Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2004-03-24

00:16:03 <GabeW> anybody care to update me on the progress of MTOM, XOP, et al? (not that its entirely on topic)..

00:21:55 <GabeW> heh

00:55:23 <tav> tav is now known as tav|offline

01:29:48 <tav|offline> tav|offline is now known as tav

07:50:36 <dmwaters> {global notice} Hi all! In a few minutes a few of our servers will go down for maintenence, about 1800 users are affected by this, and services will be offline for a bit

09:15:22 <danbri>http://www.osnews.com/printer.php?news_id=6460

09:15:23 <dc_rdfig> A: http://www.osnews.com/printer.php?news_id=6460 from danbri

09:15:32 <danbri> A:|SVG and its Path into the Linux Desktop

09:15:32 <dc_rdfig> Titled item A.

09:15:42 <danbri> A:Interesting tale of standards adoption and collaboration...

09:15:42 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A1.

09:22:30 <sky> you can't link to the printer page, it gives an error

09:23:18 <danbri> wtf

09:23:42 <sky> it checks the refer header :/

09:24:16 <danbri> A:See also [http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6460|version with adverts] that the site would prefer you to visit before going to the nice all-in-one-page printable version I originally linked.

09:24:17 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A2.

10:16:10 <ChanServ> [#rdfig] This channel is logged and blogged: http://logicerror.com/rdfIRCWelcome

11:07:52 <ChanServ> [#rdfig] This channel is logged and blogged: http://logicerror.com/rdfIRCWelcome

11:08:56 <danbri>http://www.iajapan.org/seminar/20040124-en.html

11:08:56 <dc_rdfig> B: http://www.iajapan.org/seminar/20040124-en.html from danbri

11:09:07 <danbri> B:|Tokyo Conference on the Internet and Children

11:09:07 <dc_rdfig> Titled item B.

11:09:19 <danbri> B:"Creating a Fun and Safe Internet Environment for Children"

11:09:19 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B1.

11:09:52 <danbri> B:[+http://www.iajapan.org/seminar/sub.gif]

11:09:52 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B2.

11:10:09 <danbri> B2:+[http://www.iajapan.org/seminar/sub.gif]

11:10:09 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment B2.

11:10:43 <danbri> B:Meeting report from January 24, 2004 gathering, includes some presentation materials.

11:10:43 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B3.

11:18:31 <dajobe> if you click A: you get a nasty message

11:18:43 <dajobe> "Please do not link directly to this printing-only page, but to the story.php file which is meant for viewing."

11:19:09 <dajobe> first time I've seen that

11:31:24 <zool> it's like painting "we don't get it" on one's organisational forehead

11:35:35 <sh1m> dajobe: I got sent a nasty email from a site the other day for deep linking

11:35:37 <sh1m> that wasnt cool

11:36:14 <dajobe> tough, the web allows linking anyway

11:36:22 <dajobe> there is no depth

11:37:38 <jeen> that's very profound dajobe.

11:38:05 <dajobe> only accidental, jeen

11:38:09 <sh1m> I know, bitching over deep linking is very silly. Otherwise the web just becomes a glorified search engine

11:38:31 <sh1m> dajobe: you cant hide from us now, we spotted your secret philosopher ;)

11:38:40 * dajobe hides

11:39:29 <sh1m> er.. there was meant to be an 'it' in that one. My brain is being tratorous again.

11:41:55 <zool> http://www.ec-gis.org:8080/wecgis/ecgis.dyn_event.show?nome='463'

11:41:55 <dc_rdfig> C: http://www.ec-gis.org:8080/wecgis/ecgis.dyn_event.show?nome='463' from zool

11:42:15 <zool> C:|EU workshop on 'Ontologies and Schema Translation Services' for GIS

11:42:16 <dc_rdfig> Titled item C.

11:42:49 <zool> C:i know this isn't very rdfiggy, but could relate to the DAWG geo use cases

11:42:50 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C1.

11:44:27 <danbri> C:It's plenty RDFIG-gy (SWIGgy) zool, thanks for keeping us posted :)

11:44:27 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C2.

11:55:11 <dajobe> seems a guy at Ximian has been tinkering with redland C# bindings

11:55:31 <dajobe> see the top of http://www.go-mono.com/monologue/ at the momennt

12:15:34 <MrEIso> MrEIso is now known as Remosi

12:31:40 <tav> tav is now known as tav|offline

12:47:23 <tav|offline> tav|offline is now known as tav

12:50:19 <libby> BLURB:RDF Calendar meeting, today 24 March 2004 1530UTC, here on #rdfig

12:50:19 <dc_rdfig> D: RDF Calendar meeting, today 24 March 2004 1530UTC, here on #rdfig from libby

12:51:32 <libby> D:[http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=24&month=3&year=2004&hour=9&min=30&sec=0&p1=64|1530utc in other timezones]

12:51:32 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D1.

12:52:16 <libby> D:I've sent some agenda ideas to the list but they haven't turned up yet, so can't link to them...

