01:46 <AaronSw> 401 http://www.w3.org/2002/02/bw-errata.html

16:01:54 <bijan> I have a list of urls to be catalogged. I want to make a list of these urls such that clicking on any item in the list opens a window on the form with certain default items filled it (like the cataloger id)

16:02:15 <DanC> 401... hmm...

16:03:25 * bijan notes that it's *not* _pretty_ simple, for several values of "pretty" and of "simple" :)

16:03:47 <oierw> oierw is now known as oierw|school

16:04:08 <DanC> B:oops... errata is not released.

16:04:09 <dc_rdfig> added comment B13

16:05:28 <JibberJim> Bijan, something like http://jibbering.com/2002/3/open.html is now?

16:05:43 <dajobe> DanC: you can delete if it is embargoed with B12:""

16:06:02 <DanC> B12:""

16:06:02 <dc_rdfig> deleted comment B12

16:06:14 <DanC> B13:""

16:06:14 <dc_rdfig> Comment B13 not found

16:06:19 <DanC> B12:""

16:06:19 <dc_rdfig> deleted comment B12

16:07:09 <bijan> Hmm. Yes. SOmethin glike.

16:07:33 <bijan> Really needs a function, eh.

16:07:40 <JibberJim> doesn't need one..

16:08:16 <JibberJim> That really needs slight protection against the page not opening and therefore getting errors, but most people don't think about javascript the same as me.

16:12:54 <bijan> Hmm. I can't get it to work. I'm giving up for now. Thanks for your valient efforts though!

16:15:23 * JibberJim spends more time on javascript than RDF...

16:16:08 <bijan> Well, I do have an abiding hatred and disgust for Javascript, so I'm not exactly the best pupil :)

18:33:37 <dajobe> hmm, missing a whole bunch of w3c mail. Catching up by reading mail archive

18:39:31 <AaronSw> Hm, you can add money to people's phone bills via POST

18:40:07 <mnot> eh?

18:40:17 <JibberJim> surely that's a PUT ?

18:40:37 <AaronSw> no, POST...

18:40:42 <AaronSw> http://www.msg.myvzw.com/servlet/SmsServlet

18:41:00 <mnot> heh

18:41:27 <mnot> I'd say POST is appropriate... you're not replacing their bill, you're adding to it ;)

18:41:32 <JibberJim> Surely that's only in silly places where people pay for receiving messages...

18:41:34 <sbp> this looks like a job for... "while 1"!

18:41:48 <AaronSw> morning sbp

18:41:55 <AaronSw> it's a good thing you don't know our phone number ;-)

18:41:56 <sbp> 'evening

18:41:57 <mnot> ah... the statement that works for good *or* evil...

18:42:02 <sbp> heh, heh

18:42:30 <sbp> mnot: what, "morning sbp"? :-)

18:42:43 <mnot> no, 'while 1'

18:43:33 <mnot> sbp probably works for both as well, tho...

18:43:36 <JibberJim> "morning sbp" is pure evil.

18:43:37 * sbp hasn't found a "good" use yet :-)

18:43:47 <mnot> if there's money in it?

18:44:34 <AaronSw> sbp, pay-per-impression advertising!

18:44:47 <AaronSw> oh, i guess that's evil too.

18:44:53 <sbp> heh, exactly

18:45:06 <mnot> opt-in pay-per-impression advertising

18:45:10 <AaronSw> well, the webserver I wrote for PyChord uses while 1

18:45:24 <AaronSw> actually it's in the python stdlib

18:45:27 <sbp> as does Eep. I have to wonder about our programming ethics

18:45:36 <AaronSw> it has a comment like "Serve requests from now until doomsday!"

18:46:05 <sbp> opt-in is borderline, I guess... :-)

18:46:17 * sbp had to think about it

18:46:33 <AaronSw> it's still evil if you're the one who has to pay

18:47:18 <mnot> Hey, if you want to throw your money away, who's to stop you?

18:47:34 <AaronSw> No, I mean if someone else is doing it to you.

18:47:46 <AaronSw> Hey, that's a good way to get rid of those lilofree ads!

18:55:50 <AaronSw> i hate it when i do that

19:08:01 <AaronSw> Woo, flight to honolulu is all set

19:09:12 <AaronSw> and Someone Else is paying for it

19:22:41 <mnot> lucky! ;)

19:40:35 * chaals envies Aaron (and still hasn't got a flight, but will have to pay for it...

19:41:21 <AaronSw> Having a job that pays you to fly places is cool.

19:41:55 * dajobe also booked WWW2002 flight today

19:42:53 <AaronSw> I think we should have a WG get together or something

19:43:04 <AaronSw> if we're not already

19:47:03 <dajobe> no formal meeting AFAIK

19:48:44 * dajobe fights to make the inbox smaller

19:48:47 <dajobe> hmm

19:49:03 <dajobe> AaronSw: re logger patches; I don't use the HTML output, not sure why you changed to <DL>

19:49:12 <dajobe> AaronSw: re usage; thanks, will do

19:49:19 <AaronSw> i changed from dl

19:49:29 <AaronSw> since dl was annoying with two lines and all

19:49:31 <dajobe> right

19:49:37 <dajobe> that's why I don't use that form!

19:49:52 <dajobe> but you said "no easy ways to get fragment"

19:49:54 <dajobe> ?

