Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2003-07-30

00:30:36 <nabcore> I'm writing some php code to generate a RSS feed of the latested entries in a database. The php script will reside on an SSL'ed section of our server that requires username/password auth. Do any RSS clients support SSL'ed feeds?

04:39:29 <dmwaters> {global notice} Good morning all, we appear to be experiencing some trouble with one of our european hubs. sorry for the problems, any further messages will be given in wallops, thank you for using freenode!

05:12:00 <dngor_> dngor_ is now known as dngor

06:03:48 <dje_> dje_ is now known as Bedrock

06:35:09 <burtonator_> burtonator_ is now known as burtonat0r

07:17:36 <jordan> anybody awake?

07:18:31 <sandro> yeah

07:18:37 <sandro> not for long

07:19:07 <jordan> what is an easy tool for a quick visualization (just simple source, arc, value type o' thang) of RDF and DAML other than brownsauce and IsaViz?

07:19:11 <kota_> kota_ is now known as kota

07:19:38 <jordan> something non-fancy that is relatively fast. But more tightly connected than the validator's graph

07:20:58 <sandro> Not quite sure what you're getting at. Maybe you want to use graphviz directly? (it's what the validator uses under the covers)

08:25:13 <rO|_> rO|_ is now known as rO|

09:19:42 <danbri>http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=7662

09:19:43 <dc_rdfig> A: http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=7662 from danbri

09:20:13 <danbri> A:|Berners-Lee: Integrate Web services and Semantic Web, Rich Seeley (ADTmag.com)

09:20:14 <dc_rdfig> Titled item A.

09:56:47 * dajobe lol at A: and Tim's taxes

09:57:07 <dajobe> I hope cwm's datatypes stuff is solid

10:02:20 <tav> tav is now known as tav|offline

11:26:07 <arnarl> hi

11:45:02 <tav|offline> tav|offline is now known as tav

12:43:11 <libby> hello...danbri? danC?

12:43:43 <libby> I probbaly won;t have time to chump calendar agenda stuff before the meeting later...could someone do it for me?

12:44:14 <libby> I'll try andget there a bit before but may not happen

13:09:01 <DanC> a family thing has come up here, so I'm not sure I'll make the chat today

13:19:54 * DanC looks around for jimH, sandro

15:03:49 <mortenf>http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=30&month=7&year=2003&hour=16&min=0&sec=0&p1=0

15:03:49 <dc_rdfig> B: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=30&month=7&year=2003&hour=16&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 from mortenf

15:04:16 <mortenf> B:|RDF Calendar meeting 2003-07-30 at 16:00 UTC

15:04:17 <dc_rdfig> Titled item B.

15:05:18 <mortenf> B:[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2003Jul/0002.html Agenda]

15:05:18 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B1.

15:05:56 * danbri catches up, thanks mortenf

15:06:14 <mortenf> B:See also: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/ mailing list archive], [http://esw.w3.org/topic/RdfCalendar wiki pages] and [http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/ workspace].

15:06:15 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B2.

15:06:22 <mortenf> np

15:08:57 <mortenf> BLURB:RDF Calendar agenda item C: ical2rdf.pl and prodid support

15:08:57 <dc_rdfig> C: RDF Calendar agenda item C: ical2rdf.pl and prodid support from mortenf

15:10:28 <mortenf> B:Continuing [http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/06/25/2003-06-25.html#1056556072.203619 action] from Libby

15:10:30 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B3.

15:10:34 <mortenf> C:Continuing [http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/06/25/2003-06-25.html#1056556072.203619 action] from Libby

15:10:35 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C1.

15:10:36 <mortenf> B:

15:10:36 <dc_rdfig>http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=30&month=7&year=2003&hour=16&min=0&sec=0&p1=0

15:10:37 <dc_rdfig> RDF Calendar meeting 2003-07-30 at 16:00 UTC

15:10:38 <dc_rdfig> (1:mortenf) [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2003Jul/0002.html Agenda]

15:10:39 <dc_rdfig> (2:mortenf) See also: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/ mailing list archive], [http://esw.w3.org/topic/RdfCalendar wiki pages] and [http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/ workspace].

15:10:40 <dc_rdfig> (3:mortenf) Continuing [http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/06/25/2003-06-25.html#1056556072.203619 action] from Libby

15:10:44 <mortenf> B3:

15:10:44 <dc_rdfig> (mortenf) Continuing [http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/06/25/2003-06-25.html#1056556072.203619 action] from Libby

15:10:47 <mortenf> B3:""

15:10:47 <dc_rdfig> Deleted comment B3.

15:11:47 <mortenf> BLURB:RDF Calendar agenda item D: Regression tests, round-tripping

15:11:47 <dc_rdfig> D: RDF Calendar agenda item D: Regression tests, round-tripping from mortenf

15:12:44 <mortenf> D:Continuing [http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/07/09/2003-07-09.html#1057762829.079224 action] from Morten

15:12:44 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D1.

15:13:49 <mortenf> BLURB:RDF Calendar agenda item E: InterpretationProperties and time zones

15:13:49 <dc_rdfig> E: RDF Calendar agenda item E: InterpretationProperties and time zones from mortenf

15:15:01 <mortenf> E:See [http://esw.w3.org/topic/InterpretationProperties wiki page on InterpretationProperties].

15:15:01 <dc_rdfig> Added comment E1.

15:16:00 <mortenf> E:Continuing [http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/05/14/2003-05-14.html#1052921345.552964 action] from Libby

15:16:00 <dc_rdfig> Added comment E2.

15:19:19 <mortenf> BLURB:RDF Calendar agenda item F: skical optimeset

15:19:19 <dc_rdfig> F: RDF Calendar agenda item F: skical optimeset from mortenf

15:20:16 <mortenf> F:Continuing [http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/05/14/2003-05-14.html#1052921472.659227 action] from Libby (see [http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-05-14.html#T17-02-31 logs])

15:20:16 <dc_rdfig> Added comment F1.

15:21:00 <mortenf> BLURB:RDF Calendar agenda item G: Next meeting?

15:21:00 <dc_rdfig> G: RDF Calendar agenda item G: Next meeting? from mortenf

15:21:31 <mortenf> hmm.

15:21:35 <mortenf> B:

15:21:35 <dc_rdfig>http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=30&month=7&year=2003&hour=16&min=0&sec=0&p1=0

15:21:36 <dc_rdfig> RDF Calendar meeting 2003-07-30 at 16:00 UTC

15:21:37 <dc_rdfig> (1:mortenf) [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2003Jul/0002.html Agenda]

15:21:38 <dc_rdfig> (2:mortenf) See also: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/ mailing list archive], [http://esw.w3.org/topic/RdfCalendar wiki pages] and [http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/ workspace].

