Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2003-08-08

00:12:58 <danbri>http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1388637

00:12:59 <dc_rdfig> A: http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1388637 from danbri

00:13:32 <danbri> A:|Commentary: Web Standards (Paul Ford, NPR, Aug 7 2003).

00:13:33 <dc_rdfig> Titled item A.

00:14:03 <danbri> A:On Web standards, XML, RDF and suchlike. (realaudio)

00:14:03 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A1.

00:14:49 <danbri> A:Nearby: Paul's [http://ftrain.com/|ftrain.com].

00:14:50 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A2.

00:16:08 <danbri> A:Pretty short piece, but always interesting to hear a voice you've only previously read...

00:16:08 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A3.

00:21:21 <danbri> A:IMHO he's spot on with the [http://www.ftrain.com/google_semweb_commentary.html|web as spreadsheet] prediction...

00:21:21 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A4.

00:49:57 <DanC-AIM> Spreadsheet... Nifty...

00:51:10 * danbri suprised to have heard more about Web Service integration into MS Excel...

00:54:22 <danbri> A:see also [http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnexcl2k2/html/odc_xlws.asp|XML Web Service-Enabled Office Documents], from Microsoft.

00:54:22 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A5.

02:20:10 <ChanServ> [#rdfig] This channel is logged and blogged: http://logicerror.com/rdfIRCWelcome

02:48:04 <MarkB> A:and also [http://www.knownow.com/support/devguide/Excel_Connector_Users_Guide/Excel_Connector_Users_Guide_HTMLTOC.html|KnowNow's Excel Connector]

02:48:22 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A6.

02:54:31 <DanC-AIM> byebye

04:55:18 <bitsko> bitsko is now known as bitsko|sleep

05:47:10 <md-ZZZz> md-ZZZz is now known as GNUMonkey

07:09:25 <GNUMonkey> GNUMonkey is now known as md-work

07:34:56 <swh_away> swh_away is now known as swh

10:40:04 <swh> swh is now known as swh_coffee

11:12:59 <swh_coffee> swh_coffee is now known as swh

11:14:43 <swh> dajobe: that music rdf file went in ok; models:2346 triples:18941531 resources:3736044 literals:2132734 classes:189 properties:8066

11:15:12 <dajobe> is there a web view of that?

11:15:45 <swh> kinda: http://triplestore.aktors.org/browse/?resource=http%3A%2F%2Fmusicbrainz.org%2Fartist%2Fb10bbbfc-cf9e-42e0-be17-e2c3e1d2600d

11:15:55 <swh> gets you in at Teh Beatles node

11:16:06 <swh> in nmgs browser UI

11:16:19 <dajobe> you might want to mail some musicbrainz people & let them know

11:16:30 <swh> dajobe: btw, was there anything odd about the handling of seq ids in old versions of raptor?

11:16:30 <dajobe> there is an email list somewhere, AaronSw would know

11:16:41 <dajobe> I don't think so

11:16:48 <swh> im getting a lot of properties that have 0x01 etc in them

11:17:08 <swh> and the version i asserted that data into had no special handling for sequences

11:17:20 <swh> odd

11:17:23 <dajobe> do you not handle ordinal properties?

11:17:33 <swh> not explicitly

11:17:40 <dajobe> well that's why

11:17:51 <swh> the current version of raptor just returns the canonical URI AFAICT

11:17:52 <dajobe> if(statement->predicate_type == RAPTOR_IDENTIFIER_TYPE_ORDINAL) ...

11:18:01 <dajobe> then convert to the long form, if you like

11:18:08 <dajobe> no it doesn't

11:18:13 <swh> really?

11:18:32 <dajobe> it's pretty clear from the interface

11:18:47 <dajobe> you get resources, bnodes, predicate uris, ordinal uris, literals

11:18:59 <dajobe> s/ordinal uris/ordinals integers/

11:19:25 <swh> in 0.9.11 RAPTOR_IDENTIFIER_TYPE_ORDINAL wasnt set and strncmp ing the predicate uri worked

11:20:20 <dajobe> nope, no URI has ever been made for rdf:_1 in the statement handler callback

11:21:16 <swh> well somethings funny in my version then

11:21:43 <dajobe> clearly when you print ntriples, you get it

11:21:55 <swh> if (!strncmp(pred, MEMBER_PREFIX, 44)) detected all the seq uris and RAPTOR_IDENTIFIER_TYPE_ORDINAL didnt

11:21:57 <dajobe> but if you run 'rapper' by default the simple output shows [rdf:_1]

11:23:20 <swh> could it be an ntriples bug?