19:50:09 <dajobe> and your patch deleted the link to the fragment

19:50:20 <AaronSw> I made the time a link to "#T02-42-5-1" or whatever

19:50:22 <dajobe> can I see this on the swhack logs?

19:50:37 <AaronSw> sure, just a sec...

19:51:00 <dajobe> pick a date?

19:51:05 <AaronSw> it's towards the bottom of: http://semplesh.com/chatlogs/2002-03-12

19:51:07 <AaronSw> err .html

19:51:21 <AaronSw> but since i transitioned in the middle of a day, the CSS is broken

19:51:34 <dajobe> ah - nice

19:51:40 <dajobe> I was gonna change #rdfig chat log html to that form

19:51:58 <dajobe> mebb make dates smaller actually and nicks more prominent (bolder?)

19:52:06 <AaronSw> that'd be cool

19:52:24 <dajobe> rest seems straightforward

19:57:16 <dajobe> hmm, semplesh

19:57:30 <dajobe> formerly plex?

20:11:27 <dajobe> anyone know a better way to get a single space in xslt output; rather than <xsl:text> </xsl:text>

20:14:01 <jonb> dajobe: &nbsp; ?

20:14:20 <dajobe> new style: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2002-03-12.html

20:14:56 <dajobe> no, I want a real space

20:15:13 <dajobe> above is 160 decimal?

20:15:18 <jonb> i hear the new XQuery formalism is finally due for appearance

20:15:45 <jonb> which is said to contain something akin to the non-XML RELAXNG language

20:15:56 <ssyreeni> isn't it &#x20;?

20:16:05 <dajobe> I tried ~&#32;

20:16:20 <jonb> so you will have a _real_ W3C language to specify the RDF XML syntax in...

20:16:32 <AaronSw> mm, that looks good dajobe

20:16:57 * dajobe just using mozilla; need to check other browsers

20:17:11 <AaronSw> is there a mod_xslt for apapche?

20:17:15 <ssyreeni> &#32; should do the same thing. If that doesn't work, your processor is likely stripping the node.

20:17:27 <dajobe> there is something server side; tried AxKit, never got it working

20:17:31 * jonb likes the new look

20:17:49 * dajobe trying &#x20;

20:18:43 <dajobe> nah, not with this xslt parser; sablotron

20:18:48 <dajobe> s/parser/thingy/

20:18:49 <dajobe> :)

20:19:07 <dajobe> jonb: re xml syntaxes for RDF

20:19:10 <ssyreeni> nice.

20:19:11 <dajobe> in executive summary: to late

20:19:13 <dajobe> too late

20:19:22 <jonb> sigh

20:19:42 <ssyreeni> does anybody happen to have a commented FOAF instance handy?

20:19:44 <dajobe> RDF Core WG is 1 year old and has to close, publish

20:19:45 * jonb looking toward RDF 2

20:20:14 <dajobe> well, the quicker we get this done, the earlier such things will happen

20:20:33 * ssyreeni is having trouble with the serialization syntax.

20:20:35 <dajobe> hmm

20:20:40 * ssyreeni likes the data model much better.

20:20:41 <dajobe> wonder if google will mess up with that new HTML format

20:20:56 <dajobe> given sabolotron dumps it all in a mess

20:21:05 * jonb would prefer to base OWL on RDF 2 but no such luck

20:22:22 <jonb> yeah well in any case, I find the non-XML syntax the easiest for my human eyes to read

20:22:22 <dajobe> ssyreeni: FOAF - you mean http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/ - see http://rdfweb.org/ for some instance data, might be comments in them

20:22:35 <dajobe> hence use of relaxng in syntax WD

20:22:58 <ssyreeni> dajobe: aye. found the spec, but didn't manage to find instances. I'll have to look more closely.

20:23:12 <jonb> yep. but you will be able to call it "XQuery type language" or something akin

20:23:31 <jonb> because the non-XML syntax is not really part of RELAXNG

20:23:34 <jonb> yet

20:23:54 <dajobe> so; the relaxng in the WD is not really part of the doc, it's an inform. appendix

20:24:41 <jonb> fair enough.

20:24:53 <dajobe> or I should say; at present :)

20:25:04 <jonb> :-)

20:25:53 <dajobe> ssyreeni: you could ask danbri_ (or libby ) about foaf stuff, if/when they turn up

20:26:24 <ssyreeni> indeed. that's the main reason I popped up, today. ;9

20:28:11 <chaals> ssyreeni, if you go to the [generate RDF for codepiction|http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/rweb/imgmeta] page and fill out the form it will give back some instance data... (not just FOAF, also some DC and other stuff)

20:28:32 <chaals> (and that way if you store and submit it we get another codepiction ;-)

20:30:08 <SethR> new chat log format looks great :)

20:30:41 <ssyreeni> chaals: beautiful. much nicer than having to code by hand.

20:30:43 <dajobe> I'm a little worried about older/other browsers

20:30:49 <SethR> has anybody discussed hyperlinking the names to some url of that person ?

20:31:56 <dajobe> nah; leave people to give out whatever info they want

20:32:23 <dajobe> you can always take the generated RDF, do some inference on it with other RDF facts and get that

20:32:53 <jonb> the person who was known to say ... and ... and ...