15:22:27 <mortenf> B1:[Agenda|http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2003Jul/0002.html]

15:22:27 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment B1.

15:22:30 * DanC heads out of the office for a bit, but stays partly in touch via DanC_AIM

15:23:15 <mortenf> B2:See also: [mailing list archive|http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/], [wiki pages|http://esw.w3.org/topic/RdfCalendar] and [workspace|http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/].

15:23:15 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment B2.

15:23:51 <mortenf> C1:Continuing [action|http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/06/25/2003-06-25.html#1056556072.203619] from Libby

15:23:51 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment C1.

15:24:09 <mortenf> D1:Continuing [action|http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/07/09/2003-07-09.html#1057762829.079224] from Morten

15:24:11 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment D1.

15:24:55 <mortenf> E1:See ews wiki: [InterpretationProperties|http://esw.w3.org/topic/InterpretationProperties].

15:24:55 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment E1.

15:24:59 <mortenf> E1:See esw wiki: [InterpretationProperties|http://esw.w3.org/topic/InterpretationProperties].

15:24:59 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment E1.

15:25:17 <mortenf> E2:Continuing [action|http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/05/14/2003-05-14.html#1052921345.552964] from Libby

15:25:17 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment E2.

15:25:48 <mortenf> F1:Continuing [action|http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/05/14/2003-05-14.html#1052921472.659227] from Libby (see also [logs|http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-05-14.html#T17-02-31])

15:25:48 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment F1.

15:25:58 <mortenf> ah :)

15:38:30 <mortenf> D:See also some discussion in yesterday's [log|http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-07-29.html#T19-52-46]

15:38:30 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D2.

15:51:41 * libby waves

15:51:47 <mortenf> hey

15:51:50 <libby> is anyone here for the calendar meet?

15:51:56 <libby> hi mortenf

15:52:04 <libby> makeing sure not just me...

15:52:05 <mortenf> somewhat, for an hour at least

15:52:22 <mortenf> danc said "heads out of the office for a bit, but stays partly in touch via DanC_AIM"

15:52:42 <libby> ok, I saw th family thing note

15:53:01 <libby> well if it's just you and I morten, maybe an hour or less makes sense

15:53:05 <mortenf> danbri was here as well

15:53:08 <mortenf> yep

15:53:23 <libby> I'm missing a trip to the pub for this!

15:53:33 <mortenf> :(

15:53:45 <libby> don;t worry - I'll catch up later!

15:53:57 <mortenf> no doubt in my mind ;)

16:00:01 <libby> help, no time to chump

16:00:11 <mortenf> did that :)

16:00:33 <libby> aw thanks mortenf

16:00:39 <mortenf> sure thing

16:01:15 <libby> hm, I can;t access rdfig.xmlhack.com

16:01:20 <libby> is that just me?

16:01:28 <chaalsNCE> me neither

16:01:41 <mortenf> was there just a few minutes ago

16:01:46 <danbri> me also neither

16:01:52 <libby> darn

16:01:57 <libby> anyway, better start

16:02:03 <danbri> libby, is mattb around? he knows about the rdfig.xmlhack.com setup

16:02:04 <libby> --------calendar meeting------

16:02:10 <libby> he is but he's in a meeting

16:02:15 <libby> might see him shortly

16:02:35 <libby> how do you do that thing to make all the chumps come up?

16:02:47 <mortenf> dc_rdfig, list

16:02:54 <mortenf> hmm, guess not

16:03:05 <danbri> rdf_rdfig:view

16:03:09 <danbri> rdf_rdfig:view?

16:03:16 <danbri> dc_rdfig:view?

16:03:20 <danbri> dc_rdfig:view

16:03:25 * danbri gives up!

16:03:35 <chaalsNCE> dc_rdfig:list?

16:03:44 <chaalsNCE> dc_rdfig, list?

16:03:53 <chaalsNCE> dc_rdfig, view?

16:03:55 <danbri> chump probably running from same box as rdfig.xmlhack.com

16:04:05 <libby> morten, did you use the email i sent as a basis?

16:04:10 <dc_rdfig> Not understood: list

16:04:11 <dc_rdfig> C: RDF Calendar agenda item C: ical2rdf.pl and prodid support (blurb)

16:04:12 <dc_rdfig> D: RDF Calendar agenda item D: Regression tests, round-tripping (blurb)

16:04:13 <dc_rdfig> E: RDF Calendar agenda item E: InterpretationProperties and time zones (blurb)

16:04:14 <dc_rdfig> F: RDF Calendar agenda item F: skical optimeset (blurb)

16:04:15 <dc_rdfig> G: RDF Calendar agenda item G: Next meeting? (blurb)

16:04:17 <dc_rdfig> C: RDF Calendar agenda item C: ical2rdf.pl and prodid support (blurb)

16:04:18 <dc_rdfig> D: RDF Calendar agenda item D: Regression tests, round-tripping (blurb)

16:04:19 <dc_rdfig> E: RDF Calendar agenda item E: InterpretationProperties and time zones (blurb)

16:04:21 <dc_rdfig> F: RDF Calendar agenda item F: skical optimeset (blurb)

16:04:23 <dc_rdfig> G: RDF Calendar agenda item G: Next meeting? (blurb)

16:04:27 <mortenf> i got a copy in my cache - see http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-07-29.html#T19-52-46

16:04:31 <dajobe> there are some network probs to the host of the chump bot

16:04:31 <mortenf> doh!

16:04:37 <libby> ahah

16:04:40 <mortenf> rather, http://www.wasab.dk/morten/2003/06/cal/xmlhack.com.html

16:04:42 <dajobe> I can fix if software breaks there...

16:04:45 <dc_rdfig> Not understood: list?

16:04:47 <dc_rdfig> Not understood: list?

16:04:49 <dc_rdfig> C: RDF Calendar agenda item C: ical2rdf.pl and prodid support (blurb)

16:04:51 <dc_rdfig> D: RDF Calendar agenda item D: Regression tests, round-tripping (blurb)

16:04:55 <mortenf> libby, yep

16:05:12 <libby> very nice morten

16:05:28 <libby> ok, lets go with C:ical2rdf and prodid support

16:05:34 * ndw lurks. His own rdf calendaring stuff is unrelated to ical

16:05:37 <libby> nothing to report there re my action

16:05:54 <libby> ndw, won;t you talk to us about it? want an agenda item?