12:52:17 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D2.

12:53:15 <danbri>http://interaction.ecs.soton.ac.uk/idsw04/

12:53:15 <dc_rdfig> E: http://interaction.ecs.soton.ac.uk/idsw04/ from danbri

12:53:35 <danbri> E:|Beyond the Click: Interaction Design and the Semantic Web (Workshop)

12:53:35 <dc_rdfig> Titled item E.

12:53:41 <danbri> E:At www2004

12:53:41 <dc_rdfig> Added comment E1.

14:06:27 <chaalsMEL> libby?

14:10:15 <chaalsMEL> Sorry folks, I am not going to make a calendar chat in 90 minutes

14:18:05 <libby> never mind chaals. thansk for letting us know

14:20:49 <DanC> D:regrets: chaalsMEL

14:20:50 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D3.

14:23:56 <DanC> D:see also [http://esw.w3.org/topic/RdfCalendar|RdfCalendar wiki topic], [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/|www-rdf-calendar] list archive, [http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/|RDF calendar workspace]

14:23:56 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D4.

14:24:35 <libby> hi DanC

14:24:45 <libby> is there something up with the w3c lists, do you know?

14:25:07 <DanC> I haven't seen any relevant problems, no

14:25:24 <DanC> D:see also [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2004Mar/0013.html|meeting proposal]

14:25:24 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D5.

14:25:43 <libby> I sent a mail to www-rdf-calendar a couple of housrs aggo and it's not in the archive

14:25:58 <libby> just a summary of some stuff that's been happening

14:26:25 <DanC> previous meeting seems to be 4Feb...

14:26:51 <DanC> past the subject/date/to headers of your message? (to verify)

14:26:54 <DanC> paste..

14:27:40 <DanC> D:see [http://rdfig.xmlhack.com/2004/02/04/2004-02-04.html#1075931032.336748|notes on previous meeting, 4Feb]

14:27:40 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D6.

14:29:04 <libby> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:20:18 +0000 (GMT)

14:29:04 <libby> From: Libby Miller <ecemm@bristol.ac.uk>

14:29:04 <libby> To: www-rdf-calendar@w3.org

14:29:04 <libby> Subject: reminder: RDF calendar ScheduledTopicChat today, 1530 UTC

14:29:09 <DanC> possible old-business topics: progress on new cvs committers, ical2rdf.pl work-alikes (fromIcal.py and the semaview C# stuff) ...

14:29:18 <libby> all I can think is that the ecemm bit didn;t work.

14:29:23 <danbri> D:Regrets, I have an unexpected meeting.

14:29:23 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D7.

14:29:42 <libby> D:[http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2004/03/rdfcalendar/rdfcalendar.txt| some possible topics from mailing list/irc]

14:29:42 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D8.

14:29:56 <DanC> yeah, ecemm... is that known to our archive approval system? if not, you'll have to say "yes, archive this message forever for the world to see"

14:30:35 <libby> I'm sure I'd have sent mail like that before. weird

14:31:05 <DanC> do you see a reply from our AA system to ecemm?

14:31:58 <libby> no, nothing...

14:32:26 <DanC> wierd.

14:32:35 <libby> yeah

14:33:40 <libby> maybe there's a problem with mail this end

14:34:43 * DanC reviews http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2004/03/rdfcalendar/rdfcalendar.txt ... wow... long list

14:34:56 <libby> oh, it turned up on www-archive...

14:35:13 <libby> D8:[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2004Mar/0211.html|some possible topics from mailing list/irc]

14:35:13 <dc_rdfig> Replaced comment D8.

14:35:50 <libby> bah, I didn;t mention that the meeting was on irc...sigh...

14:36:40 <DanC> well, it's not _that_ hard for an enterprising newbie to figure out.

14:41:38 <libby> true, I just always miss something out, like, the time or the place or something crucial :)

14:59:03 <libby> hey masaka!

14:59:29 <masaka> hello libby

14:59:59 <libby> how are you?

15:00:08 <libby> .time JST

15:00:38 <libby> hm, no bot

15:02:34 <masaka> it's quite busy season - FY end for me :-(

15:02:57 <libby> poor you

15:03:32 <masaka> but playing with heml ;-)

15:03:52 <libby> that stuff looks great

15:04:50 <masaka> yeah, turning existing resouces into RDF would be useful

15:05:11 <dajobe> logger, hello

15:05:39 <DanC> oops; I gotta get an RDF DAWG agenda out... might be late for RDF Calendar

15:06:34 <rawles> is that like deputy dawg?

15:06:44 <libby> ok, DanC. I think Masaka will have to go after about an hour

15:07:24 <masaka> well, actually an hour and half maybe..

15:07:56 <libby> oh cool, thanks masaka

15:18:31 <libby> hello paulc!