20:33:37 <SethR> but is there any uri for the person provided in the RDF ?

20:34:08 <dajobe> eg for the line you just typed: <dc:creator><wn:Person foaf:nick="SethR"/></dc:creator>

20:34:18 <dajobe> a bit lame, but there you go

20:34:21 <SethR> seems to me if we provided that uri (relative to the chat log) then whoever could make whatever about that

20:34:29 <dajobe> I'm happy to try another model

20:35:22 <SethR> ok i see .. its a literal

20:36:55 <SethR> seems to me that there should be another page the chump develops ... then the html could hyperlink to that page .. and then a protocol could be provided for people to annotate that page

20:39:10 <SethR> i mean there is a real need for this ... some of us dont know all the nick names on the list ... looking at the data that IRC doesnt help much either

20:39:29 <dajobe> and why do you want to know who they are? can't you just ask?

20:40:17 * bijan notes that DWLB could put in supplied links for nicks.

20:40:30 <dajobe> .google DWLB

20:40:52 <bijan> (DiaWebLogBot, the original "Chump")

20:41:17 <dajobe> I think all I can say is; the data is there, go play :)

20:41:44 <bijan> Er...just reminicing :)

20:42:20 <AaronSw> I remember why I didn't use the XSLT: it doesn't linkify links!

20:42:23 <SethR> wlll sure you can ask ... but sometimes you dont want to .... you probably know all these people ... i dont .. many other newbees wont either

20:42:42 * dajobe could make a page

20:42:44 <bijan> Aaron: wikifyin gin XSLT is a horrible thing.

20:42:52 <AaronSw> I expect so.

20:43:33 <jonb> linkify links?

20:43:46 <AaronSw> turning http://foo into <a href="http://foo">http://foo</a>

20:44:11 <bijan> Any text munging in XSLT...ugh.

20:44:33 <AaronSw> And I'm too lazy to write a python converter for now, I guess.

20:44:37 <bijan> Linkifying isn't bad if the link is distiguished.

20:44:46 <bijan> I.e., the sole content of an element or attribute.

20:45:00 <bijan> It's *inline* links that kill you. [http://foo]

20:45:05 <AaronSw> right

20:45:10 <jonb> ahhh <template match="text()"><if test="substring('http:'...

20:46:00 <bijan> That won't work for [link text|http://foo/]

20:46:56 <jonb> well search for 'http:' in the string .. a hack

20:47:08 <AaronSw> SethR: "watch out, something might happen strange to you today !!"

20:47:11 * AaronSw watches out

20:47:26 <AaronSw> what kind of strange things am i supposed to be watching for?

20:48:04 <SethR> i have no idea .. just watch out ... especially for uri frags :)

20:48:19 <AaronSw> heh.

20:48:30 <AaronSw> I get it now.

20:50:16 <SethR> oh wow .. not that response from my email i didnnt expect, arron

20:50:56 <SethR> so then you would need to provide a suggested alternative to frags .... otherwise you leave evenyone in a real quagmire

20:53:40 <xena> no results found.

20:54:34 <SethR> aaron, in your humbel opinion, what are us supposed to use instead of frags ?

20:54:49 <AaronSw> um, URIs

20:55:45 <AaronSw> what were you using frags for?

20:56:04 <SethR> you mean end a term's uri like this http://foo/thingy instead of http://foo/#thingy ??

20:56:12 <AaronSw> yeah

20:56:27 <AaronSw> or http://foo/schema?thingy

20:56:31 <AaronSw> lots of choices

20:56:58 <bijan>http://foo/schema/HORK/thingy?

20:56:58 <dc_rdfig> C: http://foo/schema/HORK/thingy? from bijan

20:57:23 <bijan> Oops.

20:57:27 <bijan> C:""

20:57:27 <dc_rdfig> added comment C1

20:57:39 <bijan> Hmm.

20:57:39 <AaronSw> Heh

20:57:39 <bijan> C:

20:57:40 <dc_rdfig>http://foo/schema/HORK/thingy?

20:57:40 <dc_rdfig> (1:bijan) ""

20:57:43 <AaronSw> C1:""

20:57:43 <dc_rdfig> deleted comment C1

20:57:50 <bijan> And deleteing C:?

20:57:59 <AaronSw> you can't

20:58:05 <AaronSw> C::bijan's favorite word is: ____ (hint: 4 letters and pork)

20:58:05 <dc_rdfig> added comment C1

20:58:10 <AaronSw> C1:bijan's favorite word is: ____ (hint: 4 letters and pork)

20:58:10 <dc_rdfig> replaced comment C1

20:58:20 <bijan> C:|This is aaron's fault.

20:58:21 <dc_rdfig> titled item C

20:58:35 <AaronSw> hey!

20:58:50 <AaronSw> C:|http://foo/schema/HORK/thingy?

20:58:51 <dc_rdfig> titled item C

20:58:55 <AaronSw> make a comment, dude

20:58:57 <SethR> so how do you explain away to the public the fact that all of the w3c published schemas use frags ?

20:59:11 <AaronSw> what is there to explain? the previous WG goofed

20:59:16 <bijan> C:|This is aaron's fault.

20:59:16 <dc_rdfig> titled item C

20:59:24 <AaronSw> C1:""

20:59:24 <dc_rdfig> deleted comment C1

20:59:26 <bijan> C:And I'll title it as I please!

