Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2005-02-28

02:56:22 * sandro waves sickly, suspecting he will be far from mended in 9 hours and so will miss at least some of the swig f2f.

07:14:14 <Davey> Davey is now known as D[a]vey

08:42:27 <bengtf_mtg> bengtf_mtg is now known as bengtf

10:07:18 <dajobe> dajobe has changed the topic to: Semantic Web Interest Group hack-n-chat - UTF-8 charset please - Weblog: http://swig.xmlhack.com/ - Logs: http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/swig/ - please identify with NickServ | SWIG meeting Mon Feb28/Tue Mar1 Boston - chat here

10:07:38 <dajobe> that's wishful topicing

11:25:19 <Mkflow> hi all

11:36:57 <kota> so everyone's in boston now?

11:59:50 <benja_> kota: I'm not =-}

12:00:06 <kota> neither me :(

12:55:35 * DanC_lap looks around for a VBR draft from dajobe...

14:01:19 <bandri>http://esw.w3.org/topic/SwigAtTp2005

14:01:19 <dc_swig> A: http://esw.w3.org/topic/SwigAtTp2005 from bandri

14:07:38 * Yoshio slides of em?

14:08:56 <Yoshio> = http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/0228-swig-em/

14:14:05 <chaalsPHL> chaalsPHL is now known as chaalsBOS

14:19:54 <Yoshio> Self-introductions

14:21:58 <chaalsBOS> Andreas Hart (?) PhD student from DERI

14:22:31 <chaalsBOS> Amit Sher (?) Semantics - a company - also professor at U georgia

14:22:38 <chaalsBOS> Phil Tetlow, IBM

14:22:53 * chaalsBOS rememers Phil makes good coffee

14:23:09 <chaalsBOS> Yoshio Fukushige - W3C Fellow from Matsushita

14:23:26 * chaalsBOS decides not to do this to avoid RSI

14:23:47 <Yoshio> Yoshio: interested in representating of probabilistic relations

14:24:06 <Yoshio> Next to Yoshio: Hiroyuki Sato

14:24:49 <Cloud_> Cloud_ is now known as Cloud

14:26:46 * Yoshio why not do self-introduction on irc, too?

14:26:53 <HiroyukiS> Thanks, Yoshio. I'm from Nippon Telegraph & Telephone Corp (NTT), Japan

14:26:55 <bijan> Laziness :)

14:27:33 <HiroyukiS> interestd in knowledge sharing using RDF and P2P

14:29:24 <tlr> This inaudible from the back of the room.

14:30:52 <AndyS> Andy Seaborne : HP : DAWG : Interested in publishing and reuse of information on the web

14:32:46 <bijan> Bijan Parsia: University of Maryland : On the WSDL working group, editor of the WSDL to RDF mapping ; former member of the OWL-S coalition; research in automated theorem proving, extensions to owl, modeling, HCI for knowledge systems, ontology engineering and use, trust reasoning, planning for services, etc. etc.

14:32:58 <AndyS> and writing long lines

14:33:22 <bijan> Oh and rules and combinations of kbs

14:33:23 <Yoshio> :)

14:33:25 <bijan> And stuff

14:33:42 <bijan> Hey, I abbreviated my affilitation

14:33:55 <bijan> If I write out the whole thing, it'd have been longer my blurb

14:35:52 <Yoshio> Eric Prud'nommeaux (sp?)

14:36:10 <libby> A:|SWIG at W3C tech plenary 2005 - evolving agenda

14:36:19 <libby> s/n/h/

14:36:35 <libby>http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/0228-swig-em/

14:36:44 <libby> hm

14:36:56 <crschmidt> no dc_swig

14:37:01 <libby> eek!

14:37:05 <libby> ah well

14:37:23 <libby> and no dajobe!

14:37:26 <dajobe> hmm, hold on

14:37:34 <Yoshio> EricPs slide : http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/28-DAWG-SWIG/

14:37:37 <chaalsBOS> Chaals (Charles McCathieNevile): Ex W3C staff (WAI / SWAD-E / QA), currently "between jobs". Interested in Semantic Web for accessibility (people with disabilities - in my spare time I am vice-presidente and burro especial of a spanish-language accessibility group, fundacion sidar http://www.sidar.org - accessing the web), multilingual stuff and cultural things. (By training I'm a medieval historian)

14:38:02 <dajobe>http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/0228-swig-em/

14:38:03 <dc_swig> B: http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/0228-swig-em/ from dajobe

14:38:10 * bandri didn't trawl for scribing

14:38:20 <bandri> but if folks could take turns typing here that'd be great

14:38:22 <bandri> bandri is now known as danbri

14:38:40 <dajobe> B:|Eric Miller's SWIG 2005 slides

14:38:40 <dc_swig> Titled item B.