11:23:28 <swh> cos it definatly wasn;t doing that on the rdf testcases

11:23:38 <dajobe> we were discussing rdf/xml?

11:23:47 <dajobe> yeah, it could be

11:24:37 <dajobe> I don't recall doing that for ntriples, so I should look

11:25:13 <swh> yeah, its just broken for ntriples

11:25:14 <dajobe> yup, I missed that

11:25:32 <dajobe> it always makes a predicate and fails to detect ordinals

11:25:47 <swh> right, np, its easy to detect

11:26:03 <swh> how does it handle non-integer ordinals BTW?

11:26:08 <dajobe> there aren't any

11:26:15 <swh> ok, illegal?

11:26:18 <dajobe> I wonder why I picked ordinal

11:26:21 <dajobe> parser error

11:26:29 <dajobe> rdf:_0 -> illegal

11:26:29 <swh> cool

11:26:32 <dajobe> rdf:_-1 -> illegal

11:27:06 <swh> the first seq member looks like it comes back with val 0 though, do I have to +1 it to get a uri form back?

11:27:06 <dajobe> I thought it was handier having the integer value than the URI of such predicates

11:27:31 <dajobe> no

11:27:48 <dajobe> you'll have to give me more information - what syntax, what example are you talking about?

11:28:16 <swh> well the only stuff I've seen is the mbdump.rdf file, but thats too big to poke around in comfortably

11:36:33 <swh> dajobe: ok, yes, its starts at 1

11:37:52 <dajobe> the MB stuff is handy

11:38:07 <dajobe> I should find somebody to email about the duff xml comment

11:38:35 <dajobe> so the URI of "the beatles as an artist" could be http://musicbrainz.org/artist/b10bbbfc-cf9e-42e0-be17-e2c3e1d2600d

11:38:36 <swh> dajobe: its a nice test case

11:38:53 <dajobe> lunch...

11:40:33 * danbri and maxf translating rdf core schemas

11:40:40 <danbri> (well, he's translating, i'm typing)

11:44:32 <danbri> "The subject of the subject RDF statement"

11:44:39 <danbri> rdfs:comment for rdf:subject

11:44:42 <danbri> ugh!

11:59:23 <bitsko|sleep> bitsko|sleep is now known as bitsko

12:21:03 <DanC_jam> eek... Undo undid too much. how does one redo in vi?

12:21:36 * ndw mutters something about using emacs

12:22:12 * DanC_jam usually uses emacs

12:22:21 * DanC_jam got the answer in #debian; loves freenode tech support

12:41:42 <bitsko> a while back I ran across a web site that hosted a "timestamp" URI space, but now can't find it in google. anyone know what site that is?

13:15:19 <danbri>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/TR/WD-rdf-schema-20030117/combined-ns-translation.rdf.fr

13:15:21 <dc_rdfig> B: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/TR/WD-rdf-schema-20030117/combined-ns-translation.rdf.fr from danbri

13:15:53 <danbri> B:|First cut at RDFS and RDF terms translated into French

13:15:53 <dc_rdfig> Titled item B.

13:16:19 <danbri> B:By MaxF w/ help from French W3C team in IRC.

13:16:19 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B1.

13:16:46 <danbri> C:Comments welcome (I guess to www-rdf-comments@w3.org and mf@w3.org, though the WG hasn't endorsed or published this yet).

13:16:46 <dc_rdfig> Label C not found.

13:17:04 <stecay> DanC, '.' (period) is vi redo

13:17:54 <swh> in traditional vi you will undo-undo too

13:17:59 <swh> ctrl+R in vim

13:18:16 <swh> ser you=u ;)

14:28:40 * DanC_jam heads to the conference/road

15:12:07 <DanC-AIM> BLURB: Extreme Markup: on Thompson, Sperberg-McQueen talks

15:12:09 <dc_rdfig> C: Extreme Markup: on Thompson, Sperberg-McQueen talks from DanC-AIM

15:13:31 <DanC-AIM> HT gives background: infoset, extended infoset, access to those extensions

15:22:38 <DanC-AIM> HT reviews reflection...