16:06:11 <libby> action continues

16:06:11 <ndw> if you run out of other things to talk about, i'd be happy to.

16:06:15 <libby> cool :)

16:06:21 <mortenf> great

16:06:37 <libby> hey amy!

16:06:45 <libby> moving to D: RDF Calendar agenda item D: Regression tests, round-tripping - any objections?

16:06:52 <mortenf> fine

16:07:02 <libby> any new mortenf?

16:07:03 <amy> hi libby :)

16:07:07 <libby> s/new/news/

16:07:15 <mortenf> well, not really;

16:07:33 <mortenf> fiddling with Makefile, but saw some comment from tim yesterday i'm not sure what to do about

16:07:45 <mortenf> D:

16:07:58 <libby> C:action continues [action libby|http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/06/25/2003-06-25.html#1056556072.203619]

16:08:12 <libby> what was that comment?

16:08:37 <mortenf> see http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-07-29.html#T20-31-35

16:08:49 <dc_rdfig> E: RDF Calendar agenda item E: InterpretationProperties and time zones (blurb)

16:08:49 <dc_rdfig> F: RDF Calendar agenda item F: skical optimeset (blurb)

16:08:49 <dc_rdfig> G: RDF Calendar agenda item G: Next meeting? (blurb)

16:08:56 <dc_rdfig> blurb

16:08:57 <dc_rdfig> RDF Calendar agenda item D: Regression tests, round-tripping

16:08:58 <dc_rdfig> (1:mortenf) Continuing [action|http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/07/09/2003-07-09.html#1057762829.079224] from Morten

16:08:59 <dc_rdfig> (2:mortenf) See also some discussion in yesterday's [log|http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-07-29.html#T19-52-46]

16:09:01 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C2.

16:09:02 <mortenf> heh

16:09:04 <libby> heh

16:09:16 <libby> D:[see timbl's comment|http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-07-29.html#T20-31-35]

16:09:16 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D3.

16:09:21 <mortenf> is there an echo in here?

16:09:34 <chaalsNCE> is there an echo in here?

16:09:41 <libby> so what's the problem?

16:09:46 <mortenf> so, short story: no news, but i'm trying to makeit auto-build all tests

16:09:52 <libby> ok, neat

16:10:11 <mortenf> don't know if it's with the "right" approach, though

16:10:33 <mortenf> anyhow, we've already established that some stuff is missing from the conversions

16:10:45 <libby> 'right' approach?

16:10:49 <libby> that's useful

16:10:51 <mortenf> well, tim's approach :)

16:10:58 <mortenf> (which i don't know what is)

16:11:09 <libby> i don;t think it matters as long as you announce your approach etc

16:11:16 <mortenf> yep

16:11:23 <libby> then someone will tell you if it the 'right' way :)

16:11:49 <mortenf> so, ical2rdf barfs on bus-hrs because of a lowercase "lastmodified"

16:12:06 <libby> really?

16:12:11 <libby> ical2rdf.pl?

16:12:16 <mortenf> yep

16:12:25 <libby> instaed of LASTMODIFIED?

16:12:30 <mortenf> and toIcal.py skips a lot of info, so dropped triples

16:12:46 <mortenf> well, according to the script, it should be lastModified

16:13:01 <mortenf> i duplicated the line, and changed case, then it worked.

16:13:14 <libby> ok, cool

16:13:52 <mortenf> without looking too close, i think ical2rdf.pl is close to ok, but toIcal needs some work

16:13:59 <libby> ok

16:14:30 <libby> so are you happy with that?

16:14:34 <libby> shall we move along?

16:14:40 <mortenf> but i'll carry (again) the action, and hopefully reach some conclusions for improvements; yep.

16:14:58 <libby> thanks mortenf

16:15:03 <libby> D:action continues

16:15:25 <libby> keep up dc_rdfig

16:15:27 <libby> :)

16:16:04 <libby> eikco: RDF Calendar agenda item E: InterpretationProperties and time zones

16:16:04 <mortenf> and since dan² is not around, i guess we'll skip item E

16:16:10 <libby> right

16:16:32 <libby> E:not discussed

16:16:59 <libby> F is up to me, and I've not done anythign about it.... :(

16:17:10 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D4.

16:17:11 <dc_rdfig> Added comment E3.

16:17:25 <libby> F:not discussed

16:17:26 <dc_rdfig> Added comment F2.

16:17:40 <mortenf> that was a quick meeting :)

16:17:48 <bsmith> bsmith is now known as ghuo

16:17:52 <libby> I wanna show you something!

16:18:00 <libby> and maybe norm can talk about his stuff too

16:18:04 <mortenf> cool

16:18:09 <ndw> sure

16:18:23 <libby>http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/06/eventcreator/shell.html

16:18:23 <mortenf> B:[Morten|http://purl.org/net/morten/] present

16:18:53 <libby> B:[libby|http://ilrt.org/people/libby]

16:19:21 <libby> that url I just posted is a fairly silly jaavscript event creator thing

16:19:44 <mortenf> looks nice, but searching for "morten" returns 7 names, 2 photos

16:19:46 <danbri> B:[http://www.w3.org/People/DanBri/|danbri] lurking

16:19:54 <chaalsNCE> B:[chaals|http://www.w3.org/People/Charles] is morelurking than here

16:19:57 <ghuo> oooh

16:19:59 <libby> it grew out of this which is for photos: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/06/codjsform/shell.html

16:20:21 <libby> but just as a quick hack, came up with a couple of issues:

16:20:22 <mortenf> (phone)

16:20:57 * chaalsNCE having network problems :(

16:21:06 * mortenf is back

16:21:19 <libby> - identifyingevents is a problem

16:21:31 <libby> e.g. annotating the same event with new stuff

16:21:35 <chaalsNCE> I was thinking of trying to replicate it in Xforms. Any interest from elsewhere?

16:21:51 <chaalsNCE> (they're nice because they work client side...)

16:21:53 <mortenf> would it be possible to select an event from a search list?

16:22:04 <libby> yu can sorta do taht

16:22:21 <mortenf> but i guess that doesn't solve it completely

16:22:49 <libby> someone needs to asisgn it an event

16:22:59 <libby> can use uid mayeb (from icalendar spec)

16:23:08 <libby> sorry, someone needs to assign it a id

16:23:17 <mortenf> could they be auto-gen'ed?

16:23:43 <libby> that's an idea maybe

16:24:05 <libby> well, I just wanted to flag the issue

16:24:14 * libby tries to remember the other issue

16:24:28 <mortenf> what about owl:InverseFunctionalProperties (foaf-style)?

