Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2003-10-22

00:03:01 <danbri> bnode doesn't come into it, really. bnodes aren't things, they're representations of things.

00:03:15 <danbri> can something be an rdfs:Class and an owl:Class? yes.

00:03:27 <danbri> some things, i'm told, are the former but not the latter.

00:51:14 <sandro> I wonder if that's true in DL, Full, or what. Hrmph.

01:31:53 <sandro> Anyone know what a cab from RSW to Sundial runs?

01:33:30 <JibberJim> I know DanC can cycle it in under 30 minutes, maybe he'll let you stand on the back?

01:38:10 <sandro> can cycle from the airport? I think not! Mapquest shows it as 24.6 miles.

01:47:49 <DanC_RSW> cab from RSW to sundial... I did that... umm... $50 + tip, I think

01:48:02 <DanC_RSW> you want to make a reservation with sanibel taxi, per iswc homepage

02:17:11 <DanC_RSW> .time

02:17:11 <datum> Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:17:11 GMT

02:23:49 <sandro> Hrm. Looking at Artemov's paper I'm not sure "reflection" and "theories of mental states" are the same thing.

02:28:40 <sandro> Hm, http://www.elsevier.com/inca/publications/store/6/8/0/8/3/9/index.htt looks very cool. I wish I could understand it better.

02:29:47 <sandro> (not cheap either)

02:42:39 <Davey> Davey is now known as D[a]vey

03:41:30 <dmiles_afk> janw was here?

03:41:33 <dmiles_afk> wow!!!!

03:41:40 <dmiles_afk> hi md-afk

03:41:44 <dmiles_afk> and others

03:42:10 <dmiles_afk> have JanW here is like having an apearance by Guha

03:45:38 <dmiles_afk> oh guess he didnt come to IRC

04:30:05 <D[a]vey> D[a]vey is now known as Davey

05:01:59 <Davey> Davey is now known as D[a]vey

09:24:12 <libby> so nmg and co won the SW challenge?

09:24:45 * chaalsBRS didn't watch the chump...

09:29:47 <libby> it seems so, nice one :)

09:35:08 * libby grumbles at the censorship

09:42:43 <dajobe> it bugged me too

09:43:14 <dajobe> luckily it's very rarely needed

09:43:17 <libby> true

09:43:28 <libby> and if he didn;t realize it was logged, it's sorta fair

09:43:50 <dajobe> he sorta did since he mentioned reading the logs

11:01:33 <larsbot> dajobe: you interested in TM blogs for your semblog list?

11:01:46 <dajobe> sure

11:02:52 <larsbot> here's one: http://topicmaps.it.bond.edu.au/weblogs.mc

11:03:25 <larsbot> and here's another: http://www.techquila.com/blog/

11:03:28 <dajobe> that's a list?

11:03:34 <larsbot> no, those are actual blogs

11:03:49 <dajobe> ok

11:03:58 <dajobe> you are in australia?

11:04:10 <larsbot> a third one: http://www.shelter.nu/

11:04:19 <larsbot> no, I'm very much in Norway (brrrrr!)

11:04:43 <larsbot> the australian one is produced by a chump, by me and Robert Barta (who is in .au) in collaboration

11:05:24 * dajobe follows the links to http://www.ontopia.net/topicmaps/irc/irclog/

11:07:07 * dajobe tries to invent some titles for these sites

11:07:55 <larsbot> yeah, the first one really should have a title

11:08:04 <larsbot> it's really the blog for #topicmaps

11:08:05 <dajobe> "Topic Maps blog at Bond University, Australia"

11:08:09 <larsbot> fine by me

11:08:50 <dajobe> techquila's kal ahmed?

11:08:54 <larsbot> yeah

11:09:29 <dajobe> he wins; his family name is earliest in the list

11:09:29 <JibberJim> dajobe, in your RDF list of bloggers you use the title of the blog as the name of the Agent who creates it, would it be not better to just give the dc:title of the blog itself, and not name the person?

11:10:10 <dajobe> sometimes the title is the name of the person

11:10:14 <dajobe> sometimes there is no one person

11:11:13 <JibberJim> Yeah, but SBP's for example is "Miscoranda by Sean B. Palmer" and it means that my tools think there are people claiming that is his name, which I think is wrong for you to be generating those claims.

11:11:54 * dajobe fears putting on his XSLT head again

11:12:18 <JibberJim> Only if you're looking at it, it's not disastrous.

11:12:34 <dajobe> semweb may contain lies

11:13:18 <JibberJim> exactly, although there's no authorative info on sbp, as he's not signed any docs, so everyone is equally trustworthy

11:13:42 <dajobe> I'll think about it

11:13:59 <dajobe> seems to me http://www.shelter.nu/ is more personal

11:14:21 <dajobe> maybe I'll put it under occasional till I see some more

11:14:48 <larsbot> it is personal and occasional

11:15:23 <dajobe> pfft, "rss2"

11:15:58 <dajobe> is there an html way to have <a title="foo" author="bar"> ?

11:17:40 <larsbot> nope. I think the only metadata supported by <a> is hreflang

11:18:00 * dajobe hunts around for a web metadata standard

11:18:15 <larsbot> :-)

11:32:08 * dajobe looks for a blog near http://www.garshol.priv.no/

11:32:25 <larsbot> there ain't one

11:32:34 * larsbot has thought about creating one

11:32:46 <larsbot> and even has some ideas for content, but have so far resisted temptation

11:32:56 <dajobe> do it when you have an idea, not before

11:33:09 <dajobe> break the mold of regular bloggers.

11:33:09 <larsbot> very much agreed

11:50:49 <sandro> lol

12:24:47 <GregElin> I'm there now.

12:25:23 <GregElin> Hey Danbri_

12:25:25 <danbri_> context for RDFIG folk:

12:25:26 <danbri_> [[

12:25:27 * JibberJim wants to schedule another image chat (to get forced to finish off the things I agreed to do after the last ones)

12:25:27 <danbri_> <GregElin> That sounds great! I think we should do it early/mid November?

12:25:27 <danbri_> --> eikeon (~eikeon@jungle.ne.client2.attbi.com) has joined #foaf

12:25:27 <danbri_> <JibberJim> I'd guess mid now, but yep.

12:25:28 <danbri_> <GregElin> Cool. Mid Nov. Let's float that and see if it works for people.