15:18:50 <paulc> hi libby

15:30:10 <libby> ok, I make it 1530

15:30:17 <libby> let's start the calendar meet

15:30:26 <libby> ---------- RDF calendar meet starts --------------

15:30:54 <libby> hello everybody who is here for the scheduledTopicChaton RDF Calendar - see D: on rdfig.xmlhack.com for some details

15:31:07 <libby> if yu could do this:

15:31:27 <libby> D:attending [Libby Miller|http://ilrt.org/people/libby]

15:31:28 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D9.

15:31:35 * LotR keeps half an eye on #rdfig

15:31:45 <libby> if you're attenfing that would be good (not exactly that, obviously... ;)

15:32:05 <paulc> D:attending [Paul Cowles|http://www.semaview.com]

15:32:05 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D10.

15:32:06 <libby> if you're not attending, sorry for the intrusion, we'll be 60-90 minutes or less

15:32:31 <libby> DanC has said he'll be a little late

15:32:33 <masaka> D:attending [Masahide Kanzaki|http://kanzaki.com/]

15:32:33 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D11.

15:33:01 * libby wonders if it's just the four of us

15:33:31 * sh1m is watching irc

15:33:32 <eikeon> D:lurking [eikeon|http://eikeon.com]

15:33:32 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D12.

15:33:45 <LrdDNattor> D:attending [Robin Millette|http://rym.waglo.com/]

15:33:46 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D13.

15:34:00 <libby> hi there

15:34:05 <LotR> libby: calendaring is just not popular. everyone hates meetings :)

15:34:13 <eikeon> hi libby

15:34:14 <paulc> hi all

15:34:15 <bryceb> D:lurking [bryceb|http://tenyearsof.us]

15:34:15 <sh1m> well I am on a WCAG call ;)

15:34:16 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D14.

15:35:03 <libby> hi guys. welll, hm, we don;t really have an agenda, but there's a bunch of stuff we could talk about

15:35:26 <libby> does anyone have an particular prefernces?

15:36:08 <libby> I'm interested in what masahide has been doing with HEML; I'd also like to hear more about semaview and sherpa

15:36:20 <paulc> sounds like a good place to start

15:36:41 <LrdDNattor> I'm here more or less to lurk...

15:36:52 * LotR wonders if eventsherpa runs under mono

15:36:59 <libby> timbl's message was interesting: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2004Mar/0016.html but he's not here, so maybe that'llhave to stay on email

15:37:09 <libby> lotr, danbri got it working on debian with mono

15:37:13 <libby> briefly

15:37:22 <LotR> heh

15:37:38 <paulc> yes was encouraged by danbri's trial

15:37:44 <libby> ok, let's talk about eventsherpa. paulc, would you be interested in telling us about it?

15:38:25 <LotR> there's a mono on irc.gnome.org if anyone wants to work on the 'briefly'

15:38:43 <libby> hey ol!

15:39:10 <paulc> we are preparing our next release due shortly

15:39:15 <libby> here's danbri's message lotr: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2004Mar/0012.html

15:39:16 <LotR> s/mono/#mono/

15:39:24 <paulc> have released parser recently - hoping others find useful

15:39:40 <Ol> hi, sorry I'm late

15:39:41 <paulc> have to spend more time examining mono after positive results from danbri

15:40:05 <libby> yeah taht's very cool paulc

15:40:50 <paulc> unfortunately there are few new features of interest to this group - we will continue to provide rdf versions of calendars but not much more

15:41:00 * libby seems to have lost web connectivity :(

15:41:00 <Ol> D: attending [Olivier Gutknecht|http://www.apple.com]

15:41:00 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D15.

15:41:15 <dajobe> all of UB's networking is screwed today

15:41:40 <libby> so, at the moment, paulc, does it provide export to rdfical?

15:42:29 <paulc> yes... but i'm dying to get more semantic data integrated

15:42:29 <paulc> just haven't had time/resources to date

15:42:32 <libby> how are you hoping to integrate it ?

15:42:52 <libby>http://www.semaview.com/

15:42:52 <dc_rdfig> F: http://www.semaview.com/ from libby

15:42:53 <paulc> i would like to examine integration of FOAF date

15:43:07 <paulc> to begin with

15:43:12 <libby> F:|Semaview, home of eventSherpa

15:43:12 <dc_rdfig> Titled item F.

15:43:33 <paulc> i would be interested in hearing interests/needs of others

15:43:40 <libby> interesting.

15:44:07 <paulc> also should note that our open source parser does ics->rdf but not the other way around

15:44:09 <paulc> that needs to be added

15:44:14 <paulc> in order to help with round tripping

15:44:35 <libby> interesting. doo you use/have an rdf parser?

15:44:58 <libby> would it be interesting for you to be able to use an xml profile of rdf icalendar?

15:45:15 <paulc> we do, but pulling it out for release was more difficult

15:45:33 <libby> right

15:46:06 <paulc> i would like to see the open source package extended so that we could use it in a suite of round trip testing frameworks

15:46:45 <libby> what do you reckon about a syntactic profile on rdf icalendar? masaka's done very cool stuff with xslt, but i worrry it will eventually break

15:47:14 <paulc> we've been looking at building integration tools for users that would leverage masaka's xslt work

15:49:02 <paulc> masaka your xslt work has been very interesting/useful to us - thank you

15:49:29 <libby> in terms of integrating foaf stuff, di=oes that mean it may later be iportant to you to have a clear idea of how foaf shoudl be mixed with rdf icalendar, e.g. for describing attendees etc?