16:24:47 <libby> that's ok, but we do need to somehow generate a well-known uri

16:24:49 <libby> or id

16:24:57 <mortenf> can a uid be a uri?

16:25:34 <ndw> sortof: uuid:xxx or urn:uuid:xxx

16:25:43 <libby> uri would be better cos owl:Ifp disnt supposedd to work with data

16:25:43 <ndw> i don't think either are IETF specs though

16:26:06 <mortenf> how so libby?

16:26:11 <libby> the well-knownness is bugging me

16:26:12 * ndw mutters "whee! httpRange-14!"

16:26:33 <dc_rdfig> H: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/06/eventcreator/shell.html from libby

16:26:34 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B3.

16:26:35 * mortenf tries to find a way to block specific topics :)

16:26:35 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B4.

16:26:38 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B5.

16:26:39 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B6.

16:26:51 <libby> sorry, I'm being unclear. I think owl:ifp only workks with owl resource type things, not datatypes

16:26:55 <ndw> fwiw, i gave up and resorted to uuids for events (and addresses and other things) that don't have ids assigned some other way

16:26:59 <libby> I might be out of ate with that onbe

16:27:10 <mortenf> but we use it in foaf with mbox_sha1sum

16:27:18 <libby> hm...yeah

16:27:24 <libby> danbri?

16:27:39 <mortenf> anyway, a uri for the event would be easier

16:27:55 <mortenf> (if ignorant of certain issues)

16:27:58 <chaalsNCE> get a web service that will return a unique URI (because it keeps a counter and never gives the same thing twice...)

16:27:58 <libby> could maybe do it with foaf:homepoage or somesuch.

16:28:10 <libby> using uid would be better becaise part of icalendar rfc

16:28:23 <mortenf> indeed, uid would be best

16:28:32 <ndw> uid == uuid?

16:28:33 <libby> yeah maybe chaals. I'm not sure of the best way forward

16:28:42 <libby> ndw, not sure....I'll look it up

16:28:55 <chaalsNCE> it's a pretty simple perl script I suspect...

16:29:12 <ndw> if you're going to make up ids, uuid works really well. no web service required and statistically certain to be unique

16:29:43 <libby> [[

16:29:43 <libby> 4.8.4.7 Unique Identifier

16:29:44 <libby> Property Name: UID

16:29:45 <libby> Purpose: This property defines the persistent, globally unique

16:29:47 <libby> identifier for the calendar componen

16:29:49 <libby> ]]

16:30:08 <libby> [[

16:30:09 <libby> identifier is RECOMMENDED to be the identical syntax to the

16:30:09 <libby> [RFC 822] addr-spec.

16:30:10 <libby> ]]

16:30:33 <libby> that's a standard for arpa text messages

16:30:35 <mortenf> which is id@host, right?

16:30:38 <ndw> yep

16:30:49 <ndw> that's an ... interesting choice

16:30:55 <libby> heh

16:31:13 <libby> it's only recommended

16:31:31 <mortenf> but we can't force it to be a uri then

16:31:36 <ndw> I suppose that means you can reuse the message-id algorithm

16:31:39 <mortenf> well, a urn perhaps

16:31:45 <libby> maybe this needs summarising to the list

16:31:46 <ndw> urns are uris.

16:31:56 <mortenf> yeah

16:31:57 <libby> well, we could add another property I guess

16:32:02 <ndw> heck: mailto:random@random is a uri.

16:32:17 <mortenf> got it, just said it wrong

16:32:27 * danbri kinda catches up

16:32:34 <mortenf> did you think of the other issue libby?

16:32:42 <libby> yep :)

16:32:46 <danbri> unique identifiers for events are really really slippery... so many different sense of event

16:33:05 <danbri> event in the social sense of 'meeting' is maybe easier, as they can have homepages

16:33:13 <mortenf> in this case we're mostly trying to mirror ical?

16:33:23 <libby> it was simply that you need a clevr backend to do this stuff properly - a simple rdf db wont work because you need to know if an event is ongoing (it has already started and not finidhed)

16:33:35 <mortenf> hmm

16:33:43 <libby> yep, tryign to mirror ical

16:34:10 <libby> although could add stuff I guess, or use a different ns for something taht was important

16:34:39 <libby> re homepage danbri, I guess, although homepages of say conferences seem to change often

16:34:50 <libby> not much use for archival

16:34:58 <libby> I agree with you really

16:35:02 <mortenf> and i wouldn't want to have to make a page for my dentist appointment...

16:35:06 <libby> heh

16:35:25 <libby> "morten's dentist's approintment - the homepage'

16:35:29 <mortenf> :)

16:35:30 <ndw> really? i do. I have a "page" for all the appointments in my datebook

16:35:34 <libby> you coudl have a picture of your dentist....

16:35:46 <libby> before and after pic of you

16:36:01 <mortenf> currently my calendar is on dead trees

16:36:14 <ndw> most of them have URIs like this one :-): http://nodb-uuid-fe0f32f2-15da-4a72-83e4-138cfbf59f7a.htmlrman.walsh.name/pim/

16:36:14 <mortenf> stop now libby! ;)

16:36:31 <mortenf> hmmm...

16:36:42 <libby> hmmm

16:36:46 <ndw> most of them have URIs like this one :-): http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-fe0f32f2-15da-4a72-83e4-138cfbf59f7a.html even

16:37:23 <mortenf> ah

16:37:36 <libby> hmmmmm

16:38:52 <libby> H:|a very cruftily coded event generator experiment (with various rdf services providing data through searches) - only works with moz and IE win

16:39:09 <libby> ndw, would this be a good time for you to talk about what you've been working on?

16:39:33 <libby> H:issues: identifiers for events (e.g. search for one, add yourself to it)

16:39:51 <ndw> sure.

16:40:04 <libby> H:also - needs a clever backend database, that can work out that an event extende between its start and end dates

16:40:08 <libby> thanks ndw

16:40:21 <ndw> The setup is: my Palm is the only thing that has a prayer of keeping me organized

16:40:57 <ndw> But the Palm databases aren't very well coordinated. Appointments involve people; todo's are for events; memos are about events and people, etc.

16:41:37 <ndw> long story short: let's put the whole shebang into RDF. Then I add little N3-like things to the note field and I can have everything pulled together.