14:38:55 <libby> cheers dave!

14:39:11 <libby>http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/28-DAWG-SWIG/

14:39:11 <dc_swig> C: http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/28-DAWG-SWIG/ from libby

14:39:30 <libby> C:|EricP's slides on DAWG

14:39:30 <dc_swig> Titled item C.

14:48:17 <danbri> question: how much do we care about trying to scribe discussion? vs just capturing links?

14:48:25 <danbri> i lean towards link capture at least...

14:49:32 <Yoshio> it would help if one enters his question...

14:49:53 <Yoshio> s/his/his or her/

14:49:59 * las2 notes that audibility varies around the room

14:50:00 <danbri> em: i wondre if the DAWG can take advantge of the Interest Group to help shape future directions

14:50:33 <danbri> ...balance aspects of having something 'rock solid' but take ages... vs quicker but less stable, etc

14:50:49 <danbri> ...how to help dawg?

14:51:09 <danbri> ericp: most help the IG could provide is... in spec, we have various bits of the spec written in red, flaged as an issue

14:51:14 <danbri> ...input on those bits esp useful

14:51:52 <danbri> em: some of the issues aren't explained v clearly for external input

14:52:41 <chaalsBOS> asked whether there was some resourced plan to resolve difficult things in a version 2, or if the public are going to get into a panic about making sure the first version has the things we need.

14:53:22 <chaalsBOS> [response was that this is likely to be based on response to the first version - if we want more, implement what we get as a start ]

14:53:25 <danbri> danbri: rdf query / xml query relation

14:53:33 <danbri> em: xml gives us typed literals

14:53:37 <danbri> s/em/ericp/

14:54:08 <danbri> ...used a subset of xml functions/operators

14:54:30 <danbri> ...people who are used to doing xslt or xquery will have at least some familiarity

14:54:48 <danbri> jjc: how clsoe to last call?

14:55:01 <danbri> ericp: hoping for end march for most docs

14:55:21 <danbri> jjc: some issues from rdfcore and webont were postponed beyond wg, due to lack time/effort

14:55:31 <benja_> what does "xml gives us typed literals" mean in this context? that the type-related stuff from xquery can be lifted to dawg?

14:55:49 <dajobe> benja_: read the sparql query WD

14:56:52 <danbri> anyone care to scribe more?

14:57:05 <AndyS> The evalaution of, say, "?x < 5" is based on XML schema datatypes of if ?x is bound to "3"^^xsd:integer then it woudl pass that test

14:57:34 <benja_> the relevant part being "In addition, SPARQL imports a subset of the XPath functions, listed in table 11.2, which are invoked by name within a SPARQL query. These operations are taken from the XQuery 1.0 and XPath 2.0 Functions and Operators [17]." <http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20050217/#tests>?

14:59:14 <AndyS> yes - section 11.1 and section 11.2 (which has table 11.2) - make sense?

14:59:28 <benja_> yes

14:59:33 <benja_> thx

15:00:15 * chaalsBOS can scribe this talk

15:00:27 <las2> Chris Bizer (w/ Jeremy, Hayes, Stickler)

15:00:29 <chaalsBOS> Chris Bizer, talking about SPARQL and named graphs

15:00:47 <las2> /msg chaalsBOS all yours.

15:01:02 <chaalsBOS> using WITH and FROM to determine which bits of data you query over

15:01:12 <danbri> thanks chaals (&las2)

15:01:15 <chaalsBOS> so you can do trust weighting and so on over the sources

15:01:31 <benja_> (benja_ reads sparql draft) a==a is false for literals and bnodes?

15:01:38 <chaalsBOS> and only collect information from people we actually trust...

15:02:01 <chaalsBOS> So think of a dataset - a background graph and some named graphs

15:02:22 <chaalsBOS> will talk about implementing them, signing them, and talk of use cases (versioning and provenance)

15:02:28 <chaalsBOS> Implementations.

15:02:39 * chaalsBOS wonders if these slides are online somewhere

15:03:04 <chaalsBOS> NG4J implements this stuff for Jena

15:03:18 <danbri> A:|SwigAtTp2005

15:03:18 <dc_swig> Titled item A.

15:03:32 <danbri> A:+[http://beta.foaf-project.org/2004/media/wp-content/moblog-images/2005-02-28_143010_4866_0.jpg]

15:03:32 <dc_swig> Added comment A1.