15:49:31 <masaka> that's my pleasure

15:50:00 <LotR> there's xslt for rdf icalendar?

15:50:12 <paulc> yes exactly - i would like to discuss/hear from others what semantic data types would be most valuable to add next and how

15:50:25 <paulc> we have our own ideas but would love more input on that item

15:50:35 <libby> masaka has done some xslt yes

15:50:39 * libby looks for a link

15:51:06 <libby>http://kanzaki.com/works/2004/cal/concerts-tokyo.rdf

15:51:06 <dc_rdfig> G: http://kanzaki.com/works/2004/cal/concerts-tokyo.rdf from libby

15:51:15 <libby> G:|Suntory Hall (Tokyo) Concerts Information

15:51:15 <dc_rdfig> Titled item G.

15:51:25 <libby> G:as rdf iCalendar, displayed using XSLT

15:51:25 <dc_rdfig> Added comment G1.

15:51:38 <libby> G:by Masahide Kanzaki

15:51:38 <dc_rdfig> Added comment G2.

15:52:27 <libby> paulc, can you give us a quick tour of eventsherpa? I don;t have accessto a windows machine at the moment and I feel very ignorant about it

15:53:06 <paulc> sure... basically its an ASP service, rich windows client w/ integrated hosting

15:53:08 * DanC is fighting W3C mail problems, trying to get his WG agenda out. sorry.

15:53:13 <paulc> every calendar published to the users profile/homepage

15:53:20 <paulc> is published as .ics and .rdf

15:53:38 <paulc> so one could walk our 'community' today and retrieves thousands of rdfical calendars

15:54:17 <libby> how do you find events - ones from public calendars of sherpa users?

15:54:18 <paulc> each user also has a vcard published in rdf

15:54:19 <libby> wow :)

15:54:43 <paulc> currently you can search for calendars only - not event level

15:54:48 <paulc> but we are working on that :>

15:54:50 <libby> wow re thousands; interesting re vcard

15:55:08 <libby> how do you categorise the calendars?

15:55:21 <libby> ah, region, category

15:55:48 <paulc> yes so i am interested in providing rdf calendars that not only reference rdfical schema but also FOAF, vCard

15:55:56 <paulc> intermixing the semantic data

15:55:56 * libby understands why foaf might eb interesting to you

15:56:04 <masaka> re semantic data: how about geo info, paulc?

15:56:12 <paulc> yes we are also working on geo front

15:56:35 * DanC waves to Ol; thanks for ssh2 key; I think we're all set. have you tried cvs checkout?

15:56:46 <masaka> link with map service, for example?

15:56:57 <libby> so paulc do you say somewhere in RDF "this calendar bwlongs to this person"?

15:56:59 <paulc> yes, a great example!

15:57:20 <paulc> currently the calendar is not linked to an identity

15:57:36 <paulc> other than through inherent linking through user profile

15:57:47 <paulc> but that for example is one thing i'd like to add

15:58:01 <libby> linking at the application level not the data level?

15:58:06 <asm_> i'm working on a project right now for merging disjoint namespaces ... is this similar to what you're doing paulc?

15:58:23 <libby> that's really useful paulc

15:58:34 <paulc> asm_ we would be interested in that work yes

15:58:45 <Ol> danc: I took a few days off, so I have not tried it yet, I'll try a co today or tomorrow

15:58:47 <asm_> who is we ?

15:58:59 <paulc> semaview as a company - sorry

15:59:04 <asm_> ahh

15:59:19 <DanC> merging it what sense, asm_?

15:59:31 <DanC> great, Ol

15:59:49 <asm_> the example i'm using now is a database of paper citations (author, title, cited by, cites)

15:59:53 <asm_> and a student directory

16:00:11 <asm_> each has a separate namespace, but we'd like to link authors to people's names

16:00:19 * LotR imagines rss feeds of public events

16:00:21 <libby> paulc, do you make any of your rdf data public at all? or is it part of your business model to hang on to it?

16:00:47 <paulc> eventsherpa also provides rss feeds of each users public events

16:00:58 <libby> (I'm dealing with another company whose busines model is exactly that, we're trying to work out whether we can still use the data smoehow)

16:01:16 <paulc> calendars that are public have rdf data public as well, calendars users keep private have rdf protected by password

16:01:22 <libby> rss+ical? or rss+events module?

16:01:26 <libby> neat :)

16:01:40 <paulc> rss 1.0 w/ event module or rss 2.0

16:02:00 <libby> right, but also as rdfical...?

16:02:19 <paulc> yes also each complete calendar as rdfical

16:02:26 <libby> asm_, sounds intreesting, do you ahve a link?

