Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2003-09-25

00:05:06 <eaon> eaon is now known as eaon|zZz

00:23:25 <JimJibber> JimJibber is now known as JibberJim

01:30:46 * DanC tries jjc's nxml-mode

01:46:38 <DanC> wow.

01:48:26 <danbri> nifty? :)

01:48:28 * sbp grins

01:48:33 * danbri saw dave using it

01:49:11 * sbp wouldn't be surprised if it got a few more XML users using emacs

02:29:21 <eaon|zZz> eaon|zZz is now known as eaon

02:50:54 <eaon> eaon is now known as eaon|zZz

05:59:37 <sethl_lap> does anyone happen to know the semantics behind <link> in RSS 1.0? I'm trying to find a definitive (if possible) answer.

10:57:35 <eaon|zZz> eaon|zZz is now known as eaon

12:22:00 <JimJibber> JimJibber is now known as JibberJim

13:05:47 <dajobe> hi swh, I guess I should reply to your mail

13:06:46 <swh> dajobe: no hurry, I've got a lot on at the moment

13:07:02 <swh> are you planning to release the backend bridge code?

13:07:10 <dajobe> I'll stick it in the cvs, yeah

13:07:26 <swh> ok, i'l try to get the fixes in a release of 3store in a few weeks time

13:07:32 <dajobe> I should take out the rs_flush probabbly :)

13:07:33 <swh> bughunting at the moment

13:07:40 <swh> dajobe: yeah, might be a good idea :)

13:07:59 <dajobe> hmm, it didn't seem to delete the db

13:08:15 <swh> dajobe: it removes the triples in the model you specified when you connected

13:08:24 <swh> rs_connect("some-model-uri") IIRC

13:10:25 <dajobe> I still got 464855 triples

13:11:23 <dajobe> so there is no way to cleanly shut down the DB?

13:11:32 <swh> exit() ;)

13:11:56 <dajobe> I didn't say shut down the program

13:11:56 <swh> no, there isn't, but theres no handging state - everything is commited immediatly

13:12:09 <swh> *hanging

13:12:19 <swh> I'l add an rs_disconnect()

13:12:59 <dajobe> I've aded the rdf_storage_tstore.c

13:24:00 <swh> Is there going to be an RDF query BOF session at ISWC?

13:31:28 <dajobe> no idea, nobody round here is going

13:32:46 <JibberJim> Are wearable computer guys interested in RDF?

13:33:22 <dajobe> no idea, nobody round here is going

13:35:06 <dajobe> hmm, now I get shared library clashes again lib_com something v2, v3

13:36:34 <dajobe> anyway, redland configure --with-threestore=INSTALLDIR works

13:37:12 <swh> dajobe: what does lib_com do?

13:37:21 <dajobe> something near crypto or ssl

13:37:36 <swh> hmm... maybe mmysql client library needs it

13:37:39 <dajobe> so it might be mysql/ssl/kerberos clashing twith curl

13:37:46 <swh> yup

13:38:17 <dajobe> ... /usr/bin/ld: warning: libcom_err.so.3, needed by ... libraptor.so, may conflict with libcom_err.so.2

13:40:11 <swh> I have: /usr/lib/libcom_err.a

13:40:11 <swh> /usr/lib/libcom_err.so

13:40:11 <swh> /usr/kerberos/lib/libcom_err.so.3.0

13:40:11 <swh> /usr/kerberos/lib/libcom_err.so.3

13:40:11 <swh> /usr/kerberos/lib/libcom_err.a

13:40:12 <swh> /usr/kerberos/lib/libcom_err.so

13:40:14 <swh> /lib/libcom_err.so.2

13:40:16 <swh> /lib/libcom_err.so.2.0

13:41:00 <swh> mysql clietn lib must pick it up indirectly

13:42:46 <swh> no, i cant see where the clash is

13:43:14 <dajobe> I'm looking too

13:44:27 <swh> libssl needs libcom_err.so.3

13:56:56 <dajobe> aha

13:57:47 <dajobe> it's your fault

13:58:01 <dajobe> the "-L/usr/lib" at the start of librdfsql.la

13:58:10 <dajobe> means it picks up the wrong libcom_err

13:58:26 <dajobe> I mean in librdfsql.la: a line: dependency_libs=' -L/usr/lib ..."