12:25:30 * danbri_ flies to japan Nov 12, so 10/11ish prolly best for me.

12:25:32 <danbri_> <danbri_> If we want to do this as another RDF Interest Group scheduled chat, prolly best to migrate this into #rdfig so people not suprised...

12:25:35 <danbri_> <GregElin> Sounds great to me. Want to post it to that group?

12:25:37 <danbri_> <danbri_> maybe scratch out some agenda ideas in #rdfig?

12:25:41 <danbri_> <danbri_> one would be to have someone from Adobe/XMP come along...

12:25:43 <danbri_> <danbri_> eric miller has contacts there that i should follow up

12:25:45 <danbri_> <GregElin> I just joined #rdfsig.

12:25:47 <danbri_> <GregElin> Let's chat there?

12:25:49 <danbri_> ]]

12:25:51 <danbri_> from #foaf

12:26:23 <GregElin> JibberJim, did you have any particular things you wanted to cover?

12:27:59 <GregElin> I have to step out for about 30 minutes. Feel free to figure things out. I'll catch up when I get back...

12:29:13 <JibberJim> not yet just got to do the vocab stuff I agreed to do before (unifying mine, and Masahide's vocabs etc.) - I just need something to give me a deadline

12:34:30 <danbri_> ditto re exif stuff

12:36:01 <JibberJim> I also want to talk to danbri about an xmlns or w3 namespace for it, I don't feel jibbering.com is that useful if I want to encourage others to use it

12:37:56 <danbri_> image stuff seems a good candidate for w3.org, alongside the geo experiment?

12:40:04 <WillWare> I've been starting to tinker with Jena. What fun interesting inferences can I do with FOAF stuff?

12:40:52 <JibberJim> Who masters the french language, is based_near the airport NCE and works for the W3 ?

12:42:56 <darobin> JibberJim: chaals?

12:43:25 <JibberJim> And max at a guess.

12:43:40 <JibberJim> but chaals will definately match that query on foaf data.

12:43:40 <danbri_> and all the other w3 frenchies

12:43:59 <darobin> I thought some were in Grenoble too

12:48:31 <WillWare> Is there a list somewhere of FOAF pages? I know about danbri's page, and if I query it right I can pick up three or four more. Should I just expect they'd all be connected?

12:49:50 <libby> I've got a little list

12:49:56 <danbri_> ideally... but there also some starting points that are densely linked http://rdfweb.org/topic/ScutterPlan and http://rdfweb.org/topic/FOAFBulletinBoard have pointers

12:50:33 <libby> - http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2001/08/codepict/scutterplan.rdf

12:50:37 <libby> it's big though

12:50:48 <libby> also the etag stuff isn't working

12:53:28 <JibberJim> I'd watch out for ecademy, it looks like they have a recursive bug (I need to confirm) whereby a file refers to itself but with a differeny URI (an extra & in it)

12:56:56 * mmealling does not want to go to Tokyo today

12:59:27 <WillWare> Now that I look more carefully, I see that there are actually quite a few in danbri.foaf. I should learn to scrape those.

12:59:42 <WillWare> And the scutterplan.rdf thing is huge.

12:59:54 <danbri_> there's an interesting amount of data out there...

13:00:19 <JibberJim> - http://jibbering.com/2002/10/rdf-wiki.1 has a lot of guaranteed foaf docs.

13:00:22 <libby> get it to follows seealsos and you're away

13:00:37 <WillWare> I should make up one of these things, but I don't think any of my friends would go along.

13:01:29 <WillWare> I've seen one where the type is declared as http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/FOAFWebDoc, but only one.

13:02:50 <WillWare> But yeah, the seeAlsos look pretty consistent.

13:03:58 * WillWare steps away from the computer for a bit

13:10:57 <libby> strictly seealsos can be any, but mostly rdf docs in practice

13:11:08 <sh1m> chaalsBRS whatcha

13:20:09 <DanC_RSW>http://iswc2003.semanticweb.org/Wednesday.htm

13:20:10 <dc_rdfig> A: http://iswc2003.semanticweb.org/Wednesday.htm from DanC_RSW

13:20:18 <DanC_RSW> A:|ISWC Wednesday

13:20:19 <dc_rdfig> Titled item A.

13:20:27 <DanC_RSW> A:Sanibel Island, FL, USA

13:20:27 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A1.

13:20:57 <DanC_RSW> BLURB: C-OWL: Contextualizing Ontologies

13:20:57 <dc_rdfig> B: C-OWL: Contextualizing Ontologies from DanC_RSW

13:21:09 <DanC_RSW> B:by Paolo Bouquet, Fausto Giunchiglia, Frank van Harmelen, Luciano Serafini and Heiner Stuckenschmidt

13:21:09 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B1.

13:21:23 <DanC_RSW> B:"An ontology is built to be shared"

13:21:23 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B2.

13:21:41 <DanC_RSW> B:"A context is built to be *kept local*"

13:21:41 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B3.

13:21:51 <DanC_RSW> B2:"An ontology is built to be *shared*"

13:21:51 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment B2.

13:23:18 <mmealling> Florida is nice this time of year....

13:23:54 <DanC_RSW> A:hmm... [http://iswc2003.semanticweb.org/overview.rdf|RDF/iCAL version] of the [http://iswc2003.semanticweb.org/program.html|program]

13:23:55 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A2.

13:24:59 <DanC_RSW> A:note [http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2003/10/21/2003-10-21.html#1066774421.337194|friggin proceedings aren't available to the web community]

13:24:59 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A3.

13:25:41 <DanC_RSW> B:an ISCW paper

13:25:41 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B4.

13:26:34 <DanC_RSW> B4:p . 164 in the dead-trees proceedings

13:26:34 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment B4.

13:26:47 <DanC_RSW> B4:p . 164 in the dead-trees ISWC 2003 proceedings

13:26:47 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment B4.

13:27:24 <DanC_RSW> A:|ISWC Program, Wednesday

13:27:24 <dc_rdfig> Titled item A.

13:36:02 <DanC_RSW> B:hmm... skimming the paper, it proposes a semantics based on SHIQ. Too constrained for my tastes.

13:36:03 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B5.