16:02:32 <libby> thanks paulc

16:02:43 <asm_> i dont ... the project was just conceived

16:03:10 <libby> heh, cool. maybe when you do....?

16:03:24 <asm_> paulc: is what i was talking about what you were talking about earlier ?

16:03:36 * libby would like to move on, as we've had 30 mins

16:03:49 <libby> very interesting stuff paulc

16:03:56 <paulc> yes depending on what we decide to add, it may be very relevant

16:04:06 <asm_> ahh! found it, DanC is famous, i knew it ... right here in this O'Reilly RDF book

16:04:13 <paulc> please keep me posted if you are sharing asm_

16:04:18 <DanC> paul, are you still interested in cvs commit access to http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/ ? I need an ssh2 key, if so.

16:04:42 <asm_> ok, i'll put together a page when i can

16:04:43 <paulc> DanC - sorry will provide, not sure how much time I can devote right now but long term would like access

16:04:47 <DanC> D:attending some parts: [http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/|Dan Connolly]

16:04:47 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D16.

16:05:02 <DanC> no rush, paul. good to know you're still interested.

16:05:31 <libby> masaka, would you like to talk a bit about what you've been doing?

16:05:51 <masaka> HEML thing?

16:06:03 <libby> sure

16:06:37 <masaka> it's Historical Event Markup and Linking

16:06:45 <libby>http://www.heml.org/

16:06:45 <dc_rdfig> H: http://www.heml.org/ from libby

16:06:49 <masaka> it's an attempt to extract event data from xhtml document, especially historical events

16:07:04 <masaka> I've experimented on my Japanese Literature History document

16:07:13 <libby> H:|Historical Event Markup and Linking project

16:07:13 <dc_rdfig> Titled item H.

16:07:22 <masaka> generates an RDFical from xhtml, then generate heml form RDFical

16:07:36 <masaka> so, from http://kanzaki.com/jinfo/jliterature.html

16:07:49 <masaka> you get SVG timeline via HEML http://heml.mta.ca/heml-cocoon/timelineRef.html?url=http://www.kanzaki.com/courier/lx/works/2004/cal/history2heml.xsl/jinfo/jliterature.html

16:07:51 <DanC> what does heml syntax look like? it's different from XHTML and different from RDF?

16:07:59 <masaka> (skipped some middle transformation)

16:08:12 <masaka> it's an xml, not an RDF, DanC

16:08:18 <libby> svg? neat!

16:09:08 <masaka> an example HEML (generated) http://www.kanzaki.com/courier/lx/works/2004/cal/history2heml.xsl/jinfo/jliterature.html

16:10:21 <masaka> I'm not sure ical:dtstart /dtend is relevant for histrical events

16:11:04 <libby> wha got you into HEML, masaka?

16:11:25 <paulc> yes why HEML and not rdfical - interested in hearing background vision

16:11:59 * libby admires SVG timeline

16:12:13 <masaka> well i just wanted to try its presentation, e.g. SVG timeline

16:12:24 <libby> were those tools already available?

16:12:50 <masaka> yes, you can try from HEML homepage

16:12:53 <DanC> the issue I see with ical:dtstart and historical events is: you can only express "it happened on this day" or "it happened at this time, down to the second". you can't say "it happened on the afternoon of July 4th" nor "in the spring of 1776". for stuff like that, I use cyc. (though I just got a contact from Adam Pease, the sumo guy, about why SUMO would be better)

16:13:57 <paulc> the SVG timelines are impressive

16:14:19 <libby> H:[http://heml.mta.ca/heml-cocoon/timelineRef.html?url=http://www.kanzaki.com/courier/lx/works/2004/cal/history2heml.xsl/jinfo/jliterature.html|SVG timetime - HEML tools showing japanese literature history document from masaka]

16:14:19 <dc_rdfig> Added comment H1.

16:14:34 <masaka> yes, dtstart thigs are another point to use HEML

16:15:26 <masaka> i mean, we can use its vocabulary with rdf, maybe

16:15:40 <libby> so you have xslt to go from rdfical to heml masaka?

16:16:23 <masaka> yes, http://kanzaki.com/works/2004/cal/rical2heml.xsl

16:16:52 <masaka> (experimental version)

16:16:57 <libby> H:[http://kanzaki.com/works/2004/cal/rical2heml.xsl|translformed using masaka's stylesheet, rdfical to HEML]

16:16:57 <dc_rdfig> Added comment H2.

16:17:01 <libby> thanks :)

16:17:33 <libby> do you think that HEML is quite close to an rdf vocabulary in its structure?

16:17:33 <paulc> very nice masaka

16:17:58 <masaka> thanks, i should study about HEML more

16:18:12 <masaka> it's kind of complex

16:19:12 <libby> thanks for showing us that masaka

16:19:18 * libby wants to use the svg

16:19:31 <masaka> in a sense, i think HEML can be written as rdf

16:19:57 <masaka> but heml browsing tools don't work with rdf version, at this moment

16:20:29 <libby> right. maybe we coudl make contact with them.