14:08:39 <swh> dajobe: wheres that come from? Its not explicit - must come from pkgconfig I think

14:11:28 * dajobe tries another tacjk

14:14:50 <dajobe> that seems to work better; I stoped using the librdfsql.la

14:22:50 <dajobe> swh: my "just works" - means all the 3store via redland api is working, no extra fuss

14:23:12 <ndw> OT, what's the setup/protocol/etc. for logging/blogging an IRC channel? I think I'd like to set it up for the #docbook channel.

14:23:48 <dajobe> I do a lot of the logging, since I wrote the bot. several channels run it themselves.

14:24:01 <dajobe> the blogging stuff is generally via the chump software, links from rdfig.xmlhack.com for all of them

14:24:20 <ndw> Thanks, I'll go digging. Presumably the folks that run freenode have to do at least part of the work, yes?

14:24:40 <dajobe> no

14:24:41 <ndw> Or does it just run somewhere and connect to the channel like a regular user?

14:24:44 <dajobe> that's it

14:24:47 <ndw> kewl!

14:24:55 <dajobe> and I run #rdfig,#foaf and some w3c ones

14:25:08 <dajobe> in fact, the W3C zakim started as my code

14:26:04 <dajobe> the only issue seems to be good network connectivity, the bots don't like intermittent access such as dialup/bad cable/DSL etc.

14:26:29 <swh> dajobe: ah, good. on both counts :)

14:27:06 <ndw> Zakim is *saweet*. I now miss it dearly for all calls not on the zakim bridge.

14:34:49 <Talliesin> was someone here saying earlier this week that they removed language code from a project because of the ISO fees issue?

14:35:23 <dajobe> me

14:35:48 <dajobe> I wasn't going to restrict my free (as in freedom) software to non-commercial use

14:35:55 <dajobe> or employ a lawyer to find out

14:36:32 <Talliesin> Do you have online notes on the project's progress or similar that I could reference?

14:37:27 <dajobe> not really, there is just a CVS changelog entry of me deleting the fle

14:38:24 <Talliesin> I'm drafting a motion, and it would be good if I could point to ISO's move having a negative effect on a piece of software.

14:38:45 <dajobe> see http://www.redland.opensource.ac.uk/raptor/ChangeLog on 2003-07-21

14:39:32 <karlcow> -> french joke - http://www.fixedbyfix.com/Autrans/WebSemantique/metadata01.jpg

14:39:54 <dajobe> somebody told me that the french for LOL abbreviated to RDF; I was amused at that

14:40:23 <karlcow> it says on the wall "Fuck the co..." and the guy says "It's not a tag (graffiti) it's metadata."

14:42:57 <_joshua> we should replace it with a one letter code.

14:43:14 <_joshua> I'm from x

14:43:24 <_joshua> Welcome to sunny X

14:44:07 <Talliesin> Cheers dajobe, that sould help.

14:44:54 <Talliesin> _joshua, never discuss changing ISO codes - it quickly gets you into bizarre highly-politicised discussions with very weird people.

14:45:02 * Talliesin shudders at the memories

14:45:04 <_joshua> giggle

14:46:05 <Talliesin> oh, you're giggling now...

14:46:14 <Talliesin> you won't be when it happens to you.

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14:48:02 Users on #rdfig: logger Talliesin reagleBRKLN ndw burtonator Morbus JimH_ JibberJim sniffles kao maxf swh caz iwaim nmg dajobe Schuyler jeen karlcow Wack Esaj danbri mea_culpa dmiles_afk jllykifsh mdupont shellac chrisc dhmspector arnarl dngor sbp golbeck [Oblomov] ericm tav rreck DanCon steez ericP sandro datum jordan bitsko xover xower MarkB grault tansaku_ mmealling kham merriam tansaku deltab grove eikeon sin_drome GabeW _joshua dc_rdfig

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14:50:06 <dajobe> what a pain, I thought I'd made that code write only correct utf8

14:57:40 <ndw> dajobe, have you tried logger under Perl 5.8.0?

14:58:18 <dajobe> that's what it's running on now

14:58:30 <dajobe> you just need the Net::IRC module

14:58:57 <ndw> Hmm:

14:58:58 <ndw> zeus:~/logger$ logger testpass irc://irc.openprojects/net/docbook DocBook /home/ndw/logger http://localhost/

14:58:58 <ndw> Use of uninitialized value in subroutine entry at /usr/lib/perl/5.8.0/Socket.pm line 201.

