Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2004-11-01

03:31:17 <crschmid1> crschmid1 is now known as crschmidt

04:49:30 <CloCkWeRX[dc]> CloCkWeRX[dc] is now known as CloCkWeRX

08:30:44 <sanctius> Bonjour tout le monde / Good Morning all

08:31:24 <danbri> mornin'

08:31:44 <bijan> morning dan

08:33:28 <md-afk> moin

08:34:11 <md-afk> md-afk is now known as Pherl

08:39:52 <chaalsNCE> .t EST

08:39:54 <phenny> Mon, 01 Nov 2004 03:39:52 EST

08:40:25 <chaalsNCE> Hmm. Anyone know if the US moved off summer time this weekend?

08:40:43 <mattmcc> Yes, last night.

08:40:53 <chaalsNCE> ok, thanks

08:40:56 <mattmcc> Well. This morning.

08:54:05 <kota> yep, this morning.

11:00:26 <CaptSolo_> mornin sanctius

12:46:06 <danbri>http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jena/

12:46:08 <dc_rdfig> A: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jena/ from danbri

12:46:35 <danbri> A:|Intro to Jena, by Philip McCarthy

12:46:38 <dc_rdfig> Titled item A.

12:46:57 <danbri> A:"Use RDF models in your Java applications with the Jena Semantic Web Framework"

12:46:58 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A1.

12:47:13 <danbri> A:Shows examples using Wordnet-in-RDF (Melnik variant) and RDQL

12:47:14 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A2.

12:47:59 <danbri> A:(Hmm... potential for update to track Best Practices Wordnet work and DAWG SPARQL query language?)

12:48:01 <dc_rdfig> Added comment A3.

14:42:30 <DanC> .t BST

14:42:33 <phenny> Mon, 01 Nov 2004 15:42:31 BST

14:43:09 <danbri> (fwiw we're no longer in Summer time in UK)

14:43:20 <danbri> (clock says 2.42pm here)

14:43:41 <DanC> isn't S for standard?

14:43:49 <DanC> .t

14:43:51 <phenny> Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:43:50 GMT

14:44:10 <danbri> heh, i assumed Summer. Ralph'd know.

14:44:19 <libby> yep it's summer

14:44:29 <libby> british summer time

14:44:33 <danbri> -> http://www.timeanddate.com/library/abbreviations/timezones/eu/bst.html

14:44:42 <danbri> [[

14:44:42 <danbri> Time zone offset: UTC + 1 hour

14:44:42 <danbri> BST is 1 hour ahead of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC)

14:44:43 <danbri> Note that BST is a daylight saving time/summer time zone. It is generally only used during the summer in the places listed below, during the winter GMT is used instead

14:44:43 <danbri> ]]

14:44:56 <DanC> how do I ask phenny what time it is in the UK now?

14:44:59 <crschmidt> S is for standard in the US

14:45:06 <crschmidt> In most time zone names that I know of

14:45:06 <danbri> ahhhh

14:45:27 <crschmidt> Central Standard Time // Central Daylight Time is CST/CDT

14:45:36 <DanC> where I live, CDT is "central daylight time", i.e. summar time, vs. CST, central standard time

14:45:38 <danbri> the url i found suggests there is a sub-class of TimeZone, DaylightSavingTimeZone; anyone modelled these as classes yet?

14:45:54 <DanC> sorta

14:46:09 * DanC doesn't think of them as classes though

14:46:27 <DanC> er... oh. that.

14:46:32 <LotR> .t Europe/Amsterdam

14:46:35 <phenny> Sorry, I don't know about time zone EUROPE/AMSTERDAM.

14:46:42 <LotR> *pout*

14:46:48 <DanC> <owl:Class rdf:ID="Vtimezone">

14:47:08 <DanC> -- 2002/12/cal/ical

14:47:10 <crschmidt> http://inamidst.com/phenny/phenny.py -- TimeZones

14:47:33 <dc_rdfig> B: http://inamidst.com/phenny/phenny.py from crschmidt

14:48:15 <crschmidt> B:| Phenny Source Code

14:48:17 <dc_rdfig> Titled item B.

14:48:22 <crschmidt> B: Just looking at the TimeZone code

14:48:23 <dc_rdfig> Added comment B1.