16:21:09 <libby> ok, we've had about 50 minutes are there any priorities to talk about for thenext 10 or 40 minutes?

16:21:52 <libby> Ol, DanC, eikeon? any thoughts?

16:21:59 <DanC> I'd like to get some code review of fromIcal.py and the C# stuff

16:22:11 <eikeon> How about the new schema stuff?

16:22:44 * DanC isn't sure what to say about the new schema beyond the mail I sent, but I'm happy to answer questions

16:23:03 <DanC> has anybody besides danbri tried the C# ical parser?

16:23:46 <rawles> I have a dumb question if someone would like to help me out. My weblog uses subjects, so in the RDF file I use <dc:subject>. I have a page for each subject, can I link that in like this: <dc:subject rdf:resource="http://...">___</dc:subject>

16:24:21 <DanC> at the Tech Plenary in France, libby and I talked about having a handful of short articles on nifty things to do with RdfCalendar. perhaps taking one of the wiki topics and elaborating it into an article. Anybody interested?

16:24:59 <DanC> candidates include http://esw.w3.org/topic/EventDiscovery , http://esw.w3.org/topic/CalendarScraping , etc.

16:25:15 <sh1m> DanC: might not be the answer you want but I am interesting in seeing an article on geointergration

16:25:19 <eikeon> Is this the current script that generates the schema: http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/slurpIcalSpec.py

16:25:44 <DanC> yes, slurpIcalSpec.py is part of the current schema generation mechanism

16:26:02 <libby> rawles, I think you can only have <dc:subject>bla</dc:subject> or <dc:subject rdf:resoutce="http://www.w3.org/rdf"/> as far as RDF is concerned. I also thuink that dc:subjects are usually keywords not urls so the former is better

16:26:09 <DanC> geointegration would make a fantastic article, I expect, sh1m.

16:26:26 <libby> yeah sh1m, wanna write it? :)

16:26:26 <DanC> the ideal article would say "how I did XYZ, and you can too", and not just "things I wish for"

16:26:42 <rawles> thankyou libby

16:26:57 <sh1m> thats why it wasn't the answer you wanted becuase I really really don't have time.

16:27:11 * DanC wishes the dc community would be more clear about http://esw.w3.org/topic/ThingsVersusTheirNames

16:27:16 <sh1m> I have a WCAG document going to TR in a week or so

16:27:34 <libby> maybe we shoudl send around a mail about the artciles DanC. I do think it's a great idea

16:27:44 <sh1m> but I think geointegration would make a good article because it is impressive

16:27:51 <sh1m> it might be a good rally point

16:28:13 <DanC> can you point me/us at any particular impressive geointegration foo that you've seen, sh1m?

16:28:17 <LotR> rawles: also, check out the rss for delicious, http://del.icio.us/rss/ they have both dc:subject and some seperate thing that does use urls

16:28:17 <libby> geo very popular these days, yeah

16:28:54 <masaka> can ical:geo have geo:Point ?

16:29:08 <sh1m> DanC: unless my wires are crossed you used the info from your calander to show your flight scheduel in your TP slides

16:29:23 <libby> I think icalendar Geo expects comma separated floats masaka

16:30:03 <masaka> so we use another vocab to put geo:Point in rdfiical?

16:30:08 <libby> ...so it's an interesting question...

16:30:15 <DanC> ok, I hope to make an article out of http://esw.w3.org/topic/TravelTools . bonus points to anybody who beats me to it, though.

16:30:35 <libby> you did something on this masaka right? geo...and....events? or was it images?

16:31:24 <DanC> ooh.. ahh... http://norman.walsh.name/2004/itinerary/02-28-techplenary

16:31:57 <masaka> yes, i use ical:geo to describe geo:Point so far .. libby

16:32:08 <Ol> yes, iCalendar GEO is latitude,longitude

16:32:08 <libby> hm, jibberjim and zool did some cool stuff a while back...

16:32:26 * DanC starts thinking about next meeting, looks a couple weeks ahead...

16:32:30 <libby> thanks Ol

16:32:57 <libby> I find it very tricky then...how do we link an event with a location?

16:33:27 <paulc> gents... am being pulled out, masaka thx for the HEML stuff - very interesting... will play around with it more

16:33:59 <LotR> re geo and calendaring, did everyone see upcoming.org?

16:34:10 <libby> bye paulc, thanks!

16:34:18 <masaka> thank you paulc, bye

16:34:26 <sh1m> bye paulc

16:34:35 <libby> yeah, actually I wrote a short rant about it lotr :)

16:34:37 <DanC> I'm available to meet 2 weeks hence: Wednesday, April 7, 2004, at 14:30:00 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=7&month=4&year=2004&hour=9&min=30&sec=0&p1=64

16:35:03 <libby> is there a timezone change between then and now...I think so...

16:35:06 <DanC> yup

16:35:14 <LotR> libby: I wonder why I even try introducing new urls here :) url for your rant?