20:59:26 <dc_rdfig> added comment C1

21:00:08 <bijan> C1:""

21:00:08 <dc_rdfig> deleted comment C1

21:00:16 <bijan> C:This is an error, please ignore.

21:00:16 <dc_rdfig> added comment C1

21:00:30 <AaronSw> C:|

21:00:30 <dc_rdfig> titled item C

21:00:39 <AaronSw> C:|

21:00:39 <dc_rdfig> titled item C

21:00:54 <AaronSw> C:| 

21:00:54 <dc_rdfig> titled item C

21:01:03 <AaronSw> that's better

21:01:08 <SethR> well i just think that to actually change this ~convention~ the WG would need to make a clear statement not just a footnote .. so if there is no intention of actually changeing peoples behavior here, why just muddy the waters further .. i dont get it

21:01:45 <AaronSw> the proposed wording doesn't say stop, it says caution

21:01:56 <AaronSw> just like UK walk signs don't say walk, they say "walk with care"

21:03:13 <SethR> yeah sure .. but what actual good will it do .... it will be just like my warning to you .... watch out for strange things today !!!

21:03:27 <AaronSw> maybe future people will not use them

21:03:47 <AaronSw> then we can get rid of them entirely in rdf 2.0

21:04:16 <SethR> with all the W3C examples to the contrary and with just that one little warning bur4ied inj some document ... who do you think your kidding ..

21:04:29 <AaronSw> hey, it's a start

21:04:34 <AaronSw> one step at a time

21:04:59 <SethR> does TBL agree with your quest here?

21:05:18 <AaronSw> i haven't spoken to him about it

21:05:39 <AaronSw> but he's said that RDF Resources are a subset of Web Resources

21:05:43 <AaronSw> err superset

21:06:39 <SethR> anther question .. is WEBONT gonna be RDF 2.0 .. or what ?

21:06:57 <AaronSw> i'm not qualified to answer that one. I personally hope not.

21:07:40 <SethR> well on your crusade against frags .. lots of luck

21:07:48 <AaronSw> thanks

21:08:49 <SethR> i still dont see why the successor to RDF doesnt give us all the logical primitives (and, or, not, =>, <=, =)

21:09:02 <AaronSw> what's the successor to rdf?

21:09:15 <bijan> And those aren't all the logical primitives.

21:09:18 <dajobe> SethRDF?

21:09:23 <bijan> They aren't even all primitive

21:09:25 <SethR> whatever it is that it is , that's what it would do

21:09:57 <SethR> bijan, yuou mean that some can be defined in terms fo the others?

21:10:11 <bijan> Absolutely.

21:10:17 <bijan> In myriad ways.

21:10:18 * danbri_ gets W3C TR page metadata working with Squish/Ruby stuff

21:10:21 <bijan> And only some of the time.

21:10:30 <bijan> Depends on how you interpret them.

21:10:31 <danbri_> just can't get CVS to accept my files...

21:11:38 <SethR> bijan, cool ... so what is the minimum set of primitives that would give us all of these [ and, or , not, =>, <=, = ] ?

21:12:00 <bijan> Truth functional varients? The sheffer's stroke is all you need.

21:12:13 <bijan> And it's hidously painful to work with. :)

21:12:36 <bijan> More standardly, you pick or and not

21:12:38 <jonb> SethR: WEBONT will not contain expressions such as (forall, =>

21:12:55 <AaronSw> I think and and not would be better for RDF.

21:12:56 <bijan> And, of course, you left out the quantifiers :)

21:13:16 * SethR wonders if we could do it all with just prolog's :-

21:13:17 <bijan> and and not will work, if somewhat painfully.

21:13:53 <SethR> woops .. yep need: forall and exists

21:13:54 <bijan> ~P v Q <===> P -> Q is *awfully* convenient.

21:14:12 <bijan> But as long as you can define away, it doesn't really matter.

21:14:43 <bijan> Hmm. Prolog doesn't just have :-. There's , and lots of quantification.

21:14:57 <bijan> And, at least, implicit disjunction via multiple clauses.

21:16:21 <bijan> And there's pretty strong restrings on how many or few negated literals you can have.

21:17:08 <bijan> restrings? Restrictions!

21:22:42 <oierw|school> oierw|school is now known as oierw

21:23:34 <danbri_>http://www.w3.org/2001/12/rubyrdf/examples/tr/Makefile

21:23:34 <dc_rdfig> D: http://www.w3.org/2001/12/rubyrdf/examples/tr/Makefile from danbri_

21:23:58 <danbri_> D:|Quick experiment with using RubyRDF and SQL/Squish to load and query W3C Tech Reports metadata

21:23:58 <dc_rdfig> titled item D

21:24:34 <danbri_> D:See also [http://www.w3.org/2001/12/rubyrdf/examples/tr/notes.squish|simple test query]

21:24:35 <dc_rdfig> added comment D1

21:32:14 <danbri_> D:Here's the [http://www.w3.org/2001/12/rubyrdf/examples/tr/queryresults.txt|results] from a simple query. Ooops, didn't mean to check such large derrived files into CVS. Better make it worthwhile by documenting them...