16:42:01 <libby> sound sfamilar re mixing diferent types and objects: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe/reports/dev_workshop_report_2/#usecases

16:42:18 <ndw> Step one is to synchronize the Palm with my desktop in XML. So I get records that look like this one:

16:42:48 <ndw> [[

16:42:50 <ndw> <appointment id="uuid-78492d2f-aacd-40e3-80cc-4f078d1516e0" palmid="F7B43C" category="cat-8">

16:42:50 <ndw> <description>W3C TAG</description>

16:42:50 <ndw> <alarm advance="5" units="minutes"/>

16:42:50 <ndw> <begin date="2002-05-13" time="15:00:00"/>

16:42:50 <ndw> <end date="2002-05-13" time="16:30:00"/>

16:42:51 <ndw> <repeat frequency="1" type="Weekly" days="1"/>

16:42:53 <ndw> <exceptions>

16:42:55 <ndw> <except date="2003-07-14"/>

16:42:57 <ndw> <except date="2003-07-21"/>

16:42:59 <ndw> <except date="2003-08-18"/>

16:43:01 <ndw> <except date="2003-08-25"/>

16:43:03 <ndw> <except date="2003-08-11"/>

16:43:05 <ndw> <except date="2003-09-01"/>

16:43:07 <ndw> </exceptions>

16:43:09 <ndw> <datebk4 category="8" timezone="GMT-5:00"/>

16:43:13 <ndw> <note>rdf:

16:43:15 <ndw> p:phone 617.761.6200

16:43:17 <ndw> p:code 0824#

16:43:19 <ndw> </note>

16:43:21 <ndw> </appointment>

16:43:23 <ndw> ]]

16:43:25 <ndw> This data is carefully crafted so that it syncs properly with the Palm.

16:43:34 <ndw> The little RDF sprinkles get pulled out and turned into proper N3 along with RDF for the individual appointments

16:44:08 <libby> do you use any of danC's tools ndw?

16:44:30 <mortenf> what xml format is that?

16:44:30 <ndw> No. I think I used to but I've hacked together my own set at this point.

16:44:41 <libby> ok

16:44:59 <ndw> One of my own invention. To be published real soon now as an update to my article on syncing with XML on developer.sun.com/blah/blah/whatever

16:45:15 <ndw> Eventually the record above becomes:

16:45:15 <ndw> [[

16:45:15 <mortenf> ah, so it's not a palm thing?

16:45:18 <ndw> <palm:Appointment rdf:about="http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-78492d2f-aacd-40e3-80cc-4f078d1516e0">

16:45:19 <ndw> <palm:category rdf:resource="http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-_8"/>

16:45:19 <ndw> <palm:uuid>78492d2f-aacd-40e3-80cc-4f078d1516e0</palm:uuid>

16:45:19 <ndw> <palm:id>F7B43C</palm:id>

16:45:19 <ndw> <palm:description>W3C TAG</palm:description>

16:45:20 <ndw> <palm:begin-date>2002-05-13</palm:begin-date>

16:45:22 <ndw> <palm:begin-time>15:00:00</palm:begin-time>

16:45:24 <ndw> <palm:end-date>2002-05-13</palm:end-date>

16:45:26 <ndw> <palm:end-time>16:30:00</palm:end-time>

16:45:28 <ndw> <palm:repeat rdf:resource="http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-78492d2f-aacd-40e3-80cc-4f078d1516e0#Repeat"/>

16:45:31 <ndw> <palm:exceptions rdf:resource="http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-78492d2f-aacd-40e3-80cc-4f078d1516e0#Exceptions"/>

16:45:34 <ndw> <palm:datebk4 rdf:resource="http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-78492d2f-aacd-40e3-80cc-4f078d1516e0#DateBk4"/>

16:45:37 <ndw> <palm:notes>rdf:

16:45:39 <ndw> p:phone 617.761.6200

16:45:41 <ndw> p:code 0824#

16:45:45 <ndw> </palm:notes>

16:45:48 <ndw> </palm:Appointment>

16:45:49 <ndw> ]]

16:45:52 <ndw> mortenf, i'm not sure what you mean. It's not an official Palm corporate thing, but it's definitely for the Palm :-)

16:46:15 <mortenf> but it could be used elsewhere, and it would be possible to use something else as well?

16:46:28 <ndw> All the apointment records (and the todo, memo, and addressbook records) get munged together by cwm. (wait, wait, wait, wait about 10 minutes for it to think)

16:46:39 <mortenf> heh

16:46:55 <libby> heh

16:47:01 <ndw> you could surely use the XML formats for other things. And for the RDF end, as long as you generate RDF that matches the RDF schemas that my downstream tools expect, you could start with anything.

16:47:31 <libby> come back dc_rdfig.... :(

16:47:36 <ndw> The next-to-last step is to load the combined RDF into Jena and walk over it building a calendar.

16:48:03 <ndw> So you get something like this:

16:48:03 <ndw> [[

16:48:05 <ndw> <rdf:Description rdf:about='http://nwalsh.com/rdf/calendar#day-2003-12-15'>

16:48:06 <ndw> <rdf:type rdf:resource='http://nwalsh.com/rdf/calendar#Day'/>

16:48:06 <ndw> <NS9:year>2003</NS9:year>

16:48:06 <ndw> <NS9:month>12</NS9:month>

16:48:06 <ndw> <NS9:day>15</NS9:day>

16:48:08 <ndw> <NS9:weekday>1</NS9:weekday>

16:48:10 <ndw> <NS5:appointment rdf:resource='http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-23b4889f-b7fa-4480-aa50-72dce828a29c'/>

16:48:13 <ndw> <NS5:appointment rdf:resource='http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-31744933-5c4b-47f5-85eb-29923dc74316'/>

16:48:18 <ndw> <NS5:appointment rdf:resource='http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-3fb66d50-fad2-4cc4-8805-5a6f95e364f4'/>

16:48:21 <ndw> <NS5:appointment rdf:resource='http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-78492d2f-aacd-40e3-80cc-4f078d1516e0'/>

16:48:24 <ndw> <NS5:appointment rdf:resource='http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-8a25ad00-761b-4638-9be2-6b115e33ff5c'/>

16:48:27 <ndw> <NS5:appointment rdf:resource='http://norman.walsh.name/pim/db-uuid-984c184b-d69a-456a-a795-f6206d6af999'/>

16:48:29 <ndw> </rdf:Description>

16:48:31 <ndw> ]]

16:48:41 <ndw> The "turn apointments into days of the week and process them sequentially to build an HTML calendar" problem just doesn't seem tractable in XSLT without a little massaging up front

16:48:56 <mortenf> i can imagine that!

16:49:32 <ndw> In principle, but not yet in practice, one could update the RDF and use it to rebuild the XML to sync with the Palm.

16:49:39 <ndw> But I haven't written that code yet.