14:50:34 <DanC> "RDF-in-HTML will be discussed at 1530 UTC" -- http://www.w3.org/2004/11/01-swbp-irc

14:51:14 <danbri> in 40 mins, I believe

14:51:20 * danbri fading already though :(

14:51:42 * DanC wonders what, if anything, I should do about that discussin

14:53:59 <DanC> 10:25:47 [RalphS]

14:53:59 <DanC> ... in the RDF & OWL world we can say "subClassOf"

14:53:59 <DanC> 10:26:06 [RalphS]

14:53:59 <DanC> ... in the thesaurus world they are accustomed to want to say 'broader' and 'narrower'

14:54:10 * edd spots danbri

14:54:11 <DanC> eek! don't confuse part/whole with instance/class!

14:54:22 <DanC> broader/narrower is a part/whole sorta thing.

14:56:58 * danbri thinks DanC would be reassured if he'd been here

14:57:10 <DanC> good

14:57:14 <danbri> we were discussing problem of such mismatched expectations

14:57:28 <DanC> I'm interested to see how the WG decides to record the meeting, ultimately

14:57:57 <danbri> SKOS exists, in part, cos going from a thesaurus-like model into proper RDF modelling is expensive; SKOS allows a cheap RDF description of the original, often vaguer, structures.

15:07:52 * bengee would be interested in how/if the ADTF is going to describe non-OSS projects (i.e. non-doapy tools/products).

15:09:02 * libby ignorant - I didn;t think doap refered only to OSS projects...?

15:09:52 <crschmidt> Neither did I, and the RDF description doesn't mention it, but that's what the DOAP webpage describes it as

15:09:57 <bengee> [[ DOAP is a project to create an XML/RDF vocabulary to describe open source projects ]] :(

15:10:06 <libby> ah

15:10:08 <DanC> that's not exclusive

15:10:18 <libby> because I don;t think the rdf restricts it to that

15:10:35 <bengee> am still waiting for edd to reply..

15:10:36 <libby> you could use different licenses

15:10:59 <libby> thanks for letting me know bengee, we will certainly want to describe non-OSS apps and demos

15:11:14 <bengee> many of the props could surely be handy for *any* software project..

15:11:23 <edd> i will be happy to broaden it, i think

15:11:23 <libby> yes indeed

15:11:27 <libby> yay!

15:11:29 <libby> :)

15:11:34 <bengee> edd++

15:11:48 <edd> somebody even suggested i went as far as making all the properties have the domain of foaf:Project

15:12:10 * bengee sent a msg to the list acouple of days ago

15:12:11 <crschmidt> I think that was bengee

15:12:36 <edd> ah yes, I have it highlighted for attention within a week or two ;)

15:12:39 <libby> edd did you see http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/adtf/ ? experimentally using doap now

15:13:02 <libby> http://swordfish.rdfweb.org:8080/adtf/servlet/Entry?action=v&ds=wwite&

15:13:16 <libby> there's a bit of an issue with using uris for categories within this format

15:13:30 <edd> do tell

15:13:38 <edd> i've had another pushback at URIs for categories, too

15:13:49 <danbri> just usability re display i think, no?

15:14:17 <libby> yeah we need human-readable names, from somewhere (could be an external file)

15:14:59 <libby> I do think that it might help anyway (as with foaf:interest) to have a human-readable name handy in the file

15:15:00 <bengee> re <DanC> "that's not exclusive". edd, is that how you see it, too?

15:15:39 <bengee> (wrt "describing OSS projects")

15:15:48 <edd> i guess so. my intention is deliberately to ensure it can be used for OSS projects

15:15:56 <edd> if it can be used for other things too, great!

15:16:03 <edd> i don't want to prevent that from happening

15:16:13 <libby> cool :)

15:16:42 <bengee> great, then I've finally found what I was looking for ;)

15:16:43 <edd> It seems that software projects in general would be a reasonable domain, or do you think it should be broader still?

15:16:59 <libby> for categories, what I need is a thesaurus or vocab for them. we just talked about using wikipedia

15:17:48 <peepo> peepo is now known as peepoLHR

15:17:57 <libby> ...because we need quite general categories - I think freshmeat is a bit specific for us

15:17:59 <danbri> here's a question: how do RDF/XML vocab and markup collaborations differ from OSS projects? how much common stuff can they share (eg. FOAF + DOAP descriptions...)