15:03:33 <chaalsBOS> API that works on named graphs

15:03:55 <chaalsBOS> A "quad" API

15:04:03 <chaalsBOS> new slide

15:04:28 <chaalsBOS> THere is an XML syntax (TriX)

15:05:00 <chaalsBOS> so you can use any XML tool. But it is verbose. (looks like ntriples re-encoded in XML, to me)

15:05:02 <danbri> A:+[http://beta.foaf-project.org/2004/media/wp-content/moblog-images/2005-02-28_150851_7242_0.jpg] (Chris Bizer)

15:05:02 <dc_swig> Added comment A2.

15:05:14 <chaalsBOS> Also TriG, based on Turtle

15:05:19 <chaalsBOS> two syntaxes...

15:05:52 <chaalsBOS> interesting with respect to GetGraph in SPARQL

15:06:12 <chaalsBOS> being able to accept trig/trix formats allows different optimisations

15:06:29 <chaalsBOS> From implemetation experience:

15:06:36 <chaalsBOS> repositories fill up quickly.

15:07:07 <chaalsBOS> Wildcards might also be useful - for example to backup data...

15:07:22 <chaalsBOS> Publishing with signatures.

15:07:44 <chaalsBOS> Take a graph, relate it to provenance / digital signature stuff.

15:08:01 <chaalsBOS> (some implementation detail, code example in TriG)

15:08:51 <chaalsBOS> signing a staement inside the statement through some kind of sha_1

15:09:20 <chaalsBOS> or signing something where there are multiple named graphs, and signing a few of them at once in a graph.

15:10:19 <chaalsBOS> Some use cases of NG4J - a list including SWED (faceted browser), source code versioning (/me glad to see that), ontology evolution, and so on.

15:11:38 <D[a]vey> D[a]vey is now known as Davey

15:11:54 <benja_> what I've always been unclear about re this work -- if I aggregate the graphs http://foo/1 and http://foo/2 and store the result as TriG and publish at http://bar/, and someone else tries to load http://bar/ and aggregate it, what happens? so I claim that http://foo/1 says X; do they have to believe that http://foo/1 says X in order to store that http://bar/ says that http://foo/1 says X?

15:12:06 <chaalsBOS> Questions...

15:12:16 * danbri updates http://esw.w3.org/topic/SwigAtTp2005

15:12:47 <chaalsBOS> Q - is there another reason for using this stuff in sparql than avoiding loading a lot of namespaces?

15:13:14 * chaalsBOS not clear what the answer is

15:13:30 <chaalsBOS> Danbri notes that DanC has tried to get Turtle published as SWIG note

15:13:54 <chaalsBOS> someone notes N3 (as a hack of unknown status but wide use) is in the SPARQL spec

15:14:13 <chaalsBOS> Q- observations on scalability?

15:14:22 <chaalsBOS> Stephen - working on it

15:14:30 <las2> /msg RRS testing whether I fixed msgs

15:14:40 <danbri> nope :)

15:15:01 <chaalsBOS> Jeremy - Jena is triple oriented. Named graphs moves towards quad-based view.

15:15:09 <chaalsBOS> Chris- we are not using Jena that much

15:15:19 <Yoshio> someone in "someone notes N3 ..." is Kendall Clark

15:15:22 <chaalsBOS> ... we have our own database backend

15:15:52 <chaalsBOS> JJC (Jeremy) so there are two routes - you can build on a triple- or quad-based structure

15:16:04 <chaalsBOS> AndyS - Jena has a quad-based thing: SPARQL

15:16:23 <chaalsBOS> RRS - Timbl has log:includes in N3. What's the relation between that and named graphs

15:16:39 <chaalsBOS> JJC is thinking - will get back to you

15:16:39 * bijan wonders how widely used N3 really is

15:16:55 <chaalsBOS> RRS - it is a relation etween a formula and a statement

15:17:09 * chaalsBOS thinks a bit of it is widely used, and the cool stuff isn't so common

15:17:21 <las2> /msg danbri trying again :-)

15:17:29 <chaalsBOS> las2 nope

15:17:30 <danbri> nope x2 :)

15:18:22 <chaalsBOS> JJC - this is about how you can collect stuff up and compare things, passing pieces of data. THe idea is that we have avoided something that is not well-documented in n3, where it might merge blank nodes.

15:18:47 <chaalsBOS> ... also, n3 formulae are hard to name, so harder to re-use.

15:19:02 <Fabien_> Named Graph Website http://www.w3.org/2004/03/trix/

15:19:10 <chaalsBOS> bijan: THere are other kinds of variables in n3 formulae that don't appear in named graphs. How do they nest?