16:49:52 <ndw> oops. brb.

16:49:54 <mortenf> sounds nice though, except for the wait...

16:49:57 <libby> so how do you update it?

16:50:31 <ndw> back.

16:50:47 <ndw> I update either the Palm directly or sometimes the intermediate XML form that syncs with the Palm

16:51:03 <ndw> ultimately, I want to write the conduits so that they sync directly with the RDF

16:51:23 <mortenf> so you build the palm-side stuff as well, or is that a standard sync thingy?

16:51:26 <libby> so one thing that i've just been talking about s the usefulness of being able to mix this data with other rdf calendar data

16:51:29 <ndw> But right now the conduits are in Perl and all the manipulation of the RDF is done with Jena and rdftwig.

16:52:08 <ndw> mortenf, the guts of pilot-manager keep the xml representation and the Palm hardware in sync.

16:52:12 <ndw> (did that answer the question?)

16:52:22 <mortenf> i think so, i don't know palm :)

16:52:55 <ndw> libby, i do mix some of this data with other RDF sources, (http://norman.walsh.name/knows/who, for example, comes from the RDF addressbook)

16:53:09 <libby> neat...

16:53:37 <ndw> ical seems to be the more standard format, but i haven't had time to investigate it

16:53:43 <libby> so you aren;t using the RDFCal icalendar stuff because it doesn;t map neatly via xslt to either the xml format or and html format, is taht right?

16:54:02 * timbl apologizes for latreness... was not in synch with his calendar

16:54:06 <libby> :)

16:54:09 <mortenf> heh

16:54:36 <ndw> well, mostly i'm not using it because my RDF calendaring schema bears little resemblence to the ical one

16:54:38 <libby> plam has buried somewhere a representation of icalendar, or I wouldnt be able to beam events from my phoien to my palm

16:55:18 <ndw> a mapping must be possible, i just don't understand ical well enough.

16:55:18 <libby> I'd say transformable...

16:55:56 <libby> hm, ok

16:55:58 <ndw> if/when i start working on the direct Palm<->RDF sync, i think it'll make sense to try to use an RDF ical representation rather than my own. but my own works :-)

16:56:18 <libby> not that I think it's the best representation ever, I just wondered if we weren;t doing enogh outreach or something

16:56:40 <libby> or maybe not providing enough reasons to use it

16:56:48 <ndw> one thing I can't deduce is how much variability there is in ical

16:56:54 <libby> in tools?

16:57:17 <libby> no theyu seem to keep it secret, although they do do interop testing, it's secret (understandably)

16:57:17 <ndw> for example, the SunOne calendaring software purports to sync in ical but I recall thinking that it looked quite different than the other ical stuff i'd seen

16:57:40 <ndw> secret? I thought it was an RFC

16:57:51 <libby> if you have any ical;endar data, we coudl use that for our tests

16:57:57 <libby> i mean the interop testing results

16:58:30 <ndw> next time I fire up the SunOne calendar, I'll try to remember to put some data in it and get it back out in ical for you

16:58:38 <ndw> (since I can't sync with it, i never use it.)

16:58:41 <libby> well that would be very kind :)

16:58:51 <timbl> Test data is what this group seems to need right now.

16:59:01 <libby> yeah i think so

16:59:09 <libby> and preferably cvaried testdata

16:59:12 <mortenf> yep, the more the better, and from various sources as well

16:59:16 <mortenf> :)

16:59:20 <ndw> anyway, i think that's my rdf calendaring story

16:59:45 <libby> and then I hink we need to decide which tests we agree to go in the schema too, rather than relying on just 3 source fiules as at the moment

16:59:49 <libby> thanks ndw

16:59:51 <ndw> would it be useful or interesting if I hacked up a few examples and a couple of screen shots?

16:59:54 <libby> interesting

16:59:57 <libby> very

17:00:30 <libby> so....

17:00:34 <ndw> ok. I presented an earlier version of this stuff at Extreme last year, I think, but I'll put some more recent examples online

17:00:40 <libby> ok, cool

17:00:50 <libby> does anyone else have any agenda items?

17:01:03 <libby> we still have date of next meeting to discuss

17:01:23 <mortenf> yep, and i'll be off in a couple of minutes

17:02:18 <mortenf> august 27?

17:02:25 <libby> theoretically we have another 30 mins scheduled, but I'm using up good will here by stealing bandwidth...

17:02:31 * libby checks

17:02:49 <ghuo> hey all

17:02:54 <ghuo> i've been lurking

17:02:59 <libby> hey ghuo

17:03:01 <ghuo> but regarding testing,

17:03:02 <mortenf> xmlhack.com is back up

17:03:13 <ghuo> i've been hacking a bit at ical2rdf.pl and toIcal.py

17:03:18 <libby> the bot's gone tho...

17:03:23 <mortenf> nice, ghuo

17:03:27 <libby> oh yes ghuo?

17:03:51 <ghuo> i haven't added anything yet

17:03:51 <libby> mortenf, not 13th aug?

17:04:01 <libby> what do you want to do with it?

17:04:02 <mortenf> well...

17:04:02 <ghuo> i've just been trying to get a feel for what they support now

17:04:22 <ghuo> but i'm aiming to have some of the test cases in 2002/12/cal actually pass :)

17:04:24 <mortenf> could do, but likely not able to have anything by then

17:04:36 <libby> nice ghuo :)

17:04:53 <mortenf> 20th aug? :)

17:05:01 <libby> so are you guys talking to each other? (mortenf and ghuo?)

17:05:20 <libby> either is fine for me at the moment

17:05:22 <mortenf> heh, we're all talking i think

17:05:35 <libby> 27th is fine ...maybe we need a break, and many people are away

17:05:37 <mortenf> ghuo, can you make it 20th aug?

17:05:38 <ghuo> we had a short chat about regression testing

17:05:46 <libby> cool

17:05:49 <ghuo> i should be able to

17:06:04 <mortenf> does anyone have insight in dan*2's calendars?

17:06:25 <libby> so if we can get danc to come, regression testing would be a good topic

17:07:00 <mortenf> DanC or DanC-AIM around?

17:07:46 <libby> let's suggest by email, see if he and others can make it for that topic. if not, we can go shead and talk about other stuff

17:08:01 <mortenf> ok, 20th at 16Z?

17:08:20 <libby> ok, cool

17:08:35 <libby> if you're around later when the chump's back, could oyu chump it mortenf?

17:08:51 <mortenf> sure

17:09:05 <mortenf> bye now

17:09:16 <libby> bye mortenf, thanks :)

17:09:34 <libby> ----meeting adjourned----

17:09:56 <danbri> thx lib, sorry for mostly lurking...