15:18:00 <bengee> my current use case would be software projects.

15:18:44 <Pherl> so, I was thinking about the rdf api issue.

15:18:57 <Pherl> Is it not possible to describe the properties of an rdf api in rdf

15:19:09 <Pherl> and describe the properties of the existing apis in rdf

15:19:16 <edd> libby: it's interesting how that atdf slips into français...

15:19:33 <libby> yeah :)

15:19:39 <Pherl> and be able to map the properties of a given api into the model of rdf

15:19:55 <libby> dave reynolds is looksing at how that can be improved so we can choose language

15:20:14 <edd> I will simply note that I have an objective in completing DOAP, and will make that my first priority. I will not do anything to preclude broader use, but I won't spend my limited resources on focusing on generality rather than my target goals.

15:20:17 <libby> ...rather than have it imposed

15:20:36 <edd> libby: bien, i'm about to add in a spanish translation too!

15:20:41 <danbri> edd, plenty wise :)

15:20:42 <libby> nice one

15:29:08 * bengee plans to use skos to publish a (limited) semweb category/topic thesaurus at semanticweb.org, but if the swbpd wg suggests a beter and more scalable solution, he'd be happy to go for that..

15:29:20 <bengee> s/beter/better/

15:29:37 <danbri_dna> interesting

15:29:50 <danbri_dna> maybe worth dropping an email'd note to the WG list?

15:29:59 <danbri_dna> could at least collab on thesaurus...

15:30:29 <DanC> the W3C comm team has been talking about "keywords" or something for our new items... the offices have requested them.

15:30:51 * DanC wonders if he was at liberty to disclose that. oh well.

15:31:16 * edd files a patent on keywords

15:32:15 <edd> Any RDFiggers coming to XML 2004 this year?

15:32:43 * larsbot coming for ISO meeting before, leaving Monday

15:33:05 <bengee> danbri_dna, can do. comments/suggestions would surely be helpful

15:33:15 <DanC> I'm coming to XML 2004

15:33:41 <DanC> itin. http://www.w3.org/2004/11dc-dca/itin-aa.rdf

15:34:54 <edd> That's cool. I'll see one or two of you there then.

15:35:25 <danbri_dna> re keywords, http://people.w3.org/~dom/archives/2004/07/w3c-glossary-system-updates/ and nearby relevant?

15:36:43 <peepoLHR> peepoLHR is now known as peepo

16:10:52 * bengee hugs RDF, switching the whole system from using homegrown:Project properties to doap:Project properties in less than 30 minutes :)

16:11:37 <bengee> this stuff is really starting to make sense for me..

16:12:03 <DanC> :)

16:44:39 <DanC> .t JST

16:44:41 <phenny> Tue, 02 Nov 2004 01:44:40 JST

16:56:22 <timbl>http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20041012/

16:56:25 <dc_rdfig> C: http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20041012/ from timbl

16:56:39 <timbl> C:|SPARQL Query Language for RDF

16:56:39 <dc_rdfig> Titled item C.

16:56:55 <timbl> C: Why isn't the graph syntax N3-like?

16:56:55 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C1.

17:02:24 <danbri_dna> C:Why should it be?

17:02:24 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C2.

17:02:32 <timbl> C:The working group apparently decided to use a special syntax for query, but I think they were shortsighted, and users will suffer in having to learn a third RDF syntax.

17:02:32 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C3.

17:03:12 <DanC> C:(strictly speaking, the WG is still discussing it and hasn't decided anything in particular)

17:03:12 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C4.

17:03:29 <dajobe> we did decide to go with the brql strawman

17:03:42 <DanC> true.

17:04:22 * DanC wonders to what extent that binds on this decision... figures it doesn't matter much...

17:04:32 <bengee> C:but for people who only learned rdf/xml so far, isn't learning an SQLish language easier than N3?

17:04:33 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C5.

17:05:06 <timbl> C: Use case: Fred finds an interesting feature in his clinical trials data which is reading in N3. He wonders whether there is anything else like it. He pastes the N3 into a query window, substitutes variables for some of the nodes, and does a query.