13:42:44 * DanC_RSW wonders if anybody can see EricM

13:45:03 * DanC_RSW sees jjc, wonders if he's here in #rdfig

13:46:30 <DanC_RSW> B:lively Q/A

13:46:30 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B6.

13:46:53 <DanC_RSW> BLURB: Web ontology language requirements w.r.t expressiveness of taxononomy and axioms in medecine

13:46:53 <dc_rdfig> C: Web ontology language requirements w.r.t expressiveness of taxononomy and axioms in medecine from DanC_RSW

13:47:08 <DanC_RSW> C:by Christine Golbreich and Olivier Dameron, Bernard Gibaud and Anita Burgun

13:47:08 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C1.

13:47:22 <DanC_RSW> C:presented by Christine Golbreich

13:47:22 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C2.

13:49:09 <DanC_RSW> C:"Web Ontology Languages meet expected requirements?"

13:49:09 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C3.

13:49:46 <DanC_RSW> C:evaluating Protoge, DAML+OIL w.r.t Brain Cortex Anatomy Ontology

13:49:46 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C4.

13:52:08 <GregElin> I'm baaaa...aack.

13:54:25 * DanC_RSW noodles on a wiki topic for this pattern of giving near-real-time reports from conferences, meetings, etc.

13:54:43 <DanC_RSW> WikiChatJournalism

13:54:59 <DanC_RSW> CommunityJournalism

13:55:10 <DanC_RSW> AlomstLikeBeingThere

13:55:17 <dajobe> ChatStream

13:55:34 <DanC_RSW> ChatStream doesn't say anything about reporting, to me.

13:56:08 <JibberJim> ThePatternOfGivingNearRealTimeReportsFromConferencesMeetingsEtc. ?

13:56:31 <dajobe> comparing to LifeStreams and not using journalism

13:57:01 <DanC_RSW> cf http://esw.w3.org/topic/WikiNames_20vs_2e_20Normal_20Titles JibberJim

13:57:26 <DanC_RSW> HereAndThere

13:57:37 <DanC_RSW> ChatRecords

13:57:49 <DanC_RSW> RealtimeJournalism

13:59:19 <DanC_RSW> what prompted me to start this topic is switching from chump-item-per-session, which corresponds to when I switch "seat contexts", to chump-item-per-paper which makes more sense when you consider that the chump goes out via RSS

14:00:25 <DanC_RSW> C:"maximum expressiveness required". "OWL-DL is not enough". "main limitation is lack of rules"

14:00:25 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C5.

14:01:03 <DanC_RSW> any www-rdf-rules regulars here? rules has come up in just about every talk I've seen. Anybody want to send an edited view of the chump to www-rdf-rules?

14:01:53 <DanC_RSW> C:"we'd like a hybrid similar to CARIN-ALN or TRIPLE"

14:01:53 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C6.

14:02:16 <DanC_RSW> C:"... integrating a subset of OWL with rules and where queries reforumulation is decideable"

14:02:17 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C7.

14:02:43 <DanC_RSW> C:"need parameterization for reuse"

14:02:43 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C8.

14:02:45 <eaon> eaon is now known as eaon|away

14:02:47 <DanC_RSW> [applause]

14:03:28 <DanC_RSW> . Q: I think your rules can be done with OWL axioms

14:04:20 <DanC_RSW> . Horrocks (session chair) re-states the question....

14:04:31 <DanC_RSW> . spkr: could you also give me the answer? [laughs]

14:04:59 <DanC_RSW> it's clear to me that people find it easier to think in rules.

14:05:53 <DanC_RSW> . Q(Richter): ... expressiveness... efficiency...

14:06:37 <DanC_RSW> . Q(Carroll): would it help to have property expressions?

14:07:05 * DanC_RSW doesn't think so. even more brain contortions

14:09:04 <DanC_RSW> . Q(?): yes, some of these things are expressible in DLs, but it's easier for people to express them in rules

14:09:31 <DanC_RSW> . A: but I want to re-iterate that some of the knowledge cannot be expressed in DLs

14:14:59 <DanC_RSW> . Q(?): how did you deal with OWL-DL in the presence of the metaclass work-around?

14:15:08 <DanC_RSW> . Q(?): how did you deal with OWL-DL in the presence of the metaclass requirement?

14:15:14 <DanC_RSW> . A: we found work-arounds.

14:15:28 <DanC_RSW> . Q: is that in the paper? A: no. Will it be in a future paper? A: yes.

14:28:59 <DanC_RSW> "... then we need URIs..."

14:29:01 * DanC_RSW perks up

14:29:28 <DanC_RSW> hmm... prolog syntax mixed with xpath on "Example Cont'd" slide

14:30:42 <DanC_RSW> "URI generating function"

14:30:58 <DanC_RSW> hmm... skolem function?

14:32:30 <sandro> any reference to gensym? that's what Skolem names are traditionally called

14:55:50 * DanC_RSW waves

14:56:13 <DanC_RSW> hang on sandro...

14:56:38 <DanC_RSW> BLURB: Interoperability Among XML Data

14:56:38 <dc_rdfig> D: Interoperability Among XML Data from DanC_RSW

14:56:54 <DanC_RSW> D:Laks V.S. Lakshmanan and Fereidoon Sadri

14:56:54 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D1.

14:57:04 <DanC_RSW> D:"... then we need URIs..."

14:57:04 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D2.

14:57:13 <DanC_RSW> D:hmm... prolog syntax mixed with xpath on "Example Cont'd" slide

14:57:13 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D3.

14:57:28 <DanC_RSW> D:"URI generating function"

14:57:28 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D4.

14:57:37 <DanC_RSW> D:hmm... skolem function?

14:57:38 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D5.

14:58:52 <DanC_RSW> D:p 146 in the dead-trees ISWC 2003 proceedings

14:58:52 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D6.

14:59:10 <DanC_RSW> I think that's the best ref I can give you, sandro

14:59:54 <DanC_RSW> logger, pointer?

14:59:54 <DanC_RSW> See http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-10-22#T14-59-54

15:00:10 <DanC_RSW> A:see also [http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2003-10-22|chat notes]

15:00:10 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A4.

15:00:24 <nmg> urn:isbn:3-540-20362-1

15:00:32 <nmg> resolve that ;)

15:00:45 <DanC_RSW> heh.

15:01:00 <DanC_RSW> is that the real ISBN?