16:35:41 * DanC meant 14:30 UTC

16:35:49 <libby> cool

16:35:55 <LotR> when's the TZ change again? last W/E of march or first of april?

16:35:58 * DanC looked forward in his local timezone, Chicago

16:36:18 <libby> lotr, http://planb.nicecupoftea.org/archives/000068.html

16:36:34 <libby> not v ranty really...what semaview are doing is what I want, I think...

16:36:42 <libby> upcoming looked cool, just centralized

16:36:53 * DanC consults http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/tzd/America/Chicago re when the timechange is...

16:36:54 <libby> I think I can make that date/time, danc

16:36:58 <masaka> i should leave now, April 7 14:30 UTC is ok for me.

16:37:15 <libby> thanks masaka! cheers for coming

16:37:45 <masaka> thank you libby, all. good night (in Tokyo) :)

16:37:48 <libby> I think timeand date.com also has that inf somewhere

16:37:52 <libby> night!

16:38:16 <sh1m> goodnight masaka

16:38:20 <DanC> Chicago changes to daylight savings time 1st sunday each april, per http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/tzd/America/Chicago

16:38:32 <libby> London we have DST starts on Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 1:00 AM local standard time

16:38:59 <libby> so they're not the same

16:39:08 * DanC takes a look at http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/tzd/Europe/London

16:39:08 <libby> although it doesn;t matterfor our puposes

16:39:29 * libby was looking at http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=136

16:40:01 <DanC> London changes the last sunday in March, per http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/tzd/Europe/London

16:40:23 <DanC> :rrule [

16:40:23 <DanC> :byday "-1SU";

16:40:23 <DanC> :bymonth "3";

16:40:23 <DanC> :freq "YEARLY";

16:40:23 <DanC> :interval "1" ];

16:40:37 <LotR> hmm, so I only have 23 hours of birthday this year. *pout*

16:40:43 <libby> aww

16:40:44 <DanC> hoot!

16:41:29 <DanC> BLURB: next RDF Calendar meeting

16:41:30 <dc_rdfig> I: next RDF Calendar meeting from DanC

16:41:32 <libby> well that seems like a time people can do anyway

16:41:37 <libby> surprisingly easy

16:42:20 <sh1m> LotR: just need to party 1/24th harder.

16:42:21 <LotR> DanC: yeah, I remembered I could look at evolution's TZ data just after I asked :)

16:42:23 <DanC> I:in two weeks. Wed 7 Apr 14:30 UTC seems to have critical mass. see [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=7&month=4&year=2004&hour=9&min=30&sec=0&p1=64|time near you]

16:42:23 <dc_rdfig> Added comment I1.

16:43:43 <libby> cheers guys

16:43:48 * LotR kicks evolution for being incorrect about TZ data for dates in the past

16:44:12 <DanC> thanks for chairing today, libby

16:44:13 <libby> next time I'll try and get an agenda out 24hours in advance

16:44:48 <DanC> you're offering to chair again? mind if I put that in the record under I:?

16:45:01 <libby> yeah sure, if people are happy with that....

16:45:19 * libby also happy for someone else to do it

16:45:24 <DanC> I:stay tuned for an agenda from libby, about 24hrs in advance

16:45:25 <dc_rdfig> Added comment I2.

16:45:54 <DanC> if you'll prepare the agenda, maybe I'll be available to run the discussion next time

16:46:07 <libby> ok, cool

16:46:45 <libby> what do you reckon to the scope of these discussions? I'd like to get Leigh dodds to talk about his events wiki

16:46:58 <libby> ...but I don;t think it uses rdfical (yet)

16:47:33 <libby> - http://www.ldodds.com/conference/Wiki.jsp

16:47:48 <DanC> that conference thing is cool.

16:48:12 <libby> yeah

16:48:23 <DanC> I like keeping the scope of the schema small, but I don't mind broadening the discussions.

16:48:35 <DanC> but... hmm... we might want to focus on some sort of "finished" signal.

16:48:41 <DanC> naw.

16:48:44 <libby> heh

16:49:09 * libby not realyl a completer-finisher

16:51:08 <sh1m> heh

16:51:42 * sh1m is not really a starter he prefers to think of things for other people to actually do

16:51:56 <libby> heh

16:52:00 <libby> good idea

16:52:30 <sh1m> does it for me

16:52:51 <DanC> I'm a fairly accomplished completer-finisher, but I acutally use rdf-calendar as an oasis. somewhat ironic that the group working on calendars has no schedule, no?

16:53:12 <libby> heheh

16:53:13 <sh1m> lol

16:53:14 <libby> a little

16:53:34 <sh1m> DanC: darling, its a British thing

16:53:54 * sh1m grins

16:53:58 <sh1m> we thrive on that kinda irony

16:55:05 <DanC> also ironic that we rarely use icalendar freebusy stuff to schedule meetings.

16:55:31 <DanC> probably because this is a public forum, and calendars tend to be senstive.

16:55:31 <libby> yeah

16:55:36 <sh1m> anyway I'm off home. I'll be back on in 45mins prolly.