21:32:15 <dc_rdfig> added comment D2

21:39:56 * danbri_ bats eyelids innocently

21:47:52 <oierw> oierw is now known as oierw|school

22:02:46 * danbri_ gets off the phone w/ chaals

22:03:27 <danbri_> We were talking about the image, visualisation and accessibility work. He points me to a LogiTech mouse that can give physical feedback as your mouse pointer covers different regions of the screen.

22:03:34 <danbri_> From their site I think it is:

22:03:38 <danbri_>http://www.logitech.com/cf/products/productoverview.cfm/80

22:03:38 <dc_rdfig> E: http://www.logitech.com/cf/products/productoverview.cfm/80 from danbri_

22:04:28 <danbri_> E:|LogiTech iFeel MouseMan -- "Scroll over iFeel-enabled dialog boxes, menus, nav bars, icons and more, and feel a variety of gentle vibrations."

22:04:28 <dc_rdfig> titled item E

22:05:28 <danbri_> E:We want to try this with SVG image annotations; charles knows someone doing work in this area, so hope is to hook it up to the co-depiction etc stuff re accessibility of images for the visually impaired.

22:05:28 <dc_rdfig> added comment E1

22:16:31 * jonb waves

22:16:50 <jhendler> can't respond this minute - am bust sending you email :->

22:17:35 <ssyreeni> danbri: have you thought about adding whatever there is in vCard that is not already in FOAF to the latter?

22:18:47 <jhendler> JonB - I did a presentation on SemWeb at NLM today (natl library of med to you non-US folks) - lots of interest (moved it from their seminar room into an auditorium because a lot of folks came) - they have joined W3C in part so they can have someone join WOWG, not sure who yet

22:21:32 <danbri_> ssyreeni, yes, but that would (a) require me reading vCard and (b) require spending time finishing off FOAF!

22:22:13 <ssyreeni> a drag, to be sure. ;) would you like me to implement (a)? you could take on (b)...

22:22:47 <danbri_> It does seem somewhat "un-webby" to duplicate something that already exists, but I think with person metadata there are inevitably going to be dozens of schemas. Many (most) RDBMS schemas have some notion of Person (employee etc). Moving from RDBMS where there are 1000s of such schemas to RDF/SW where there are merly dozens, that'd still be progress.

22:23:00 <danbri_> (a) would be great! :)

22:23:23 <danbri_> Noting that http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/ doesn't perfectly document FOAF as deployed...

22:23:35 <ssyreeni> vcard is simply rfc's 2425 and 2426. it's not too much trouble to go through them. I wouldn't want to be the one to do (b), though...

22:23:38 <ssyreeni> really?

22:23:46 <danbri_> I should ask libby to do a dump of the predicates and classes her robot has encountered.

22:23:53 * DanC wanders by

22:23:54 <ssyreeni> do you have any nice, up-to-date instances?

22:23:58 <ssyreeni> ah..

22:23:59 <danbri_> We made the decision not to reversion the namespace with each experiment and change

22:24:24 <ssyreeni> nobody likes to do documentation. believe me, I know... ;)

22:24:29 <danbri_> The schema should be a reasonable start. I'll try to get a summary of the harvested instance data. I do edit the schema from time to time...

22:25:02 <danbri_> Having tools (like RDFAuthor) that actually *use* that schema document was a huge motivator. If I don't add a new property, it doesn't show up in the authoring tool!

22:25:06 <DanC> ssyreeni, I'm Dan Connolly; I don't recognize your nick. Have we met?

22:25:34 * danbri_ should also setup redirects from http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/knows etc to the namespace URI. Not sure if I can do that with a regex without rebuilding my Apache installation...

22:25:48 <ssyreeni> danc: not probably. a newbie, I am. working at Nokia. a big fan of metadata, nothing more. just getting into practical RDF...

22:25:58 <danbri_> (but I'm motivated to find out, since TimBL has some CWM code that dereferences predicate URIs...)

22:26:04 * danbri_ pleased to meet you too

22:26:19 * danbri_ <- http://www.w3.org/People/Danbri/, http://rdfweb.org/people/danbri/

22:26:20 <DanC> practical RDF: some of my favorite words.

22:26:31 <danbri_> And no longer an oxymoron :)

22:26:37 <ssyreeni> amazing enough...

22:26:47 * danbri_ grins

22:27:24 <DanC> my approach to stuff like vcard is (a) model vcard exactly as is. and the palmpilot. (b) write rules to relate vcard to palmpilot etc.

22:27:25 <danbri_> So which bit of Nokia are you at? near Boston, Finland...?

22:27:43 <DanC> and (c) use schemas that timbl makes up. ;-)

22:28:21 <DanC> umm... let's see... actually, I haven't done anything with vcard per se. But I have done vcal stuff.

22:28:31 * danbri_ remembers the FOAF schema includes the following:

22:28:36 <danbri_> [[

22:28:39 <danbri_> <rdf:Description rdf:about="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/">

22:28:39 <danbri_> <rdfs:seeAlso rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/08/rdfweb/foaf" />

22:28:39 <danbri_> </rdf:Description>

22:28:39 <danbri_> ]]

22:29:06 * DanC hunts for vcal/evolution stuff...

22:29:49 <ssyreeni> danc: finland. documentation stuff. worked with patrick stickler. his stauchnest critic, probably...