14:58:58 <dajobe> let's see. I'm running version 0.73

14:58:59 <ndw> Bad arg length for Socket::pack_sockaddr_in, length is 0, should be 4 at /usr/lib/perl/5.8.0/Socket.pm line 201.

15:00:10 <ndw> Nevermind: stupid typo in the irc URI :-)

15:00:22 <dajobe> oh yeah

15:00:35 <dajobe> that's a new class tagged into logger

15:02:05 <dajobe> I think it might be in the core Perl URI class now

15:07:14 <ndw> ndw is now known as docbook-logger

15:08:07 <docbook-logger> docbook-logger is now known as ndw

15:59:23 <DanCon> .time

15:59:23 <datum> Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:59:23 GMT

17:11:02 <DanCon> hmm... i was just going to try to formalize the "use of predicate implies consent" position, but I realize we already did that, didn't we sandro?

17:11:26 <sandro> the Dingo thing?

17:11:26 <DanCon> is it this one? http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/util/autoimport.n3

17:14:05 <sandro> not sure; that formulation is pretty tied up with cwm hackery (log:rawType ?!)

17:14:40 <sandro> and I think I hear Tim say log:racine wouldnt be needed there any more.

17:16:24 * DanCon tries to remember how mode=a works

17:16:40 * DanCon studies http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/test/ferrell/myDingo.n3 <- http://esw.w3.org/topic/UseImpliesConsent

17:17:51 <DanCon> no mention of treating the predicate special in UseImpliesConsent

17:18:14 <DanCon> seems pretty clear to me that the predicate is special. it's special in C and lisp function calls. Why shouldn't it be special in RDF?

17:18:31 <DanCon> in fact, it's special in the RDF semantics too (though that's an editorial choice)

17:19:06 <DanCon> rather: seems pretty reasonable to me to treat the predicate as special

17:19:56 * DanCon looks around for documentation of mode=a

17:20:07 <DanCon> if folks want to know what timbl's position is, I think that's where to look

17:20:10 <sandro> I'll let others argue about special-ness of predicates.

17:20:44 <DanCon> I don't see any mode=a test in http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/test/regression.n3

17:26:22 <DanCon> hmm... manual polling of RecentChanges feels dumb... maybe it's time to take the RSS plunge...

17:26:35 <DanCon> anybody here tried multiticker? "GNOME applet to provide scrolling RDF/RSS news tickers"

17:27:16 * DanCon surfs, finds http://www.ourpla.net/cgi/pikie?RssReaders

17:33:14 <DanCon> multiticker crashes on launch

17:35:08 <JibberJim> Good! it sounds like a ghastly application.... but then I think I'm sensitive movement - the lights on my wireless card disturb me.

17:49:02 <DanCon> this straw RSS reader seems to work

17:49:09 * DanCon wanted an applet, but will try this for a bit

17:49:28 * reagleBRKLN has used knewsticker, but now really likes the rawdog aggregator

17:51:43 <reagleBRKLN> this is what my feeds look like when i read them: http://reagle.org/joseph/rawdog/rawdog.html

17:52:06 <reagleBRKLN> written in python, generates valid html, supports efficient http

17:52:45 <DanCon> how often do you scan that list?

17:53:02 <DanCon> the effect I was looking for was a subtle notice when there's something new

17:53:16 <DanCon> scan that page, rather

17:54:04 <reagleBRKLN> that's indicated by the visited links...

17:54:07 * ndw uses rssview(.sf.net)

17:54:17 <reagleBRKLN> when i had the place where's i've read before, i see visited links

17:55:43 <JimH_> JIbberJim wrote "the lights on my wireless card disturb me." - which seemed to me like the perfect straightline for a hideous pun or at least a devastating retort- unfortunately, I cannot come up with one -- fooey!

17:55:52 <DanCon> what's cool about rssview, ndw?

17:56:00 <DanCon> BLURB: favorite RSS readers

17:56:01 <dc_rdfig> A: favorite RSS readers from DanCon

17:56:03 <DanCon> logger, pointer?

17:56:03 <DanCon> See http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-09-25#T17-56-03

17:56:19 <DanCon> A:see [http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-09-25#T17-56-03|discussion]

17:56:19 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A1.