15:01:09 <nmg> yup

15:01:19 <DanC_RSW> D:p 146 in the [urn:isbn:3-540-20362-1|dead-trees ISWC 2003 proceedings]

15:01:19 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D7.

15:01:20 <nmg> they might even have a doi - I shall check

15:01:35 <DanC_RSW> ooh! if they have a doi, there's a corresponding HTTP URI in dx.doi.org

15:01:42 <nmg> bit of a shame that the chump doesn't spot urns

15:01:46 <sandro> In HTTP that looks like http://my.linkbaton.com/isbn/3540203621

15:02:19 <DanC_RSW> well, linkbaton is a 3rd (4th?) party; not the publisher of the proceedings

15:02:32 <nmg> not exactly authoritative

15:02:45 <sandro> True, but that's life in the web. Lots of names for things, each attached to a different source of information about it.

15:03:24 <DanC_RSW> no, that's not life in the web. some URIs involve fewer parties than others

15:03:31 <sandro> Linkbatton happily tells you what 15 bookstores think that ISBN names, and that's good enough for me.

15:04:24 <DanC_RSW> life in the web is: happiness is achieved when the party who calls itself the "publisher" makes the info available to the web community

15:04:25 <sandro> Of course the first 3 I checked have never heard of it.

15:05:08 <DanC_RSW> ... and endorses the URI thru which this is achieved in other media

15:05:11 <sandro> IMO, life in the web is a lot better with a little reduncy, a few other owl:sameAs uris, because no one lives forever.

15:05:23 <nmg> unsurprising - the book has just been published, so won't have made it into books in print, or been added to the catalogues of the shops

15:06:24 <DanC_RSW> true, noone lives forever... maybe conference proceedings need a new sort of name, kinda like freenet, where as long as there's a community interested in the preservation of the content, it stays available in sub-second time.

15:06:38 <sandro> I would have thought there'd be information about the book out a few weeks in advance.

15:07:28 <nmg> depends on whether the publishers send info directly to the retailers, and (if they don't) on how frequent the updates to books in print are

15:07:44 <sandro> Freenet would be nice, but if each site talking about it threw in a few owl:sameAs other sites, that might be good enough.

15:08:45 <DanC_RSW> hmm... I much prefer the sort of redundancy around www.w3.org, where we use the same name for a distributed collection of servers, to the traditional list of mirrors.

15:09:28 <DanC_RSW> but I don't have compelling evidence that it's really feasible or even theoretically optimal

15:10:08 <DanC_RSW> Deb's setting up to give the inferenceweb talk...

15:10:19 <DanC_RSW> ... I'd probably be better off changing rooms to see stuff I haven't seen.

15:10:31 <DanC_RSW> I wish EricM and Massimo would maintain a presence here so we could coordinate coverage.

15:11:03 * DanC_RSW exports wish into email...

15:13:09 * DanC_RSW wonders if sandro has any thoughts on...

15:13:11 * DanC_RSW noodles on a wiki topic for this pattern of giving near-real-time reports from conferences, meetings, etc.

15:13:16 <DanC_RSW> from an hour or so ago

15:13:20 <sandro> I think www.w3.org-style redunancy is a great first line of defense. And if you have enough confidence w3.org will be around, that's good enough.

15:13:39 <sandro> Thoughts like -- what to call the page?

15:13:43 <DanC_RSW> yes, naming

15:14:15 * DanC_RSW hears bijan pronounce his name... bee-jan parSEEuh ... makes mental note

15:14:19 <sandro> RealTimeReporting ?

15:14:20 <nmg> danc: a wiki topic for this would be good

15:14:42 <sandro> InstantReporting

15:14:49 <sandro> YouAreThere :-)

15:14:55 <DanC_RSW> . Motivation: trust and reuse

15:15:01 <DanC_RSW> AlmostLikeBeingThere

15:15:45 <sbp> is that bee-dyan or bee-zyan?

15:15:50 <DanC_RSW> but that doesn't follow the traditional pattern naming idiom where you name the solution

15:15:58 <DanC_RSW> bee-zyan

15:16:01 * sbp assumed the latter

15:16:02 <sbp> cool

15:16:09 <sandro> ("YouAreThere" was a reference to early popular radio reporting)

15:16:26 * DanC_RSW missed the allusion

15:16:42 <DanC_RSW> . [whoa... hundreds of words on this slide]

15:18:01 <DanC_RSW> I'm thinking of a more specific pattern than just reporting... it involves presentation of a paper, usually

15:18:07 <sandro> What's the problem that's being solved? LiveReporting seems like a solution to the problem that not everyone can be everywhere, but folks want to know what's happening right now. THis is a more -- in being two-way -- LiveRepresentative is clumsy.

15:18:49 <sandro> ScribingToAWiderAudience ?

15:18:53 <DanC_RSW> ah!

15:18:56 <sandro> WideScribing

15:19:13 <nmg> ooh, that's bad

15:19:19 <sandro> PublicScribing

15:19:24 <DanC_RSW> the aspect of connecting a physical forum, an IRC channel, and a weblog is central.

15:19:32 <DanC_RSW> ... and a paper.

15:19:55 <sandro> Must it be a paper? It seems the same if it's a discussion meeting without a paper.

15:20:26 <sandro> Some would call it "leaking". :-)

15:20:31 <DanC_RSW> no, a paper isn't a must, but the thing that motivated me to make this topic is guidelines for chumpingn paper presentations

15:20:58 <DanC_RSW> chumping agenda items in a ScheduledTopicChat is similar but different

15:21:32 <sandro> LiveScribingOfPresentations ?

15:22:08 <DanC_RSW> scribe is an appointed role... LiveReportingOfPresentations?

15:22:32 <DanC_RSW> ConnectingAudiences?

15:22:55 * DanC_RSW likes that one...

15:23:18 <nmg> that works for me too

15:23:19 <sandro> AudenceBridging

15:24:14 <sandro> I'd say LiveReporting is one technique for ConnectingAudiences. Are there others worth talking about? (webcams?)

15:24:36 <DanC_RSW> I don't mean to separate the live aspect from the weblog aspect

15:25:25 <danbri_> foo camp was paper-free, just self-organising geeks...