16:55:39 <sh1m> taa

16:55:46 <DanC> you'd need a pretty rock-n-roll access control mechanism to satisfy the needs of this group.

16:56:02 <libby> I'd like to use rdfical to contextualize some things though

16:56:07 <libby> bye sh1m

16:56:35 <libby> I had a plan to use my foaf and rdf calendar to try and work out some simple rdf from the moblog

16:57:25 <libby> so making public when I was going to conferences etc could narrow thw field of search a bit for creating rdf descriptions for the images

16:57:30 <libby> didn;t do it though

16:57:40 <libby> havn;pt ven got my calendar public or in rdf

16:59:07 <Ol> meeting time

16:59:08 <Ol> bye all

16:59:16 <libby> bye ol - thanks for coming!

16:59:20 <DanC> ciao, Ol

16:59:28 <rawles> I have another question. Looking through RSS files, some are expressed directly, and other as CDATA. When should my RSS-producing program use CDATA and when should it not?

16:59:53 <libby> did you check out the RSS 1.0 spec?

16:59:57 <libby> I'm not really sure

16:59:58 <deltab> you mena CDATA sections?

17:00:03 <rawles> yeah

17:00:25 <deltab> (there's also CDATA content and CDATA element values)

17:00:43 <rawles> i suspect something in the content is forcing it to express it as CDATA. This is in <description> inside an RSS item.

17:00:57 <deltab> CDATA sections only exist for convenience, they don't have any meaning in themselves

17:01:04 <rawles> maybe i should read the spec libby sorry guys

17:01:13 <rawles> what do they signal then?

17:01:22 <deltab> nothing

17:01:27 <dajobe> or look at one of the feeds, there are several on the rss 1.0 validator page

17:01:30 <libby> it's ok rawles...dunno whether it helps

17:01:34 <rawles> deltab do you have a weblog

17:01:45 <deltab> they're just alternative syntax that doesn't require as much escaping

17:02:41 <rawles> ok cool, i'll read up on what needs escaping

17:02:44 <rawles> thankyou

17:03:20 <deltab> so that instead of a &lt; b you can write <![CDATA[a < b]]>

17:03:35 <deltab> see http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml-20040204/#sec-cdata-sect

17:03:38 <rawles> i see, so i only need escape <, >, and &?

17:04:24 <deltab> in oridanry PCDATA, yes

17:05:00 <deltab> in a CDATA section only ]]> has special meaning

17:10:48 <libby> heh, I assumed danny ayers link http://dannyayers.com/archives/002383.html meant that sonmeone had marked up the devil's dictionary in RDF...but it's a definiton of the SW: "An attempt to apply the Dewey Decimal system to an orgy."

17:11:54 <libby> oh, it does have an rss 1.0 feed though: http://www.eod.com/devil/rss10.xml

17:12:30 <deltab> rawles: no weblog

17:13:27 * libby grins at the definition of 'instant message' http://www.eod.com/devil/archive/instant_message.html

17:33:30 * sh1mmer returneth

17:46:55 * LotR ponders using http://www.w3.org/2001/03/thread# in rss to show you're replying to someone else's blog

19:08:40 <_Wack> _Wack is now known as Wack

19:54:03 <[GNU]-> hi, any hints to "agents" finding free time in a set of rdfical files?! :)

20:03:25 <DanC> I think terry payne's group did something like that, [GNU]

20:04:03 <[GNU]-> ok :) who is terry payne?

20:04:21 <[GNU]-> no foafbot in here?

20:05:13 <[GNU]->http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~trp/

20:05:14 <dc_rdfig> J: http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~trp/ from [GNU]-

20:05:22 <[GNU]-> this seems to be the right one

20:05:24 <[GNU]-> oh :)

20:05:51 <[GNU]-> dc_rdfig: J:|Terry Payne

20:05:52 <dc_rdfig> Titled item J.

20:06:26 <[GNU]-> dc_rdfig: J:->software, agent

20:06:27 <dc_rdfig> Set keywords for J.

20:07:29 <[GNU]-> dc_rdfig: J: I looked for his work on [Calendar Agents|http://www.daml.ri.cmu.edu/Cal/]

20:07:30 <dc_rdfig> Added comment J1.

20:13:34 <jsled> jsled is now known as jsled_awayca

21:08:36 <[GNU]-> thanks, and good night

21:23:27 <CaptSolo> hi all

22:10:04 <Skyline> Skyline is now known as Skyline_

22:10:45 <Skyline_> Skyline_ is now known as Skyline

23:09:31 * jhendler waves at DanC

23:09:44 <jhendler> just got garageband - wanna point me at your tracks danC?

23:10:01 <DanC> hang on, jim... I'm on the phone, but yeah

23:10:51 <jhendler> no hurry - real fun comes tonight when my wife gets home w/the new MIA and guitar cable...

23:41:11 <DanC> oops... sorry, jim, family time has come

23:41:31 <jhendler> email me pointers when you get a chance