17:57:09 <ndw> Supports a couple of different UI styles; stores (some) config in XML; keeps history of items seen; I hacked at the sources once a while ago :-)

17:58:09 <zoyd> a: Snownews(http://home.kcore.de/~kiza/software/snownews/) Text mode RSS newsreader for Linux and Unix. uses GNOME's libxml.

17:58:12 <DanCon> A:discussion of rawdog (python, http-happy), rssview(.sf.net)

17:58:12 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A2.

17:58:20 <DanCon> A:multiticker, straw

17:58:20 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A3.

17:58:27 <zoyd> a: Snownews(http://home.kcore.de/~kiza/software/snownews/) Text mode RSS newsreader for Linux and Unix. uses GNOME's libxml.

17:58:57 <zoyd> what the hell, i'm typing "A:" it's showing "a:"!

17:59:07 <DanCon> get rid of the space after A:

17:59:14 <DanCon> some IRC client mangle stuff

17:59:15 <sbp> XChat autocorrection. there's a person in here called "a"

17:59:38 <DanCon> also, make a link ala: [http://home.kcore.de/~kiza/software/snownews/|Snownews]

18:00:03 * DanCon returns to regularly scheduled interrupts, i.e. email inbox

18:00:30 <zoyd> A: [http://home.kcore.de/~kiza/software/snownews/|Snownews] Text mode RSS newsreader for Linux and Unix. uses GNOME's libxml.

18:00:31 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A4.

18:00:50 * JimH_ braces for next set of DanC responses ... (we're on too many of the same lists these days :->)

18:08:13 <reagleBRKLN>http://pim.kde.org/components/konsolekalendar.php

18:08:13 <dc_rdfig> B: http://pim.kde.org/components/konsolekalendar.php from reagleBRKLN

18:08:34 <reagleBRKLN> B:One could put an RDF translator in front of this thing? "KonsoleKalendar is a command line interface to KDE calendars. It lets you view, insert, remove, or modify calendar events by way of the command line or from a scripting language"

18:08:34 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B1.

18:26:08 <JimH_> foo - OWL langauge now the top hit on the Second page of Google for OWL (up from 64th at beginning of 2003, and 14th before CR) -- you guys need a few more links to get us onto page one :->

18:26:46 * JibberJim will donate a link

18:26:53 <dajobe> I would guess there is no 1 page for OWL

18:27:06 <dajobe> several owl wds, not clear which one to pick etc.

18:27:20 <JimH_> the reference doc is the one with highest Google juice...

18:28:02 <JimH_>http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3081191

18:28:02 <dc_rdfig> C: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3081191 from JimH_

18:28:19 <zoyd> isn't it also a bird ;)

18:28:21 <JimH_> C:|Some press on Timbl's talk at Royal Society

18:28:22 <dc_rdfig> Titled item C.

18:29:17 <sbp> May 2001? heh

18:29:33 <sbp> (referring to "Since Berners-Lee and a few other leaders at the W3C first mentioned it in May 2001, that vision has increasingly become a leading focus of the W3C's work.")

18:29:36 <JimH_> see also [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3131562.stm|BBC Interview w Timbl]

18:29:43 <JimH_> C: see also [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3131562.stm|BBC Interview w Timbl]

18:29:44 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C1.

18:31:12 <JimH_> C:[http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=6941|and what MacWorld noticed]

18:31:12 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C2.

18:31:18 <sbp> heh: "which the W3C has given the acronym OWL, solely because it sounds better than WOL"--I wonder how many times that's going to have to be explained?

18:31:53 <sbp> argh, I missed the interview

18:31:56 <JimH_> sbp - it's explained in the FAQ quite clearly :->

18:31:56 <deltab> have you seen the Pooh quote?

18:32:35 <sbp> JimH: it should be <strong>'d at the top of the specs! :-)

18:32:39 <sbp> deltab: no?

18:33:00 <JibberJim> I thought it had french roots, their acronyms always seem backwards...