22:30:01 <DanC> ah: google to the rescue, pointing me to www-rdf-calendar; I was a good dobie and sent a success report: "hybrid RDF ical import into evolution works!" -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2002Jan/0002.html

22:30:15 <danbri_> Currently that rdfs:seeAlso points to an almost empty file; we could have it rdfs:seeAlso off somewhere else, eg ssyreeni if you write some assertions mapping say vCard and FOAF...

22:30:21 <ssyreeni> danc: vcard: quite the picture. it's a metadata standard, for sure. a frame based one, at that.

22:31:05 <danbri_> Renato submitted a mapping of vcard as RDF to W3C, published at http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf

22:31:46 <danbri_> Renato Iannella, I mean. I've heard informally that some folk think the mapping encodes the old vcard XML syntax not the abstraction behind it, but I've never seen detailed proposals for a revision.

22:31:59 <DanC> timbl's foray into vcard-ish stuff: http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/contact.n3

22:32:35 <danbri_> FOAF is fun etc., but a lot of people are looking for something less... frivolous. Once I add foaf:humanGenomeChecksum any pretention that it'd become a defacto whitepage standard will vanish ;-)

22:32:39 * DanC considers a BLURB: RDF and vCard

22:32:58 <danbri_> Maybe a goal might might to get implementor feedback on http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf ?

22:33:21 * danbri_ heads offline for a bit

22:33:30 <danbri_> ssyreeni: nice to meet you

22:34:20 <ssyreeni> danbri: never heard of renato's work. i'll have to look into that.

22:34:43 <jhendler1>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Mar/0087.html

22:34:43 <dc_rdfig> F: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2002Mar/0087.html from jhendler1

22:34:59 <DanC>http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf

22:34:59 <dc_rdfig> G: http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf from DanC

22:35:04 <jhendler1> F:|RDF-based "screen scraper"

22:35:05 <dc_rdfig> titled item F

22:35:09 <danbri_> I think it came out of the Dublin Core 'agent' working group he chaired (Agent as in person/organisation/etc); Dublin Core preferred that stuff done elsewhere, rather than having their own vocab.

22:35:12 <DanC> G:|Representing vCard Objects in RDF/XML

22:35:12 <dc_rdfig> titled item G

22:35:15 <ssyreeni> danbri: nice to meet you. after all, you're a veritable Name in the RDF circles. as is danc.

22:35:24 <DanC> logger, pointer?

22:35:26 <DanC> See http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2002-03-12#T22-35-24

22:35:41 <dajobe> maybe we do need that nick/uri list :)

22:35:43 <jhendler1> F: Univ of Md releases "running RDF" based on "Running Shoe" -- builds wrappers to create RDF from HTML content.

22:35:44 <dc_rdfig> added comment F1

22:35:47 <DanC> G:see [discussion|http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2002-03-12#T22-35-24] of vCard, foaf, swap/pim/contact, etc.

22:35:47 <dc_rdfig> added comment G1

22:36:17 <jhendler1> yes, it's impossible to be very well-known in RDF unless one's name is Dan...

22:36:59 <DanC> hmm... "rdf tools" ... somebody needs to read "Microcontent: Headlines and Subject Lines (Alertbox Sept. 1998)" http://www.useit.com/alertbox/980906.html

22:37:25 <jhendler1> F: also soliciting feedback on a markup tool, to be released soon

22:37:26 <dc_rdfig> added comment F2

22:37:37 <jhendler1> Danc - cut and posted to the student...

22:38:17 <danbri_> So we have foaf:nick, for IRC stuff; ultimately I wanna be able to have a bot do things like: SELECT ?i ?n WHERE (foaf::depiction ?p ?i) (foaf::nick ?p ?n) USING foaf as http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/

22:38:27 <DanC> style error #2: not using full URIs. e.g. www.ece.umd.edu/~adityak/running.html ; I can't click on it

22:39:11 <ssyreeni> danc: microcontent: precisely what everyone's being supposedly doing for <meta name="keywords"/>.

22:39:29 <ssyreeni> or better yet <meta name="description"/>

22:40:11 <DanC> well, my point about microcontent is that "rdf tools" says very little, especially went sent to a mailing list which is pretty much all about rdf tools. JimH's chump headline is much more distinctive: RDF-based "screen scraper"

22:41:01 <DanC> ok, enough about style; let's try test #2: how long does it take to get it running on my desktop development box?

22:41:04 <DanC> time me...

22:41:08 <ssyreeni> of course. context sensitivity is the key, here. on this forum, there's not much sense in describing a link as leading to "rdf tools"...

22:41:31 <DanC> .google microcontent jacob

22:41:32 <xena> microcontent jacob: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/980906.html

22:42:12 <jhendler1> jhendler1 is now known as jhendler

22:42:17 <ssyreeni> danc, xena: I wouldn't be entirely sure microcontent doens't have something to do with the mobile Internet, as well...

22:42:40 <DanC> release engineering nit: the .zip file should contain just one directory of stuff.

22:42:57 <DanC> I could be able to unzip it in my ~/src directory, without polluting that directory.

22:43:15 <DanC> hmm... no README file.

22:43:21 <DanC> I've got the thing, I unzipped it. now what?

22:43:47 <jhendler> DanC - all this will be forwarded on - this is student's first try...