17:05:07 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C6.

17:05:47 <timbl> C: This specific question isn't about the SQLish keywords. It is about what comes between them: The triples.

17:05:47 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C7.

17:06:08 <bengee> C:ah, ok

17:06:09 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C8.

17:08:13 <DanC> logger, chump C:

17:08:13 <DanC> C:See [http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2004-11-01#T17-08-13|discussion]

17:08:14 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C9.

17:09:13 <timbl> Also, I think people will really need a more concise syntax for clarity. The current syntax uses up parentheses, so you can't use N3's list syntax, and putting in the rdf:first and rest triples will be a pain.

17:09:25 <timbl> Turtle is more or less the right level of N3, I think.

17:11:21 * DanC has decreasing hope of dodging the issues with lists/collections. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#accessingCollections

17:14:02 <DanC> speaking of lists... I'd like cwm to be able to go back and forth between formulas and lists... I thought I filed an RFE, but I can't find it

17:14:21 <DanC> ala "give me a list of all the W3C tech reports"

17:15:04 <timbl> Error 404 on http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf3#uc-di

17:15:04 <DanC> ... given a formula that says { <x> a :WD. <y> a :REC. ...}

17:15:24 <DanC> try ftf3-brs

17:15:28 <DanC> and where is that link from?

17:15:34 <danbri> C:If that's the case, maybe the HTML WG's RDF/A syntax, which is also a new W3C syntax for RDF, should have holes left in it for (ab)use as an RDF QL?

17:15:34 <dc_rdfig> Added comment C10.

17:15:35 <timbl> 12:11] DanC: has decreasing hope of dodging the issues with lists/collections. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#accessingCollections

17:15:46 <timbl> -> 404

17:15:46 <timbl> '

17:15:50 <DanC> ah... fixing...

17:15:57 <dajobe> a clear separation of query language/data works fine for XQuery too

17:16:14 <dajobe> same with rdql, brql, sparql style

17:16:24 <timbl> danC: Yes, that is something has been on the agenda for a while. Question: What is the syntax?

17:16:34 <timbl> may problem is it has many params.

17:17:31 <DanC> . http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues 1.23 has several links fixed

17:18:02 * AndyS lurks on query syntax

17:18:11 <timbl> mySet isSetOfAll ( `?x` myFormula )

17:20:22 <timbl> meaning mySet of the set of all values of ?x such that myFormula1 is true according to myFormula2.

17:20:29 <timbl> mySet isSetOfAll ( `?x` myFormula1 myFormul2 )

17:20:35 <DanC> tim, re SPARQL syntax, the mix of opinions here seems v. similar to the mix of opinions in the WG.

17:21:24 <DanC> hmm... less JosD, who brought up the ()-for-lists connection

17:21:25 <timbl> dajobe, you don't see any value in having the template of a sparql query be Turtle-like?

17:21:36 <timbl> I feel it is a crazy arbitrary complication to life

17:22:05 <dajobe> the wg went with rdql style, that's fine for me

17:22:14 <timbl> I think frankly that , and ; will turn out very much used once people use it in earnest.

17:22:24 * DanC wonders when RDQL became visible to the community, vs N3...

17:22:36 <DanC> the WG hasn't decided

17:22:42 <dajobe> what have we decided DanC?

17:23:10 <DanC> some requirements. almost nothing w.r.t. design.

17:23:26 <DanC> we've decided to publish some drafts of the design

17:23:31 <DanC> er... one draft

17:23:32 <timbl> I guess (a) RDQL was visiible as a query language and N3 as a data langauge, and (b) it is less work to write an ntriples-like parser from scratch than a turtle-lie parser.

17:24:39 <DanC> I've been pushing the WG to decide on the core definitions and some tests for weeks/months, but we haven't gotten all the ducks lined up yet.

17:24:59 <dajobe> I expect you'd get into the same area Xquery had where you had to have multiple grammars switching between xml for data and non-xml for query language so '<' isn't ambiguous and all that. lots a work

17:25:34 <timbl> xq uses a different syntax from XML because XML didn't have a concise syntax.

17:25:49 <timbl> dajobe, what would be lots of work?

17:26:18 <timbl> cutting and pasting from one to another?