15:26:51 <DanC_RSW> foo camp was a very physically local event... folks reported out, but I haven't seen anybody even attempt to simulate "being there"

15:27:40 <danbri_> yup. i have a couple movies to upload which capture a little of the feel...

15:28:07 <sandro> Wow. I thought "You Are There" was a radio thing, but I guess it was early TV. And I thought it was real reporting, but it was historical re-enactment. http://www.spub.com/BookInfo/Bookhtml/BookDescriptions/yat.html

15:29:01 <sandro> So go with ConnectingAudiences for now, and if someone wants to talk about LiveReporting as its own phenomenon, that's fine.

15:30:18 <DanC_RSW> . "systems need to be able to explain their answers if they are to be trusted and reused"

15:30:19 <DanC_RSW> Amen!

15:31:04 * DanC_RSW offers http://esw.w3.org/topic/ConnectingAudiences

15:32:14 <DanC_RSW> BLURB: Infrastructure for Web Explanations

15:32:14 <dc_rdfig> E: Infrastructure for Web Explanations from DanC_RSW

15:32:24 <DanC_RSW> E:Deborah L. McGuinness and Paulo Pinheiro da Silva

15:32:24 <dc_rdfig> Added comment E1.

15:32:52 <DanC_RSW> A:these notes are offered in an attempt at [http://esw.w3.org/topic/ConnectingAudiences|ConnectingAudiences]

15:32:52 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A5.

15:33:12 <DanC_RSW> E:"systems need to be able to explain their answers if they are to be trusted and reused"

15:33:12 <dc_rdfig> Added comment E2.

15:33:17 <D[a]vey> D[a]vey is now known as Davey

15:33:39 <DanC_RSW> E:this work is more focussed on explanation to users than mechanical proof-checking, so it synergizes and complements my interests.

15:33:39 <dc_rdfig> Added comment E3.

15:34:04 <DanC_RSW> E3:this work is more focussed on explanation to users than mechanical proof-checking, so it synergizes with and complements my interests.

15:34:04 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment E3.

15:34:57 <DanC_RSW> E:see also [http://esw.w3.org/topic/ProofChecking|ProofChecking]

15:34:57 <dc_rdfig> Added comment E4.

15:35:32 <DanC_RSW> RFE: auto-notification of presenters.

15:35:33 <dc_rdfig> Label RFE not found.

15:35:45 <DanC_RSW> i.e. debm should get notice of these comments on her presentation

15:36:50 <DanC_RSW> E:I saw a related poster... made some [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2003Oct/0032.html|notes on Static-provenance poster]

15:36:50 <dc_rdfig> Added comment E5.

15:39:09 <DanC_RSW> . static-provenance guy asks a question

15:39:14 <DanC_RSW> good; they're connected

15:40:29 <DanC_RSW> E2:"systems need to be able to explain their answers if they are to be trusted and reused". this is pretty close to the [http://esw.w3.org/topic/SemanticWebBus|SemanticWebBus] hypothesis

15:40:29 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment E2.

15:54:07 <kendallclark> "If you have two classes, GoodBacteria and BadBacteria, both of which are subclasses of Bacteria..."

15:58:32 <danbri_> like http://www.funsilly.com/cootie.shtml ...

16:03:23 <kendallclark> heh

16:07:28 <md-afk> md-afk is now known as mdupont

16:17:55 <kendallclark> two things i'm very tired of at ISWC: 'better search' and 'semantic portals'

16:18:01 <kendallclark> kill me now

16:19:08 <nmg> portals are so very 1999...

16:19:43 <kendallclark> semantic portals are so q3 2000!

16:20:28 <nmg> heh

16:21:30 <nmg> our SWC entry started life as the AKTivePortal. the name-change was partly for that reason.

16:21:52 <kendallclark> ah, congrats on your win, then!

16:22:32 <nmg> ta

16:22:55 <kendallclark> i was sort rooting for the foaf project (seco?), but i wasn't a judge :>

16:23:14 <swh> iswc

16:23:20 <swh> er, typo, sorry

16:23:32 <aharth> kendallclark: thanks :)

16:23:35 <nmg> I still haven't had a chance to look at the other entries - spent most of yesterday evening giving demos

16:23:55 <kendallclark> aharth: you did seco?

16:24:07 <aharth> yup

16:24:15 <kendallclark> i heard a bit of rumor that seco's sorta plain UI hurt it w/ some judges. FYI.

16:24:18 <swh> is there an iswc discussion channel?

16:24:29 <swh> im in the RVL talk, kinda interesting

16:24:35 * kendallclark too

16:24:43 <kendallclark> (in rvl talk, i mean)

16:24:44 * swh waves

16:24:53 <kendallclark> i don't know of an #iswc; there should be one, of course

16:25:03 <aharth> oh, good to hear... i am hoping that i can get the review/feedback from the judges

16:25:21 <kendallclark> ahar: well, you didn't hear that from me, but i heard it directly from a judge :>

16:26:12 <aharth> ok, i won't tell anybody :)

16:26:43 <kendallclark> not that anyone cares, just don't want to speak out of school publicly

16:27:38 <aharth> i spoke to ubbo visser (he co-organized the challenge), and he said that there might be a chance for the participants to get some sort of "official" comments/feedback

16:27:50 <kendallclark> good

16:27:54 <swh> that would be interesting

16:27:55 <nmg> not a bad idea

16:29:44 <libby> who were the judges? is there a list?

16:30:02 <kendallclark> challenge.semanticweb.org has a list of judges, iirc

16:30:21 <kendallclark> all profs, iirc

16:30:50 <aharth> click on goals (no uri, frames)

16:31:33 <kendallclark> well, not all profs, but close

16:31:45 <swh> hmm... RVL is neither SQL like nor RDF like :(

16:32:01 <nmg> wow. the building finder entry is pretty...scary

16:32:52 <swh> wassit called?

16:32:55 <aharth> nmg: works only for california right now

16:33:38 <nmg> just as well - the thought of being able to click on an aerial photo of my home town and see my name appear is, quite frankly, terrifying ;)

16:33:57 <nmg> swh: BuildingFinder

16:34:07 <libby> ta

16:34:09 <swh> nmg: thatks, found it, missed it somehow

16:34:32 <swh> its pretty neat

16:34:45 <nmg> nmg is now known as nmg_lunching

16:35:34 <swh> the nasa one isnt working properly for me :(

16:36:27 <kendallclark> Skolem funcions!