18:34:09 <deltab> at the bottom of http://www.w3.org/2003/08/owlfaq

18:35:05 <sbp> ahh

18:35:32 <JimH_> ooh - I like that JibberJim - next time someone asks me about the acronym I could just look disgusted and say "but of courze, it's een French!" :->

18:37:10 <sbp> that'd be LOW, though, I think

18:37:32 <sbp> which isn't bad. you could make a logic language called HIGH then

18:38:56 <deltab> except a French name would use 'Oueb'

18:39:13 <sbp> LOO. heh

18:42:36 <JimH_> sbp - check out http://www.fotolog.net/vlist/?photo_id=749403 why I love England

18:43:16 <sbp> heh, heh. yeah, I've seen those about

18:43:25 <sbp> makes me proud to have visited them

18:44:02 <JibberJim> you're tempted to test them out with some sort of dirty protest I hope...

19:41:45 <sconn_> sconn_ is now known as sconn

19:43:06 <JimJibber> JimJibber is now known as JibberJim

20:16:10 <karlcow> I was wondering if it is possible to create constant numbers in n3.

20:18:01 <karlcow> in as """{ (pi) math:cos :x} => { :x :valueOf "cos(pi) = -1" } . """

20:18:10 <karlcow> How do I define pi ?

20:19:26 <soccos> soccos is now known as soccos-

20:30:00 <ldodds> can someone answer a dumb Jena question?

20:30:26 <ldodds> how do I generate rdf:Description rdf:about=""

20:31:47 <ldodds> In Jena1 I just did createResource("") but Jena2 doesn't like that

20:40:49 <timbl-taxi> karicow, you can';t make constant numbers. You can make RDF nodes. If you use cwm in the latest version and in --closure=e mode it will smush things.

20:41:26 <karlcow> hmmm :/ I'll have to read that, or find an example.

20:41:33 <karlcow> Thanks Tim.

20:41:42 <timbl-taxi> This means if you say pi = 3.1415926575323846 then it will replace all occurernces of pi with 3....

20:42:13 <timbl-taxi> If you don't want to use smushing, then you can slightly more verbosely use a class for example

20:42:58 <karlcow> for pi = 3..... it has to be in the python code or in the n3 file?

20:43:02 <timbl-taxi> 3.141 a Pi. { (2 [ a :Pi] ?r ).math:product ...

20:43:14 <timbl-taxi> in the n3 file.

20:43:14 <karlcow> I'moh ok

20:43:20 <karlcow> oh cooool

20:43:22 <karlcow> :)

20:43:22 <timbl-taxi> In n3, "=" means owl:sameAs.

20:43:37 <timbl-taxi> timbl-taxi is now known as timbl

20:43:47 * ndw wonders if timbl is really in a taxi

20:43:51 <ndw> s/is/was/

20:44:04 <karlcow> Thanks Tim. Now I will be able to make test cases for n3 trigo

20:44:18 * timbl was, finds chatzilla is a bit random about on which servers itchanges ones nick

20:44:32 <ndw> What's your mobile access device?

20:44:46 <timbl> GPRS phone

20:44:55 <timbl> with bluetooth so it can be in my bag

20:45:11 <ndw> Sweet.

20:45:36 <timbl> I just used it in UK and france with some success, but the ppp connection would drop out quite eeasily.

20:45:51 * ndw has no GPRS phone, no bluetooth, no powerbook. Is starting to feel alpha-geek challenged :-)

20:46:07 <timbl> Seems that using a connection-oriented thig like PPP rather defeats the purpose fo a connectionless netwrok layer.

20:46:41 <karlcow> Is there somewhere on the swap sites, a doc which explains how do you run your n3 test file?

20:46:47 <timbl> real geeks use swiss army knives and bell wire.

20:47:09 * ndw chuckles

20:47:11 <timbl> karlcow, cvs -d test

20:47:18 <DanCon> cvs update -d test

20:47:31 <timbl> cd test

20:47:32 <timbl> make

20:47:38 <karlcow> hmm ok :)

20:47:47 <timbl> That runs python retest.py regression.n3

20:48:25 <karlcow> which means my files has to be declared in regression.n3

20:48:51 <karlcow> (was a question)

20:49:23 <timbl> You can put a test/syntax/detailed.tests if you like, like ltest/list/detailed.tests

20:49:30 <DanCon> PPP? yeah, that does seem odd.

20:50:55 <karlcow> hmm odd

20:50:57 <karlcow> 10/swap/test karl% make

20:50:58 <karlcow> PYTHONPATH=`/bin/pwd`/.. python retest.py -c regression.n3 list/detailed.tests online.tests norm/detailed.tests

20:50:58 <karlcow> Traceback (most recent call last):

20:50:58 <karlcow> File "retest.py", line 35, in ?