17:26:25 <dajobe> It's never that simple

17:27:07 <AndyS> N3 syntax means two things to me : either Tutrle like patterns (and still SELECT etc) : also N3QL which uses formulae and outside RDF contructs

17:27:28 <timbl> We are here only talking about the former

17:28:12 <AndyS> OK - (I arrived late)

17:28:26 <timbl> (see chump C)

17:29:09 <AndyS> I also read the logs but couldn't say for certain 'cos of talk of formulae in evaluation (isSetOfAll example)

17:29:45 <timbl> (ah - sep thread that I think)

17:31:00 <AndyS> The Fred finds N3 data, I understand - and can't do same with RDF/XML (mainly XML encoding issues - and non-transparent triples)

17:32:15 <timbl> I'm kinda embarrassed about pushing N3 here as one of its creators, and but on the other hand I think that there is a lot of evidence that users find it easy to learn, and so I think to miss the option of getting learning curve on the data and the query language overlapping a lot is irresponsible.

17:33:01 <crschmidt> I've found the RDQL syntax to be really easy to understand, and encouraging to a "triples" perspective. n3, despite spending some time trying to learn it, is still not something I understand.

17:33:41 <crschmidt> However, I may be a special case in that n3 confuses me -- I started off very heavily in the "RDF is just special XML" point of view, which has hurt me ever since.

17:33:49 <dajobe> I also felt the triple-pattern was good to explain in terms of clear triples (a b c) (a b d) rather than a b c, b d.

17:33:50 <AndyS> You can write cryptic N3 like any other language :-)

17:34:05 <timbl> crschmidt, Do you understand N3 when it expresses triples, like <a> <b> <c>?

17:34:37 <sandro_> (I think "a b c, b d" absolutely has to be indented properly to be understood -- or in this case to show the syntax error, I think.)

17:35:01 <timbl> yes.

17:35:15 <crschmidt> timbl: yes, and i can wrap my head around most triple patterns in n3, but I think I fit in along with what dajobe just said: abc, abd is easier to my poor little head than abc, bd

17:35:16 <timbl> Although when you use real properties it is much more obvious!

17:35:24 <timbl> (sandro)

17:35:58 <timbl> myCar pantone:color "blue"; ma:reg "123GJH".

17:36:45 <crschmidt> ?mycar pantone:color "blue", ?mycar ma:reg ?reg

17:37:13 <jsled> crschmidt: '.' ends a triple. ',' repeats the same subject.

17:37:23 <jsled> s/same subject/same subject and property/

17:38:09 <AndyS> I observe that much confusion come from ',' less from ';'

17:38:11 <crschmidt> I do know that I've seen a lot of people pick up RDQL (from experience with the redlandbot/julie code) with no previous RDF experience at all

17:38:43 <AndyS> Cool - DAWG really ought to get a move on then!

17:39:16 <crschmidt> And I saw the same thing with wh4's Squish (or whatever that was called, can't remember if I'm making up words atm ;))

17:39:33 <dajobe> that's the right names

17:39:53 <timbl> Maybe people aren't used to thinking of "," as being a smaller scale punctuation than ";" ? Funny - US newspaper headlines even use it a la VOTERS QUIZ BUSH, KERRY

17:40:30 <crschmidt> For me, it's easiest to just always have all the aspects of the triple there. Although I guess n3 wouldn't limit that at all? I'm not really sure.

17:40:35 <jsled> timbl: maybe that's the problem ',' < ';', but (subject+property) > (subject) ... ?

17:40:58 <jsled> fwiw, in practice in writing n3/turtle, it's not an issue...

17:41:02 <jsled> [for me]

17:41:21 * danbri feels like that re your # vs / position, timbl ;)

17:42:51 * sandro_ runs and hides

17:42:58 <sandro_> sandro_ is now known as sandro

17:44:05 <AndyS> No limit - you can write N3 and get qnames for N-Triples.

17:49:58 <sh1m> how is stuff going in Bristol then?

17:53:28 <AndyS> Very well! (Spec writing ....)

17:54:10 <dajobe> bbl

17:55:34 <timbl> So if people don't like the ";" and ",", could we please just have a triples like syntax which actually is a superset of NTriples and a subset of Turtle and N3?

17:56:36 <timbl> We've got three compatible languages on this axis, which is valuable and IMHO a great benefit.