16:36:28 <swh> ah, is now - maybe network prob

16:36:34 <kendallclark> from hillary putnam to the semantic web

16:36:51 <swh> fun

16:38:13 <danbri_> where was the putnam ref from?

16:38:26 <kendallclark> my head? :>

16:38:29 <danbri_> :)

16:38:40 <kendallclark> last time i remember reading about skolem functions was some putnam i was reading a few months ago

16:38:57 <danbri_> theory of reference stuff cropping up a lot lately, too

16:39:04 <kendallclark> yes

16:39:36 <swh> the DL people were going on about skolem funcs at WWW

16:39:53 <kendallclark> oh, danbri, you might like this... i've been pecking at a phil of cs paper about using david lewis's game theoretic account of convention to make some suggestions about the sw public meaning quagmire

16:41:40 * danbri_ intrigued, has trouble imagining it but sounds interesting!

16:42:04 <kendallclark> have you read lewis's convention?

16:42:22 <swh> im off, cya

16:44:06 <danbri_> i don't recal so, which is probably why i'm having trouble ;)

16:44:27 <kendallclark> so he argues that convention is a solution to a set of 2-agent coordination games

16:44:29 <kendallclark> (roughly)

16:45:27 * danbri_ scans his bookshelf unoptimistically

16:45:42 <danbri_> (might have something relevant in a collection...)

16:45:56 <kendallclark> anyway, his arg suggests, to me at least, that we need a way to establish conventions, i.e., have terms we use in common, irrespective of meaning, as a separte issue from committing ourselves to another's *meaning*

16:46:14 <mdupont> mdupont is now known as md-hacking

16:46:40 <kendallclark> so, my use of cyc:dog is *just* a way to talk about dogs, as a matter of evolving and evolved convention, rathr than committing me to *anything* of cyc's meaning

16:46:54 <kendallclark> this is very rough and sloppy and a bit wrong, but it's the general thrust

16:46:58 <danbri_> so two parties could use wordnet:Tree while having different, perhaps incompatible, theories of trees.

16:47:27 <kendallclark> someting like that

16:47:31 <kendallclark> but s/theories/meanings/

16:47:48 <chaalsBRS> You mean like two people can talk about trees wile not realising that one is meaning "bigger than a shrub" and the othe means "not a directed graph"

16:48:04 <deltab> not cyclic, itym :-)

16:48:08 * danbri_ still feels some privileging of the term's self-description is useful, but that typically only scratches the surface of its meaning

16:48:24 * danbri_ interested to see how far we can get without using the word 'meaning'...

16:48:26 <chaalsBRS> (until some incosistency alerts them to the fact that their convention seems to have broken down)

16:48:53 <kendallclark> doh, free lunch calls, more later, maybe

16:48:55 * chaalsBRS thinks that priveliging of any description by corresponding agents is useful.

16:48:56 <kendallclark> seeya danbri

16:49:00 <danbri_> 'k, happy eating!

16:49:29 <chaalsBRS> priveliging the term's self-description posits knowing who owns it.

16:50:25 <chaalsBRS> If what gets priveliged is in fact someone else's description of a term, but that works well, then that strikes me as workable.

16:50:43 <chaalsBRS> If there are two conflicting descriptions you can be in trouble.

16:52:05 <chaalsBRS> But if I define a term in a vocab and ignore it for 3 years, then come back and say "Hey, you built an entire semantic web of knowledge and services and can do all this cool stuff, but you misused this term"

16:52:09 <chaalsBRS> ...

16:53:11 <chaalsBRS> The meaning strikes me as being more of an emergent property - sure, if you create a term you will direct where it starts emerging, but usage is almost everything in language.

16:54:01 <Davey> Davey is now known as D[a]vey

16:54:29 <chaalsBRS> (At least in free languages like english - in theory usage in french has legal ramification in general, whereas the common-law system is inclined to regard how something is "generally understood by a reasonable person".)

16:55:52 <chaalsBRS> But outside of questions of legal enforcement (where from time to time certain strictures are laid down - I can call someone a Royal pain in the butt, but in Australia I can't make that a trademark)

16:56:30 <chaalsBRS> language is defined by how it are writ.

16:57:42 <chaalsBRS> (The french and italians only speak a dialect of latin anyway. but then english is just a creole of degenerate dialects of various european langauges, with a goodly dash of middle eastern, indian, and local terms.

16:58:18 <shellac> strewth

16:58:30 <chaalsBRS> en-NZ has a fair few maori terms in it, en-AU has stuff from all over the place, en-US has yiddish and spanish peculiarities, etc...)

17:00:16 <dajobe> aloha

17:00:19 <danbri_> Some SW talk remind me of old-time Esperanto advocates! That we'll leave behind the mess of impure, ambiguous, over-complex natural languages and usher in a new era of global knowledge exchange through the rise of [Esperanto|RDF|ontologies].

17:00:27 <danbri_> I have some pamphlets to scan in...

17:01:55 <deltab> heh - Esperanto is impure too

17:10:31 <arnarl> hi

17:15:52 <chaalsBRS> but reasonable to read if you speak a creole of european languages with a blablabla and a couple of dialects of latin...

17:20:08 <eaon|away> eaon|away is now known as eaon

17:48:19 <dajobe> <ericP> i've gotten started (barely) documenting the algorithm i'm using --> http://www.w3.org/2003/01/21-RDF-RDB-access/#ExampleOrdertrackingOuterJoin

17:48:54 <mortenf> which is the way i've been thinking of it as well

17:49:11 <dajobe>http://www.w3.org/2003/01/21-RDF-RDB-access/#ExampleOrdertrackingOuterJoin

17:49:11 <dc_rdfig> F: http://www.w3.org/2003/01/21-RDF-RDB-access/#ExampleOrdertrackingOuterJoin from dajobe

17:49:20 <dajobe> F:|EricP's RDF query alg

17:49:20 <dc_rdfig> Titled item F.

17:49:40 <mortenf> contrast with shallac's esquish: http://rdfweb.org/people/damian/esquish/esquish.tar.gz

17:49:44 <Schuyler> I knew it!

17:49:44 <mortenf> F:which is the way i've been thinking of it as well

17:49:44 <dc_rdfig> Added comment F1.