15:22:59 <DanC-AIM> HT on normal forms... Ala striped RDF...

15:36:49 <DanC-AIM> HT we extend xpath with p:reflect()

15:38:03 <DanC-AIM> HT the reflection is, abstractly, infinite, so there are xpaths that don't terminate. So don't do that.

15:38:25 <DanC-AIM> (much much text on slides)

15:38:50 * danbri wonders if having these sorts of talks broadcast would undermine business models of conference-holders

15:39:10 <danbri> I enjoyed watching Ruby etc talks online at that MIT small languages conference, also Spam conference...

15:40:31 <DanC-AIM> /me thought about whether I'm licensed to do this, and decided I pretty much am.

15:42:14 <DanC-AIM> Dianne kennedy said idealliance is going to put effort into collaboration at a distance, to continue conversations between conferences.

15:42:54 <DanC-AIM> I haven't managed to show what esw/rdfig does.

15:43:49 <DanC-AIM> But I wonder if idealliance knows what their up against... Marketplace of attention and all that.

15:51:01 <DanC-AIM> Darn... Can't stay for Q&A... Gotta get bags to car

15:51:29 <DanC-AIM> Got ok to present rdfig collab facilities. Fro msm

15:51:49 <DanC-AIM> Danbri, can you conjure up 3 slides in the next 25min

15:51:54 <libby> neat :)

15:51:55 <DanC-AIM> ?

15:54:17 * danbri catches up

15:55:02 <danbri> huhwhat eh? I'll have a think.

15:55:11 <danbri> erk that was 4 minutes ago. a short think.

15:55:18 <danbri> anyone else got bullet-point ideas?

15:56:37 <danbri> something like Slide 1: W3C and Interest Groups --- (a) compliment small, high workload WGs; more people, less 'work' (b) Mailing-list based (f2f rare) (c) exploring other collab media

15:58:05 <danbri> Slide 2: RDF Interest Group (a) shared history with XML-DEV; original RDF-DEV list was seed for W3C RDF IG in '99 (b) early focus for feedback on 1st RDF specs (c) where many current WG members 'surfaced'

15:58:43 <danbri> Slide 3: RDF IG collaboration(s), (a) the usual mailing list participation challenges (www-rdf-interest, www-rdf-logic, www-rdf-rules, ...)

15:59:46 <danbri> (b) also IRC (widely used around W3C) for real time chat, but logged and with IRC-to-weblog link sharing for those not 24x7 IRCers

16:00:29 <danbri> (c) IRC and rdfig.xmlhack.com weblog popular but hard to reorg knowledge we're accumlating; is frozen at midnight each night, hence experimenting with Wiki

16:00:35 * danbri runs out of steam, ideas

16:00:43 <danbri> didn't mention scheduled topic chats yet

16:01:40 <danbri> one might note that W3C process optimised for heavy commitment (teleconferences etc); for IG members, often international phone calls are expensive, employer doesn't necc bankrole, so exploring other technologies more suited to loose knit collaboration

16:02:22 <danbri> ...in that way, IG collaborations (such as www-rdf-calendar) are perhaps more like many Open Source projects than an industrial standardisation effort.

16:03:06 <danbri> ...emphasis on incremental development, no big up front design, test cases etc (influence of XP...), also Wiki as rough and ready shared space

16:03:23 * danbri pauses...

16:03:27 <danbri> that makey sense?

16:03:40 <danbri> DanC, I'm not _really_ sure what you're after, audience etc. Maybe something useful in the above for you?

16:03:53 <libby> makes sense to me

16:04:12 <libby> interesting bit is the publicnes of iut all, and (with chats) the paper trail

16:05:01 <libby> it's also great to be able to say: these people will try and help you

16:06:13 <danbri> hmm yes that's true.

16:06:28 <danbri> IMHO RDF really started taking off once we moved primary discussions into public space...

16:06:54 <danbri> After seeing RDF-DEV and the IG gel, the notion of doing a Member-visible hidden from public WG just seemed old fashioned...

16:07:13 <libby> I'm not sure we make sufficient use of the knowledge base we've accumulated through the chump

16:07:16 <danbri> Also something to do with target audience... a lot of opensourcey, academicy folk found RDF appealing

16:07:26 <danbri> ...and many of them weren't working for W3C Member orgs or likely to.