18:04:00 * timbl looks fro food

18:04:18 * Pherl stomach grumbles

18:05:17 * AndyS in favor :-)

18:17:44 <Aniasis> Hello

18:19:16 <Aniasis> I was wondering I am compiling a movie database/repository for searching. It is not neccessarily going to be on the web and it may run on Windows. Would RDF/RDQL be the best solution or should I stick with DB/SQL

18:29:15 <jsled> Aniasis: that's a very hard question to answer generically, but I'd probably say stick with DB/SQL... But it really depends on a bunch of things.

18:29:37 <jsled> Aniasis: why not do both, though? DB/SQL core with a RDF/RDQL interface?

18:35:07 <Aniasis> jsled, I want to store all my info in RDF or DB.

18:35:29 <Aniasis> I think doing both is redundant and maybe more difficult.

18:35:56 <jsled> Hmm. Certainly would be more effort, but not necessarily redundant.

18:36:12 <jsled> A third option is to store it in "triples tables" in a db.

18:36:24 <jsled> [or use an existing triple-store that maps into a database]

18:36:24 <Aniasis> I really want to know if there an application that allows me to run queries on RDF data.

18:37:03 <jsled> Yup. cwm. jena. redland. ...

18:37:25 <Aniasis> jsled, any of those work on a Windows desktop?

18:37:58 <jsled> sure, all of them. cwm is python; jena: java. redland is a C core, but language-wrapped into like every practical lang around.

18:38:41 <jsled> at least jena has a small first-order application for executing a query against a datastore.

18:38:58 <jsled> cwm "has" one as well [as a command-line flag]

18:39:05 <jsled> redland might ... I can't recall.

18:39:08 <dajobe> yes

18:39:26 <dajobe> either http://librdf.org/utils/rdfproc.html or http://librdf.org/rasqal/roqet.html

18:39:51 <jsled> coo'.

20:18:40 * mmealling gets a minor headache trying to model the concept of 'location' within the supply chain....

20:20:48 <mmealling> especially as it relates to location vs containment. I.e. "where is it at" is different from "what is it in".

20:21:13 <mmealling> sorry... using the channel to think out loud....

20:22:30 <crschmidt> Yeah, what were you thninking? YOu interrupted all that interesteing discussion.

20:22:34 <crschmidt> ;)

20:37:45 <sh1m> heh

20:37:52 <sh1m> sh1m is now known as sh1mmer

21:02:49 <mmealling> heh.... now to figure out how an 'observation' fits into location and containment....

21:12:46 <ear1grey> sounds like a job for the reification fairy.

21:37:28 <pjenvey_> Andrew Tanenbaum is behind electoral-vote.com: http://www.electoral-vote.com/info/votemaster-faq.html

21:37:50 <pjenvey_> excellent

21:38:10 * crschmidt doesn't know who Andrew Tanenbaum is

21:38:42 <crschmidt> (Well, didn't until I read that page this morning.)

21:38:52 * mortenf has some of his books

21:39:23 <KjetilK> Tanenbaum++

21:45:53 <dajobe>http://lists.usefulinc.com/pipermail/redland-announce/2004q4/000029.html

21:45:55 <dc_rdfig> D: http://lists.usefulinc.com/pipermail/redland-announce/2004q4/000029.html from dajobe

21:46:08 <dajobe> D:|Redland 0.9.19 - with SPARQL support, serializing

21:46:09 <dc_rdfig> Titled item D.

21:48:11 <jsled> Yeah ... I got Distributed Systems : Principles and Paradigm not too long ago, which is really good.

21:48:12 <mortenf> mmm

21:48:47 <dajobe> D:the last SWADE release of redland work

21:48:48 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D1.

22:05:17 <edd> D:/me applauds

22:05:17 <dc_rdfig> Added comment D2.

22:05:36 <edd> bah, we don't have /me on that stylesheet :)

22:08:00 <sh1mmer> heh

23:04:03 <CloCkWeRX[dc]> CloCkWeRX[dc] is now known as CloCkWeRX

23:27:51 <sanctius> vous souhaite une très bonne nuit à tous et plein de beaux rêves dans les bras de Morphée ???

23:53:13 <dajobe> quit