17:10:01 <libby> s'ok

17:11:50 <libby> bye!

17:22:20 * timbl had to reboot a cable modem.

17:31:53 * chaalsNCE waves to jibberjim

17:32:38 * danbri wonders where Jim is today

17:36:30 * JibberJim has never had the gumption to leave Vancouver...

17:36:53 <dajobe> chaalsNCE: http://f14web.com.ar/inkel/blog/

17:37:21 <dajobe> one of the semantic web blogs I've found, this one's in argentina

17:37:24 <dajobe> darn

17:40:01 <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. Fairly massive clonebot attack, apologies, we'll clean it up

17:50:00 <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. We'll open things back up presently.

17:50:14 <DanC-AIM> .time

17:50:17 <datum> Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:50:13 GMT

17:51:08 <ndw> Faulty wristwatch, DanC-AIM? :-)

18:02:50 <kota_> kota_ is now known as kota

18:09:44 <DanC> no, faulti AIM<->IRC bridge.

18:09:49 <DanC> faulty even

20:55:40 <mortenf> G:We meet again on [August 27th at 16:00 UTC|http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=20&month=8&year=2003&hour=16&min=0&sec=0&p1=0]

20:55:48 <mortenf> hmm

20:57:09 <Cardinal> The chump proably didn't make it back after freenode's little fiasco earlier today.

20:57:22 <dajobe> hmm

20:57:24 <mortenf> apparently it died earlier

20:57:27 <dajobe> hold on

20:58:42 <mortenf> thx

20:59:00 <mortenf> dc_rdfig, view

20:59:01 <dc_rdfig> D: RDF Calendar agenda item D: Regression tests, round-tripping (blurb)

20:59:02 <dc_rdfig> E: RDF Calendar agenda item E: InterpretationProperties and time zones (blurb)

20:59:03 <dc_rdfig> F: RDF Calendar agenda item F: skical optimeset (blurb)

20:59:04 <dc_rdfig> G: RDF Calendar agenda item G: Next meeting? (blurb)

20:59:05 <dc_rdfig> H: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/06/eventcreator/shell.html

20:59:10 <mortenf> G:We meet again on [August 27th at 16:00 UTC|http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=20&month=8&year=2003&hour=16&min=0&sec=0&p1=0]

20:59:11 <dc_rdfig> Added comment G1.

21:00:05 <mortenf> d'oh

21:00:13 <mortenf> G:We meet again on [August 20th at 16:00 UTC|http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=20&month=8&year=2003&hour=16&min=0&sec=0&p1=0]

21:00:14 <dc_rdfig> Added comment G2.

21:00:19 <mortenf> d'oh!

21:00:22 <mortenf> G1:We meet again on [August 20th at 16:00 UTC|http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=20&month=8&year=2003&hour=16&min=0&sec=0&p1=0]

21:00:24 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment G1.

21:00:27 <mortenf> G2:""

21:00:28 <dc_rdfig> Deleted comment G2.

21:00:50 * mortenf thinks he shouldn't really be talking to the chump today...

21:02:11 <mortenf> H:Javascript Event Creator

21:02:11 <dc_rdfig> Added comment H1.

21:02:22 <mortenf> H1:By Libby

21:02:23 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment H1.

21:02:25 <mortenf> H:|Javascript Event Creator

21:02:26 <dc_rdfig> Titled item H.

21:03:27 <mortenf> H:Based on [Javascript Photo Annotator|http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/06/codjsform/shell.html]

21:03:28 <dc_rdfig> Added comment H2.

21:04:25 <mortenf> H:According to Libby a very cruftily coded event generator experiment (with various rdf services providing data through searches) - only works with moz and IE win

21:04:27 <dc_rdfig> Added comment H3.

21:04:38 <mortenf> H: issues: identifiers for events (e.g. search for one, add yourself to it)

21:04:39 <dc_rdfig> Added comment H4.

21:04:46 <mortenf> H:also - needs a clever backend database, that can work out that an event extende between its start and end dates

21:04:47 <dc_rdfig> Added comment H5.

21:04:51 <mortenf> H:issues: identifiers for events (e.g. search for one, add yourself to it)

21:04:52 <dc_rdfig> Added comment H6.

21:04:54 <mortenf> H6:""

21:04:55 <dc_rdfig> Deleted comment H6.

21:04:59 <mortenf> H4:issues: identifiers for events (e.g. search for one, add yourself to it)

21:05:00 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment H4.

21:11:43 <rO|__> rO|__ is now known as rO|

21:20:37 <GabeW> jj

21:20:41 <GabeW> arg

21:20:43 <GabeW> sorry

21:29:56 <chaalsNCE> H:

21:29:56 <dc_rdfig>http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/06/eventcreator/shell.html

21:29:57 <dc_rdfig> Javascript Event Creator

21:29:58 <dc_rdfig> (1:mortenf) By Libby

21:29:59 <dc_rdfig> (2:mortenf) Based on [Javascript Photo Annotator|http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/06/codjsform/shell.html]

21:30:00 <dc_rdfig> (3:mortenf) According to Libby a very cruftily coded event generator experiment (with various rdf services providing data through searches) - only works with moz and IE win

21:30:01 <dc_rdfig> (4:mortenf) issues: identifiers for events (e.g. search for one, add yourself to it)

21:30:02 <dc_rdfig> (5:mortenf) also - needs a clever backend database, that can work out that an event extende between its start and end dates

21:41:43 <mdupont> hi all!

21:42:10 <mdupont>http://cvs.eby-sarna.com/PEAK/src/peak/metamodels/

21:42:11 <dc_rdfig> I: http://cvs.eby-sarna.com/PEAK/src/peak/metamodels/ from mdupont

21:42:30 <mdupont> iwaim: CVS of Peak Project, contains a set of very up to date XMI sources

21:42:35 <mdupont> I:CVS of Peak Project, contains a set of very up to date XMI sources

21:42:36 <dc_rdfig> Added comment I1.

21:44:13 <mdupont>http://cvs.eby-sarna.com/*checkout*/PEAK/src/peak/metamodels/UML_1.5_02-09-03.xml?rev=1.3&content-type=text/plain

21:44:14 <dc_rdfig> J: http://cvs.eby-sarna.com/*checkout*/PEAK/src/peak/metamodels/UML_1.5_02-09-03.xml?rev=1.3&content-type=text/plain from mdupont

21:44:42 <mdupont> J:|the UML 1.5 metamodel in xmi

21:44:43 <dc_rdfig> Titled item J.