16:07:33 <danbri> chump -- quite

16:07:54 <libby> this is maybe where it contrasts somewhat with the focus of topicmaps, at leat initially

16:07:57 <danbri> thhere are xml dumps though I suspect many don't realise that

16:08:03 <libby> although they've been moving more public too

16:08:05 <danbri> topicmaps, lots of smallish companies

16:08:40 <libby> the TMQL stuff's public...there's an irc channel too I think...

16:09:07 <danbri> for me, a big appeal of freenode irc is the proximity of other related discussions

16:09:09 <danbri> or semi-related

16:09:42 <danbri> I'm currently on #ruby-lang, #foaf, #ilrt, #infoanarchy... but dip into others

16:09:50 <danbri> and #rdfig

16:11:19 <libby> well stone me, my chump search is still going: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2001/04/rdfig/

16:11:39 * danbri hurls a rock

16:11:42 <danbri> showoff! ;)

16:12:11 <danbri> hi reagle!

16:12:16 <reagle> hi danbri

16:12:58 * libby wonders about rss channels of search results for that

16:25:02 <DanC-AIM> /me catches upp...

16:27:24 * libby has laptop swiped by danbri

16:27:46 <libby> 'mailing list participation challenges' ...thinko, i meant 'mailing list partitioning challenges' or something suitably grammatical

16:28:05 <libby> ...ie. the art of figuring out when to partition groups into sub-lists

16:28:30 <libby> (and implied role of irc/wiki/weblog as potential cross-cutting social 'glue' (to mix metaphors))

16:29:15 <libby> eg. someone might get into RDF via calendar, join www-rdf-calendar but not www-rdf-interest, yet be a little more integrated because they learn about #rdfig, esw wiki, rdfig.xmlhack.com etc

16:29:19 * libby returns laptop to libby

16:30:09 <libby> git

16:32:18 * DanC_jam discovers an ethernet port in the conference room...

16:34:38 <DanC_jam> hmm... how do those /subpages work?

16:35:33 <DanC_jam> ok... http://esw.w3.org/topic/InternetRelayChat_2fExtremeMarkupStory

16:36:44 <reagle> reagle is now known as reagleLUNCH

16:37:15 * DanC_jam gets the boot

16:51:03 <DanC-AIM> Missed lunch putting a slide together, only to discover there's no projection now.

16:51:23 <DanC-AIM> Made a poster, got permission to announce it.

16:52:13 <danbri> was my slide fodder any use?

16:53:40 <danbri>http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/2003/08/08.html#a773

16:53:41 <dc_rdfig> D: http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/2003/08/08.html#a773 from danbri

16:54:07 <danbri> D:|An RSS/RDF epiphany, Jon Udell (Aug 8, 2003)

16:54:07 <dc_rdfig> Titled item D.

16:54:36 <danbri> I think I managed to give a couple slightly wrong impressions, but it does seem like a useful dialog to have started...

16:54:57 <danbri> "I've long suspected that we won't really understand what it means to mix XML namespaces until we do some large-scale experimentation. What I hadn't fully appreciated, until just now, is the deep connection between RDF and namespace-mixing."

16:57:13 <danbri> Hey, does anyone rememeber a paper posted here in last year or so... It talked about design patterns for XML schemas where extensibility, namespace mixing, loose coupling etc were priorities.

16:57:25 <danbri> Very sensible piece, I can't remember enough to find it though.

17:04:42 * eikeon has been hiding in corner but has not quit ;)

17:10:37 <libby> hey eikeon

17:16:49 <DanC-AIM> Gave esw/rdfig announcement.

17:19:37 <libby> how'd it go?

17:21:04 <danbri> D:Related xml.com piece on [http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2003/03/26/patterns.html|xml schema design patterns].

17:21:05 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D1.

17:22:32 <DanC-AIM> Went well enough, I guess.

17:23:13 <DanC-AIM> Door prizes given out (ora books, courtesy simon stl)

17:23:14 <DanC-AIM> -- Sperberg-McQueen "playing by the rules"

17:23:39 * ndw pouts again, missing the closing keynote

17:27:04 <bitsko> bitsko is now known as bitsko|away

17:28:56 <DanC-AIM> ... Mix assembly language excercise 22...

17:28:57 <DanC-AIM> ... Digression into benefit of early detection of errors...