22:44:08 <DanC> yup; release engineering is a skill, not something folks are born knowing.

22:44:46 <DanC> ah... grep main *.java gives me some clues...

22:45:08 <DanC> let's try compiling everything in sight:

22:45:11 <DanC> lose:

22:45:12 <DanC> $ javac *.java

22:45:12 <DanC> RunningRDF.java:25: Package javax.swing not found in import.

22:45:26 * danbri_ trying same

22:45:30 <danbri_> I have it running.

22:45:33 <jonb> jhendler: cool. wonders: can OWL be used in general to 'scrape' RDF from XML?

22:45:42 <DanC> ok; danbri wins; I lose.

22:46:00 <danbri_> danbri@fireball:/mnt/big/home/danbri/public_html/2002/03/running > date

22:46:00 <danbri_> Tue Mar 12 23:01:54 GMT 2002

22:46:00 <danbri_> danbri@fireball:/mnt/big/home/danbri/public_html/2002/03/running > more log

22:46:00 <danbri_> Tue Mar 12 22:59:59 GMT 2002

22:46:23 <jhendler> hmm, I saw a readme at one point, wonder what happened to it - will remind Aditya of this...

22:46:29 <danbri_> <2mins. I guessed a bunch though.

22:47:06 <DanC> so... JimH, you can tell your student... umm... Aditya Kalyanpur... that (a) it looks cool enough that I think a lot of folks are gonna try it, but (b) about 60 to 90% of them are going to lose.

22:48:11 <DanC> of course, you probably won't have to tell him (her?). flood of email probably is on its way.

22:48:19 <DanC> The internet teaches release engineering all by itself. ;-)

22:49:40 <jhendler> DanC - good point, but as an advisor I'm happy I got to relay this from you guys first -- I think the markup tool (he calls it RDF Editor) is actually far more cool, will make sure he releases that better...

22:49:43 * jonb notes: RunningRDF.java 03/05/02 RunningRDF.class 03/03/2002

22:50:04 <danbri_> F:My rough installation HOWTO for 2002-03-12 version of RunningRDF. (0) have a Java box with JDK and Swing (1) create a separate downloads directory. (2) download [http://www.ece.umd.edu/~adityak/RunningRDF.zip|zip file] (check [http://www.ece.umd.edu/~adityak/running.html|website for later versions]), (3) unzip it (remembering that 'jar -xvf *.zip' is often handy when unzip not installed on a linux box) (4) add the top level RunningRDF d

22:50:04 <dc_rdfig> added comment F3

22:50:05 <danbri_> to your classpath. (5) Run the GUI app with: java Extract/RunningRDF

22:50:22 <ssyreeni> reading http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf : isn't there a problem in relying on RDF serialization order to convey default values?

22:50:46 <jonb> also RDFWrapper.java 03/05/02 RDFWrapper.class 12/18/01

22:50:56 <DanC> ssyreeni, probably so.

22:51:15 <DanC> (I'd need to read closer, but as I recall, /TR/vcard-rdf had several problems of that sort)

22:51:21 <danbri_> F:4. add the top level RunningRDF directory to your classpath, eg (as a bash shell user) I typed: export CLASSPATH=$CLASSPATH:. (5) Run the GUI app with: java Extract/RunningRDF

22:51:21 <dc_rdfig> added comment F4

22:51:38 <danbri_> F3:My rough installation HOWTO for 2002-03-12 version of RunningRDF. (0) have a Java box with JDK and Swing (1) create a separate downloads directory. (2) download [http://www.ece.umd.edu/~adityak/RunningRDF.zip|zip file] (check [http://www.ece.umd.edu/~adityak/running.html|website for later versions]), (3) unzip it (remembering that 'jar -xvf *.zip' is often handy when unzip not installed on a linux box)

22:51:38 <dc_rdfig> replaced comment F3

22:51:47 <DanC> danbri_, I lose at step (0), I think. How do I get swing?

22:51:48 <danbri_> Hope this helps

22:52:23 * DanC is not a high java priest yet; just a lowly cleric

22:52:36 <dajobe> danbri_: java -version ?

22:52:54 <danbri_> It seems to just be here. I'm using SuSe linux installed a few months ago, installed Java JDK and it was just part of that. I dunno where you got your Java, nor where one looks for handy 'make my linuxbox do the latest in stable java' download.

22:53:03 * dajobe starts getting xml:base test cases to give right answers

22:53:08 <danbri_> danbri@fireball:/mnt/big/home/danbri/public_html/2002/03/running > java -version

22:53:08 <danbri_> java version "1.3.1_01"

22:53:08 <danbri_> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.3.1_01)

22:53:08 <danbri_> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.3.1_01, mixed mode)

22:53:19 * danbri_ -> project x

22:53:21 <danbri_> back later

22:53:43 <danbri_> Jim, if my howto's any good, you could just hyperlink to the chump...

22:54:39 <danbri_> jim, url is http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2002/03/12/2002-03-12.html#1015972483.143879

22:54:51 <danbri_> Now it's running, I need instructions on what to do next!

22:55:51 <jhendler> danbri - hyperlinked already. re: what to do next, is a good question, I think some text files must be missing, know there was something there before.

22:56:46 <jhendler> F: webpage has basic getting started, but needs more - foo.