21:45:37 <mdupont> XMI Metamodels are in some way going to get into RDF. I just have not figured out how. Others have done good experiments.

21:47:31 <dajobe> hi mdupont - you disappeared/disconnected last night when I just said I added csharp to redland

21:47:44 <dajobe> the raw dumb interface works with Mono and dotGNU

21:47:48 <dajobe> using swig 1.3.19

21:48:20 <mdupont> dajobe: !!! yes!

21:48:26 <mdupont> that is SOO GREAT!!!

21:48:36 <dajobe> the web service thing I think I get, but it's more an application you can play with

21:48:45 <dajobe> it's not really usable at all yet

21:48:49 <mdupont> me picks dajobe on this shoulders!

21:48:57 <dajobe> calm down ;)

21:49:21 <mdupont> dajobe: do you think it would work? the idea is to put a central shared redland instance, and one per session

21:49:22 <dajobe> it was being ubilt into swig that made it easy for me

21:49:36 * mdupont has commited some changes to swigsharp

21:49:52 <mdupont> at least I help get it going and patches in

21:49:53 <dajobe> It's a possible app, you have a play

21:49:54 * danbri watches mdupont carry a blushing dajobe on his shoulders through the streets of Freenode

21:50:31 <mdupont> hey danbri, hows things going ? it looks like we are going to finally have a semantic web

21:50:38 <mdupont> with semantic web agents

21:50:49 <mdupont> dajobe? did you check it in?

21:50:53 <dajobe> yeah

21:51:28 <mdupont> dajobe you want to have an account on demo.dotgnu.org? please send me your public keys. :)

21:51:31 <danbri> things generally ok, i'm flailing around uselessly with some RDF Schema edits, need to pull my finger out and get a couple more fixes to the spec done

21:51:41 <danbri> how about you?

21:52:49 <mdupont> cool. I am finally getting some stuff done.

21:52:56 <mdupont> less chatting, more working

21:53:07 * danbri grins

21:53:08 * mdupont checks out the latest redland

21:54:26 <dajobe> mdupont: re account, not right now. I'm still trying to not increase my development load (yeah, ha ha, laugh) and get redland moving on

21:54:35 <mdupont> ok

21:54:39 <mdupont> you worry about redland

21:54:49 <mdupont> i will try and help you with dotgnu

21:54:55 <mdupont> and getting them working better

21:55:05 <danbri> btw http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-rdfprov.html -- the code for this worked out of the box on my machine, w/ a recent redland

21:55:32 <mdupont> like making a cleaner api interface into dotgnu.rdf

21:55:35 <dajobe> that's good, edd wanted me to ship before it appeared, but it didn't make it

21:56:12 <mdupont> let me see if I can find the c# stuff

21:57:25 <mdupont> what can you do with desire-perl?

21:58:10 <dajobe> eh? in the cvs? that's some of danbri's (+ others) stuff

21:59:03 <mdupont> danbri: that is cool! i am happy to see redland getting good press

21:59:23 <danbri> desire-perl... best left to the historians!

21:59:40 <danbri> it's 1998/9-era rdf stuff... based on mozilla design sort of.

21:59:50 <mdupont> Updating librdf/csharp

21:59:57 <mdupont> ok, that looks good

22:00:12 <dajobe> the test.cs is a proof that the toolchain works, it's not a test

22:00:20 <mdupont> dajobe: did you find any of the stuff I did useful for the csharp interface?

22:00:50 <dajobe> I'm still not a C# reader

22:00:58 <dajobe> the web service stuff didn't seem appropriate for this level

22:01:14 <dajobe> and I think rather than going with the SWIG generated stubs, a more iditomatic thing is more appopriate.

22:01:24 <mdupont> ok

22:01:24 <dajobe> idiomatic

22:01:35 <mdupont> so what have you done? used swig or pinvoke manually?

22:01:39 <dajobe> so I'm going to primaril talking to the pinvoke

22:01:52 <dajobe> I've not deleted the default generated Redland.cs yet, but I will

22:03:40 <mdupont> ok

22:03:47 <mdupont> that is what i did for the webservice

22:03:55 <mdupont> but i did not put any effort to make it work

22:04:00 <mdupont> just to be valid xmlrpc

22:04:11 <mdupont> now with your update, I can make it work as well

22:04:13 <mdupont> thanks

22:04:24 <mdupont> you saved me so much work!

22:17:16 <ericP> heya james, get my plea for grammar help?

22:17:45 <ericP> (for instance, the previous sentence had no main verb or subject)

22:19:09 <ericP> i'll bug you tomorrow

22:23:03 <mdupont> hey ericP!

22:23:25 <mdupont> i wish you could answer my question about the 5 artiry functions

22:23:30 <mdupont> they throw me off

22:23:47 <mdupont> I was wondering if you know of any application like ispell, but in lisp or some cool AI system that you can feed it buches of synonyms and data to determine the compound words roots.

22:25:50 <mortenf> hmm, in latest .13 snapshot, raptor fails on bad-15.rdf (+ 16 and 17)

22:26:01 <dajobe> Unicode NFC checking

22:26:10 <dajobe> if you don't have gnome glib 2.0, it can't do them

22:26:13 <mortenf> ah, ok, then it's ok

22:26:15 <mortenf> yep

22:26:19 <dajobe> yeah

22:26:30 <dajobe> I was going to fiddle with the testing to say something like that

22:26:41 <mortenf> np - you are here to explain :)

22:26:51 <mdupont> ericP: i think i dont understand your syntax what is the specification document for it?

22:26:56 * mdupont googles

22:27:22 <mortenf> g'nite all

22:32:38 <mdupont> danbri: you wrote a algea convertre

22:33:19 <mdupont> ask foo

22:33:20 <mdupont> > ( ?ps ?ps ?o [?ps != t:zzz][%ATTRIB == t:attrib1].

22:33:20 <mdupont> > ?s ?p ?o .

22:33:20 <mdupont> > (?s ?ps ?o || ?s ?p ?o [?s != ?p])

22:33:20 <mdupont> > ~ ?s t:l1 ?zzz [?zzz < 4].

22:33:20 <mdupont> > ~ ?s t:l2 ?zzz # --------^ added a dot here

22:33:22 <mdupont> > )

22:33:37 <mdupont> ?ps ?ps ?o [?ps != t:zzz][%ATTRIB == t:attrib1].

22:33:54 <mdupont> that is like strange

22:34:21 <mdupont> i dont see how the [] blocks fit in, all the subject, object, predicate slots are filled,

22:48:36 <mdupont> burtonator!