17:31:54 <danbri> D:Also (this is closer to the paper I'm hunting for, but not it) [http://www.xfront.com/composition-versus-subclassing.html|XML Schema: Best Practices - Composition versus Subclassing].

17:31:54 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D2.

17:40:39 <DanC-AIM> "if jenny tennison gets type system errors when she writes XSLT 2.0, what hope can there be for the rest of us?"

17:40:40 <DanC-AIM> "the real danger of following the rules is that you train yourself to think inside the box"

17:40:42 <DanC-AIM> "as Tim Bray says, 'we are all running around with DTD-shaped holes in our heads.'"

17:44:28 * danbri isn't... never lived that life

17:44:42 <danbri> I have an RDF-shaped hole, of course...

17:56:38 <DanC-AIM> "the purpose of the rules of ettiquite is not to constrain everyone to be polite, but to allow us to tell the difference. It is impossible to snub someone unless they know what you're doing."

18:11:19 <DanC-AIM> "our grasp on reality is necessarily partial"

18:11:20 <DanC-AIM> "I know there's gravity. If I don't publish a paper on it, it will still work." [re tommie's ramrks that the impoertant rules of xml not being in the xml sepc]

18:25:21 * sandro finds and reports a bug in an approved owl test case.

18:56:32 * bijan dying on the Transformation to Triples table

18:57:40 <sandro> what sort of dying?

18:58:05 <bijan> See webont comments :)

18:58:47 <bijan> It's unclear whether having an O rdf:type owl:Ontology triple is optional

18:58:51 <bijan> As is stated by the reference

18:59:07 <DanC-AIM> I took a few 1kilopixel pictures of the people there.

18:59:18 <bijan> And it's really unclear what to do with muliple owl:Ontology s type statements

18:59:20 <DanC-AIM> We're on the road to NY now.

18:59:28 <bijan> Though they seem required for certain things (e.g., owl:imports)

18:59:43 <bijan> And claimed to be possible by reference.

19:02:19 <bijan> I'm also unclear if the various annotationPropertyID productions imply that there are disjoint sets of AnnotationProperties

19:02:42 <bijan> (If not, I'm unclear why ontology properties were singled out)

19:07:21 <sandro> Ah.

19:14:56 <timbl_> What is an Ontology?

19:16:29 <sandro> it's evidence that WebOnt has a slightly odd view of documents and communication via the Web. :-)

19:17:31 <sandro> woohoo. up to 67% of OWL Positive Entailment Tests passed.

19:18:24 <danbri> :)

19:18:50 <DanC-AIM> Cvs commit, quick!

19:19:11 <DanC-AIM> /me wishes for one of those commit-bots

19:20:30 <sandro> the only thing changed since the last commit was raising a timeout. :)

20:22:12 <bijan> An ontology is that denoted by the subject of an rdf:type owl:Ontology statemetn

20:22:22 <bijan> And I have no idea about the slightly odd view of documents, etc.

20:22:27 <bijan> I just want to know aobu thte grammar :)

20:39:57 <sandro> "<bijan> An ontology is that denoted by the subject of an rdf:type owl:Ontology statemetn" oh, now that's useful. :)

20:41:25 <sandro> Hmmmm. I wonder if looking-up-the definitions, and slowly increasing the diameter, would be a good strategy for working with a reduced set of axioms....

20:43:40 <dajobe> I asked "what is an OWL Ontology?" as an OWL LC comment and pfps replied: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webont-comments/2003May/0123.html

20:45:06 <sandro> thanks, dajobe!

20:45:25 <dajobe> however I don't see owl:Ontology as particularly useful. It doesn't connect to the things "in" the ontology; you need the document that they were made in pretty much, and OWL doesn't tell you how the doc<>ontology relate

20:45:53 <dajobe> well, apart from owl:imports and that's done implicitly

20:46:16 <sandro> right.

20:46:39 <sandro> that's what struck me as "slightly odd" or wahetver I called it. I can see where it came from, of course, but it really seems much more XMLish.

20:46:45 <sbp> we noticed that the other day in #foaf in yet another "what is a namespace?" discussion

20:47:28 <dajobe> if you read the OWL abstract syntax, the containment of ontology & terms is explicit, but that isn't represented in the triples. The "XML" OWL does.

20:52:39 * sandro gets up to 76% of the PETs. Wow. (But for some of those the performance is so bad it's a little misleading to say it passes.)