22:56:47 <dc_rdfig> added comment F5

23:02:56 <jhendler> quote from one of my students today " I guess i've just been working with this RDF stuff so long I'm starting to get like Ora, I think I prefer RDF now"

23:03:37 <DanC> heh

23:04:32 <Mitch22> Hi!

23:04:53 <Mitch22> Is there any list of magazines or other ezines with rdf-support?

23:05:05 <ssyreeni> jhendler: thinking in RDF isn't so hard. especially if one's thinking about the triplet model. I think it's quite intuitive...unlike the serialization syntax...

23:06:09 <jhendler> actually, this student was commenting on RDF/N3 vs RDF/XML - I personally hate thinking in the triple model, I find the N3 much more intuitive -- guess it's to each his/her own

23:06:36 <sat> you don't like the aero dynamic XML serialization?

23:07:50 <jhendler> my favorite is where RDFDB uses the whole URI reference for things, so one can take a small number of RDF statements, reify them, and then save in RDFDB and use huge chunks of memory ...

23:08:23 <ssyreeni> absolutely not. too much complications. why doesn't <t><s>subject</a><p>predicate</p><o>object</o></t>+ do?

23:09:13 <sbp> NTriples in XML! Whee!

23:10:00 <sat> does anyone have suggestions on a SW topic for research?

23:10:22 <jhendler> how many you want?

23:10:25 <AaronSw> research being something to code?

23:10:30 <sat> I like to do my Ms thesis on it

23:10:35 <ssyreeni> sbp: precisely.

23:10:47 <sbp> how about: how to get journalists to stop saying that the Semantic Web will understand natural language?

23:10:55 <AaronSw> Heh, heh

23:11:00 <sat> oh, btw, its in CS, not business

23:11:55 <jhendler> sat - what level (high school through PhD) and what time period (something to hack up, or a major research area)

23:12:06 <jhendler> (that's what happens when you ask a professor for research ideas...)

23:12:40 <AaronSw> <sat> I like to do my Ms thesis on it

23:12:51 <sat> currently doing masters, and I am almost tempted to go for PhD, so I like to pick a topic, that can grow to be big enough for PhD

23:13:03 <ssyreeni>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/ntriples/

23:13:03 <dc_rdfig> H: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/ntriples/ from ssyreeni

23:13:17 <jhendler> where are you a student?

23:13:26 <sat> CU Denver...

23:13:41 <sbp> H:Obsoleted by [http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntriples|NTriples in the RDF Test cases draft]

23:13:41 <dc_rdfig> added comment H1

23:13:50 <ssyreeni> h:|NTriples W3C RDF Core WD

23:14:03 <sbp> H:|The old RDF Core NTriples spec.

23:14:03 <dc_rdfig> titled item H

23:14:09 <AaronSw> ssyreeni, http://swag.webns.net/SURF-intro

23:14:14 <AaronSw> is N-Triples in RDF

23:14:24 <jhendler> Do you prefer an AIish slant, a web slant, or some field (like bio or science)

23:14:40 <ssyreeni> h:Should be put into XML.

23:14:43 <AaronSw> actually, http://swag.webns.net/SURF-spec is a better link

23:14:51 <sbp> you need a capital H, BWT

23:14:59 <AaronSw> H:[SURF|http://swag.webns.net/SURF-spec] is an XML form of N-Triples

23:14:59 <dc_rdfig> added comment H2

23:15:02 <sbp> heh, "By Way of The"

23:15:06 <sat> web slant...that can be useful for industry

23:15:35 <ssyreeni> aaronsw: quite.

23:15:44 <sat> ( Easier to make a business case with my company to sponser PhD work )

23:15:56 <ssyreeni> take that as a test of the blogger functionality.

23:16:23 <jhendler> okay, that one is easy - using RDFS and/or OWL to link databaases to term libraries - "virtual portaling" based on common links - would be a useful tool to crate as well.

23:16:29 <sbp> heh, heh: "This document is based upon numerous previous works and conversations which may be lost in the mists of time."

23:17:24 <jhendler> My second choice would be a way to use RDFS/OWL concepts to map SML-schema to each other (i.e. link document terms to semantic referents, and those to other document terms) -- example, could link an on-line resume and an on-line job history.

23:17:42 <jhendler> based on the concepts "person, employment, etc."

23:18:33 <sat> second one sounds very interesting

23:19:37 <sbp> .google NTriples

23:19:38 <xena> NTriples: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/ntriples

23:19:40 <sbp> Pff

23:27:34 * dajobe should make the superceeded status LARGER

23:28:38 <sbp> or just delete it... oh. Silly date-space :-)

23:28:53 <sbp> [insert scream from Aaron here]

23:29:10 <AaronSw> Actually, a redirect would be best.

23:29:11 <dajobe> it has a historical purpose; including changelog for pre-WD

23:30:40 <sbp> I'd favor moving the current doc to ntriples-old, and then having a simple three line "The NTriples draft merged in with the test cases spec.\nGo to the new current draft\nGo to the old historical draft"

23:31:01 <sbp> and possibly a "don't link to this page!" at the bottom :-)

23:57:40 <AaronSw> can someone on swordfish (libby, shellac, danbri_) run paths?

23:58:19 <AaronSw> rm is demanding instant gratification