17:49:51 <dajobe> um, that's a tarball

17:50:11 <ericP>http://www.w3.org/2003/02/15-RDF-hetro-DB/

17:50:11 <dc_rdfig> G: http://www.w3.org/2003/02/15-RDF-hetro-DB/ from ericP

17:50:11 <mortenf> F:contrast with shallac's [esquish (tgz)|http://rdfweb.org/people/damian/esquish/esquish.tar.gz]

17:50:12 <dc_rdfig> Added comment F2.

17:50:23 <Schuyler> I'd been just wondering last week if inner joins could fix the whole ballooning selfjoin problem with squishlike queries

17:50:25 <ericP> G:|Heterogeneous RDF Databases

17:50:25 <dc_rdfig> Titled item G.

17:50:26 <shellac> I think I put that up for mattb - still not polished

17:50:27 * Schuyler cheers

17:50:33 <libby> F:see also some [http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/foaf/2003-10-22.html#T17-03-56|#foaf chatting on this subject]

17:50:33 <dc_rdfig> Added comment F3.

17:50:59 <shellac> I've also got XQuery over RDF model working (just about)

17:51:05 <ericP> mortenf, now working on the aforementioned heterogeneous DB

17:51:27 <ericP> shellac, may i pester you for details?

17:51:32 <mortenf> interesting as well, i have a use case for something like this

17:52:03 <shellac> it's just treehugger ported to saxon 7

17:52:19 <ericP> yeah, should allow one to store unstructured data without sacrificing efficiently on the structures subset

17:52:28 <shellac> I see it as another functional language

17:52:47 <ericP> shellac, do you provide an interpretation of XPath that walks a graph?

17:52:48 <shellac> but it gets blessed with the name 'query'

17:53:21 <shellac> yes - see http://rdfweb.org/people/damian/treehugger/

17:53:22 <ericP> yeah, like SQL is so much easier to impelment than php

17:53:32 <shellac> I need to do a nice diagram

17:53:39 <ericP> damn greehuggin' hippis

17:54:43 <ericP> checking out the intro -- cool

17:54:54 <ericP> danbri mentioned this to me, i've been slack in reading

17:56:24 <ericP> given:

17:56:36 <ericP> node1 p1 node2.

17:56:47 <ericP> node2 p2 node3;

17:57:03 <ericP> p3 node4.

17:57:51 <shellac> I think it's #2 hit on google - which is odd

17:57:51 <shellac> has that term fallen out of use?

17:57:51 <shellac> anyway, I need to learn some xquery to see whether it works

17:58:13 <ericP> can i express the divergence at node2?

17:58:35 <shellac> nope

17:59:12 <ericP> i think that's the rough spot in all grpah query langs

17:59:40 <shellac> the issue was either make an rdf path language, or subvert xpath and get xslt and xquery free

17:59:47 <ericP> real easy to describe a linear path, less intutive/readable when describing a graph.

17:59:48 <shellac> so I went for the latter

18:00:15 <ericP> what if you add variales?

18:00:18 <mortenf> hmm, that node2 problem looks like an owl:IFP problem

18:01:00 <shellac> of course you can do node1/p1/node2 and then ./p2/node3 ./p2/node4

18:01:14 <ericP> i'm just trying to look for x1,x2,x3,x4 where x1 p1 x2. x2 p2 x3; p3 x4.

18:01:31 <ericP> shellac, right

18:01:41 <shellac> paths aren't good at that

18:01:54 <ericP> yet we like to write on lines.

18:02:04 <ericP> (especially in irc)

18:02:05 <shellac> but that isn't a surprise, of course

18:03:01 <ericP> i think you could subvert xpath a lot to designate variables

18:03:51 <shellac> I should look at xpath 2.0, since that's added a great deal

18:04:10 <ericP> $x1/p1/$x2/p2/$x3:$x2/p3/$x4

18:04:34 <ericP> that's got variables and something else

18:04:46 <md-hacking> md-hacking is now known as md-zzz

18:05:07 <ericP> the ':' says look ye not for a property next, but a previously mentioned variable or node.

18:05:26 <ericP> does that seem intuitive and useful?

18:05:29 <shellac> use ../../

18:05:50 <ericP> $x1/p1/$x2/p2/$x3/../../$x2/p3/$x4

18:05:55 <ericP> xxxx

18:06:01 <mortenf> heh

18:06:05 <ericP> $x1/p1/$x2/p2/$x3/../../p3/$x4

18:06:28 <ericP> does *that* seem intuitive and useful?

18:06:34 * mortenf goes elsewhere for a few hours, added fdr to reading list for near future

18:06:46 <shellac> I like the 'back up a bit' aspect

18:08:07 <ericP> compare to n3: ?x1 p1 ?x2.?x2 p2 ?x3;p3 ?x4.

18:08:42 <ericP> which would you rather write/read?

18:08:42 <shellac> I find that worse :-)

18:08:47 <ericP> ok

18:08:52 <shellac> so used to ..

18:09:04 <shellac> (from unix)

18:10:23 <ericP> how about syntactically differentiating nodes and arcs: $x1/p1 $x2/p2 $x3/../../p3 $x4 ?

18:10:42 <ericP> looks ugly, but at least you won't have striping errors

18:11:01 <shellac> that's much more important, but impossible when just subverting xpath

18:11:21 <shellac> but sbp and ian davies have rdf path languages

18:11:42 <ericP> unless you take node1 p1 node2 not as three levels of path but instead two.

18:11:47 <shellac> (I link to sean's 'pondering rdf path')

18:11:53 <danbri> ericp, reckon a hypothetical RDF Query WG should do a path language?

18:12:12 <ericP> seems like that would be there job, doesn't it?

18:12:13 <danbri> (or anyone else for that matter; eric and i been talking about Query charter possibilities lately)

18:12:18 <danbri> add 6 months.

18:12:25 <WillWare> danbri: I got some of that FOAF-spidering stuff with Jena to work

18:12:25 <ericP> jerk

18:12:53 <ericP> yeah, consensus on somehting liek that will be expensive

18:12:55 <danbri> would it allow a syntax for querying reifications? (per Jena-dev current discussion, and also Geoff Chappell's QL, and ?algae?).