20:50:58 <karlcow> import llyn

20:50:58 <karlcow> File "/Users/karl/Sites/w3.org/WWW/2000/10/swap/llyn.py", line 150, in ?

20:51:00 <karlcow> from query import think, applyRules, testIncludes

20:51:02 <karlcow> File "/Users/karl/Sites/w3.org/WWW/2000/10/swap/query.py", line 11, in ?

20:51:04 <karlcow> from thing import merge, intersection, minus, indentString

20:51:06 <karlcow> File "<string>", line 130

20:51:08 <karlcow> <<<<<<< thing.py

20:51:11 <karlcow> ^

20:51:12 <karlcow> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

20:51:14 <karlcow> make: *** [all] Error 1

20:51:15 <timbl> When you are done making a fairly thorough test you can put that in regression.n3

20:51:29 <DanCon> <<<<< is a sign of cvs conflicts

20:51:32 <timbl> <<<<<<< ouch --- means cvs conflict

20:51:54 <karlcow> will remove it

20:52:13 <DanCon> er... remove it with care. you need to resolve the conflict somehow

20:52:25 <karlcow> remove it locally

20:52:33 <DanCon> if you didn't mean to make any changes to thing.py, you can do: rm thing.py; cvs update thing.py

20:52:37 <karlcow> ;) to see if it's mine which is bad

20:53:19 <karlcow> ok better now :)

20:53:30 <karlcow> I have mistakes in mine modules :) will fix that

20:59:57 <dajobe> B:|KDE Konsolekalendar

20:59:57 <dc_rdfig> Titled item B.

21:00:53 * karlcow is trying to solve an indentation problems and doesn't see it on lin 95 of cwm_trigo.py

21:01:09 * karlcow needs a pair of glasses

21:09:01 <DanCon> hmm... any nxml users here? it says Invalid, but I don't know where the error is. Is there a "goto next error" thingy?

21:10:15 <ndw> C-c C-n, I think

21:10:32 <DanCon> yeah, cool. thanks!

21:10:34 <ndw> np

21:10:37 <DanCon> how'd you know that?

21:10:42 <DanCon> I read lots of docs

21:10:54 <ndw> It's the emacs standard for 'next error' in all the various compiler UIs

21:11:12 <DanCon> really? I thought C-x ` was

21:12:02 <ndw> I've never used that one. The back tick would be way to irritating to me

21:12:05 <DanCon> nxml rocks. Just add hypertext linking support, and it's all over.

21:12:42 <ndw> James has talked about adding XInclude support, which would be cool too.

21:12:54 * ndw plans to publish the next version of XML Spec in RNG, XSD, and DTD

21:13:41 <ndw> What would you want hypertext linking support to do?

21:13:49 <DanCon> "paste link" ala AOLPress/Nexus.

21:14:04 <ndw> I'm not familiar with AOLPress/Nexus

21:14:34 <DanCon> you go to the destination. Mark it somehow. Go to the link source, select some text. hit the "make link" key. done.

21:15:34 * DanCon can't believe the world still hasn't experienced immersive hypertext editing

21:16:36 <DanCon> mozilla composer still pops up a "now type in the URL" dialog box when you hit the "make link" thingy. sigh.

21:16:54 <ndw> Sounds nice.

21:17:08 <DanCon> the win95 UI has paste link. why not mozilla composer? oh well.

21:18:18 * DanCon tries to remember if ndw was in the XML WG

21:18:52 <DanCon> nxml seems almost obvious. Yes, took lots of hacking, but... why couldn't the XML WG see that this was the future? oh well.

21:19:01 <DanCon> why are we burdened with parameter entities?

21:19:26 * DanCon wonders what the rate of parameter-entity related errata is these days...

21:20:52 <DanCon> ew... I thought I was joking... but I see a fresh one dated 2003-08-06 in http://www.w3.org/XML/xml-V10-2e-errata

21:21:48 <ndw> No, DanCon, I wasn't in the original WG. Paul, Eve, and I all worked for Arbortext at the time.

21:23:24 <ndw> brb

21:36:58 <tav> tav is now known as tav|offline

21:43:50 <tav|offline> tav|offline is now known as tav

22:57:09 <soccos-> soccos- is now known as soccos

23:22:38 <soccos> soccos is now known as soccos-