20:52:58 <dajobe> it's always the last few that are the bggrs

20:54:06 <sandro> Well, the CR exit criterion says 80%, so that's actually my target. :-) Unlike with the RDF Core syntax tests, these are not really all expected to be runnable.

20:54:24 <dajobe> yes, but everyone can't do the same 80% :)

20:54:33 <sandro> but getting from 60% to 76% took more work than 0-60%.

20:55:20 <sandro> True, someone's got to do each test. I should make sure I'm doing 100% of the OWL FULL ones, since I expect Network Inference to hit 100% on all the DL ones.

20:55:56 <dajobe> btw, there might be another OWL validator turning up

20:56:02 <dajobe> but I can't give out details just yet

20:56:42 <sandro> that's nice.

20:57:15 <sandro> i still haven't announced the thing I'm working on, though it is in public cvs/web space, so it's hardly secret.

21:00:21 * danbri gives up on robots.txt stuff for tonight http://www.w3.org/2001/12/rubyrdf/pack/tests/robotexclusion/tc_robots.rb

21:00:33 <danbri> should have been a real quick job, not in mood for it...

21:35:06 * bijan agrees, at least in spirit, with the complainst about owl:Ontology

21:35:27 <bijan> But I'm focused on some very specific issues :)

21:36:05 <bijan> sandro, what reasoner are you using to do the owl tests

21:36:24 <sandro> otter

21:36:41 <bijan> ARe you usign the TPTP stuff of sean?

21:36:57 * sandro makes the otters barking sound, and balances a ball on his nose

21:37:59 <sandro> No, Sean translates the AbSyn to FOL in a DL-meaningful way. I'm just turning every triple into rdf(s,p,o) and then adding FOL axioms. (plus a little number theory for datatypes).

21:38:14 <sandro> I dont think his approach will get to OWL full.

21:38:28 <bijan> Definitely not

21:38:44 <sandro> But we need two owl full implementations. Thus my approach....

21:39:11 <sandro> There's nothing otter specific that I'm doing -- it's just FOL theorem proving.

21:39:23 <sandro> I just happen to be comfortable with otter.

21:39:37 <bijan> So are you translating to (a different) TPTP?

21:39:50 <bijan> I.e., once you've done that, you get all the compatible provers free.

21:40:33 <bijan> WEll, "free" pace the horrible pain that is TPTP2X

21:41:15 <sandro> :-) yeah -- going by way of tptp is not high on my to do list but its possible of course.

21:41:41 <bijan> Is there an otter to TPTP?

21:41:46 <bijan> That woudl make it all so much easier :)

22:21:29 <sandro> I dunno, but I have an otter parser I wrote floating around somewhere. And I'm thinking I need to do a bunch of programmatic manipulation anyway -- figure out what's missing in the Horn subset, etc.

22:22:19 <sandro> Display it in some very readable form, maybe, for people comfortable with FOL to think about.

22:56:34 <GNUPredator>http://demo.dotgnu.org/~mdupont/introspector/cwm.rdf.gz

22:56:35 <dc_rdfig> G: http://demo.dotgnu.org/~mdupont/introspector/cwm.rdf.gz from GNUPredator

22:57:10 <GNUPredator> G:|DotGNU Converted Virtual Machine Description in RDF/XML Format

22:57:11 <dc_rdfig> Titled item G.

22:58:07 <DanC-AIM> 2 bars of gprs...

22:58:19 <DanC-AIM> Hi from I87 in NY, just north of albany.

22:59:41 <GNUPredator> cool

22:59:46 <GNUPredator> you have gprs?

23:02:23 <DanC-AIM> Yup. Cf http://dm93.org/z2001/WearableGizmo

23:03:27 <libby> you've done well out your wearable gizmo this trip DanC-AIM :)

23:04:31 <DanC-AIM> Yeah, it's been GREAT! You haven't seen the driving directions, restaurant addresses, and 101 other uses. Gotta write an article.

23:05:17 <libby> nice :)

23:07:20 <danbri> did you enjoy Extreme? seemed like it from the constant stream of interesting quotes :)

23:08:51 <DanC-AIM> Kinda small... But several interesting bits. High density of niftiness then, I guess.

23:10:28 <DanC-AIM> The stuff from u. Bologna was worth the price of admission.

23:10:43 <DanC-AIM> I neglected to say so in person, though