18:13:02 <danbri> Will -- cool :)

18:13:11 <WillWare>http://willware.net:8080/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/Jena-2.0/src/wware/Foo.java

18:13:11 <dc_rdfig> H: http://willware.net:8080/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/Jena-2.0/src/wware/Foo.java from WillWare

18:13:13 <ericP> but with so many paths out there, it seems like folks are just diverging by the day

18:13:31 <WillWare> H:| FOAF spider code for Jena

18:13:31 <dc_rdfig> Titled item H.

18:13:39 <ericP> oof, so much to think about

18:13:53 <danbri> thinking -- add 2 months

18:14:14 <shellac> I don't consider mine to be an rdf path language, but a neat hack to try out other things

18:14:25 <shellac> ideally s/my path/better path/

18:14:46 <danbri> shellac, one thing that'd make it easier for me to understand treehugger, is seeing the actual XML docs that it is pretending exist

18:14:52 <danbri> they'd be a bit weird, right?

18:15:04 <ericP> danbri, i guess the proper charter can exclude thinking

18:15:13 <danbri> that's the idea.

18:15:13 <shellac> be infinite if there are loops :-)

18:15:35 <danbri> infinite trees :)

18:15:43 <shellac> as I mentioned, I need to do a little diagram showing how the 'tree' is created dynamically

18:15:44 <danbri> what are those trees where branches rejoin trunk? Banyan?

18:15:53 <shellac> graphs

18:15:58 * danbri remembers something from Jet Set Willy

18:15:59 <ericP> this is too hard, i'm going back to my SQL mapping.

18:16:01 <danbri> bio:Trees

18:16:56 * danbri grins at Will's comment,

18:16:56 <danbri> * Work through the examples in the Jena tutorial. Hot damn, this

18:16:56 <danbri> * stuff actually works as they say it will.

18:17:00 * shellac goes to see maxf in next room

18:21:02 <nmg_lunching> nmg_lunching is now known as nmg

18:23:37 <Ian_> danbri?

18:23:40 * Ian_ asks here..

18:24:34 <danbri> hello

18:24:39 <Ian_> In order for me to say in OWL "Individual "i" belongs to two classes C1 and C2" do I have to declare a class CU that is C1 U C2, or can I assert the double inheritance directly at the individual level?

18:24:50 * Ian_ guesses "union"

18:24:53 <Ian_> Ian_ is now known as Ian

18:24:58 <Ian> Ian is now known as IanJacobs

18:25:39 <danbri> you can write <rdf:Description rdf:about="i"><rdf:type rdf:resource="C1"/><rdf:type rdf:resource="C2"/></rdf:Description>

18:25:55 <IanJacobs> I'd rather use union for fun!

18:26:09 <danbri> you could do the union thing if that captured something meaningful

18:26:35 <IanJacobs> I'm not sure it does.

18:26:55 <IanJacobs> I'm going to run with union just so I can wrap up today....

18:26:58 * danbri tries to think of a use case... C1: SinglePerson, C2: FemalePerson, C3: MarriedPerson, C4: MalePerson ...

18:26:59 <IanJacobs> We'll refine later.

18:27:02 <danbri> okay

18:27:03 <IanJacobs> thanks

18:27:27 <danbri> np

18:30:25 <arnarl> arnarl is now known as arnarl|away

18:41:13 <D[a]vey> D[a]vey is now known as Davey

18:59:43 <IanJacobs> I am using the online OWL validator now.

18:59:54 <IanJacobs> I don't really understand the output.

19:00:04 <IanJacobs> I seem to be far from OWL DL.

19:00:33 <IanJacobs> Looks like my use of union won't allow me to be OWL Lite

19:00:35 <IanJacobs> in any case.

19:00:42 <IanJacobs> Not sure how to get to OWL DL.

19:00:48 <IanJacobs> Seems like I'm a loser if I need OWL Full..

19:01:12 <danbri> OWL DL is a somewhat uptight variant (but well suited to certain kinds of completist reasoner...)

19:01:51 <IanJacobs> Any advice?

19:02:00 <IanJacobs>http://phoebus.cs.man.ac.uk:9999/OWL/Validator?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2003%2F10%2F16-webarch-owl.txt&level=DL&constructs=yes&abstract=yes

19:02:01 <dc_rdfig> I: http://phoebus.cs.man.ac.uk:9999/OWL/Validator?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2003%2F10%2F16-webarch-owl.txt&level=DL&constructs=yes&abstract=yes from IanJacobs

19:03:09 <danbri> advice, hmm. Don't go beyond DL gratuitiously, but don't beat yourself up if you do... unless you're targetting DL tools.

19:03:27 <danbri> and send the WG feedback if you get the time...

19:03:36 <IanJacobs> Ok.

19:03:38 <IanJacobs> Thanks@

19:03:47 <danbri> OWL is two languages cleverly disguised as one

19:04:04 <Morbus> danbri_: a hoot and a holler?

19:04:07 * Morbus winces.

19:04:38 <danbri> scruffy everything goes (RDF/RDFS/Full) is one; DL stuff is another. Loosly corresponding to different tribes in the Knowledge Representation tradition...

19:07:17 <IanJacobs> no way

19:07:56 <danbri> 'tis so

19:12:22 <Davey> Davey is now known as D[a]vey

19:14:18 <golbeck> golbeck is now known as golbeckSanibel

20:09:48 <kendall> hi golbeck

20:18:49 * DanC_jam wonders if bijan is giving the SHOP2 talk

20:22:30 <kendall> no, dan wu is

20:39:34 <arnarl|away> arnarl|away is now known as arnarl

20:45:08 <mortenf> F2:contrast with shellac's [esquish (tgz)|http://rdfweb.org/people/damian/esquish/esquish.tar.gz]

20:45:08 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment F2.

21:09:02 <mortenf> I:|arch doc ontology validation results

21:09:02 <dc_rdfig> Titled item I.

22:08:51 <DanC_jam> hmm... I hit the wall this afternoon... I woke up each morning on this trip without an alarm clock, after 5 hours of sleep. But now I'm dragging.

22:09:07 <DanC_jam> evidently my body wakes up without finishing its job of sleeping. odd.

22:10:47 <mdupont> DanC_jam: sounds like you are in stress mode

22:11:14 <mdupont> maybe a day of just doing nothing or lying in the bathtub would get you back in synch :)

22:17:35 <DanC_jam> there's a pool... calling me...