15:19:20 <chaalsBOS> JJC - they will nest

15:19:52 <chaalsBOS> Bijan - as an object, not subgraph. In n3 formulae they are a bit mixed - sort of an object, sort of a subgraph.

15:20:10 <chaalsBOS> ... I think there are a lot more issues. Named Graphs and N3 are not designed to support the same thing

15:20:23 <chaalsBOS> JJC one design appraoch is to do as little as possible

15:21:30 <chaalsBOS> Jos - our experience is that there are two kinds of names. Seperate documents, whose URI can be used, and graphs that have names so you pass them by value.

15:21:52 <chaalsBOS> Bijan - if the literal form of the graph is its name, they are not mutable

15:21:58 <chaalsBOS> JJC nor are named graphs

15:22:13 <chaalsBOS> Jos - there is a trade-off. We get long graphs. But it is working

15:22:35 <chaalsBOS> PatrickS - you are using graph as name not graph as graph

15:22:50 <chaalsBOS> PhilT - have an issue with dimensions and abstractions

15:23:11 <chaalsBOS> ... when I look up associated syntax implementations they are dimension specific - we have triples, or quads

15:23:20 <chaalsBOS> ... and there are things that go to higher dimensions

15:23:47 <chaalsBOS> ... but syntax is ased on dimension. Is there a value to astracting the syntax further?

15:23:52 <chaalsBOS> bijan: makes sense

15:24:03 * chaalsBOS starting to get lost around his belly-button fluff

15:24:20 <chaalsBOS> JJC See the triple-oriented thing as an attempt to be as simple as possible

15:24:29 <chaalsBOS> ... think that might have been too simple

15:24:36 <chaalsBOS> PhilT notes that was deliberate

15:25:26 <chaalsBOS> JJC reification, which came from using triples, doesn't work well enough and isn't enough of a solution, which motivates moving to quads. ut then you get another indirection case, and you want to move to quintuples...

15:25:44 <chaalsBOS> Coffee break. Return at 10h45 boston time

15:45:03 <Yoshio_> Yoshio_ is now known as Yoshio

15:47:38 * Yoshio am I still here?

15:48:04 <danbri>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/XSCH/xsch-sw-20050127/

15:48:16 <danbri> Jeremy will intropduce this document

15:49:16 <libby> yes yoshio

15:51:24 <shashi_from> shashi_from is now known as shashi

15:51:48 * Yoshio thanks

16:07:33 * Fabien_ test

16:20:45 <erim>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2005Feb/att-0049/NamedGraphsMeetSPARQL_TechPlen2005.ppt

16:20:55 <erim> hm.... no dc_rdf?

16:21:29 <erim> ah well... ^ is the "Named Graphs meet SPARQL" presented by Chris Bizer

16:22:59 * crschmidt poings dajobe

16:22:59 <crschmidt> (dc_swig dropped again)

16:23:05 <carine> ericm: can you control the chump bot?

16:23:26 <erim> dajobe is the chump bot master...

16:23:55 <dajobe> hold on

16:24:03 * carine can lend #sws-ig's chump, but it would chump to sws-ig space in w3.org

16:24:58 <dajobe> ericP: go ahead

16:25:03 <dajobe> ack, erim

16:27:24 * chaalsBOS thinks "sounds like a good semantic web project... :-)"

16:27:38 <erim>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2005Feb/att-0049/NamedGraphsMeetSPARQL_TechPlen2005.ppt

16:27:38 <dc_swig> D: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2005Feb/att-0049/NamedGraphsMeetSPARQL_TechPlen2005.ppt from erim

16:28:30 <erim> B:|Named Graphs meet SPARQL

16:28:31 <dc_swig> Titled item B.

16:28:50 <erim> B: presented by Chris Bizer

16:28:51 <dc_swig> Added comment B1.

16:29:06 <aliman_> Oxford Brookes university teaches a semantic web module in their web technologies MSc ...

16:29:10 <aliman_>http://wwwcms.brookes.ac.uk/modules/web_tech/semantic_web.htm

16:29:10 <dc_swig> E: http://wwwcms.brookes.ac.uk/modules/web_tech/semantic_web.htm from aliman_

16:29:45 <aliman_> E:|Semantic Web teaching module at Oxford Brookes University

16:29:45 <dc_swig> Titled item E.

16:30:11 <aliman_> E: Course tutor is David Duce

16:30:12 <dc_swig> Added comment E1.

16:30:37 * erim realizes he cant do more things at once apparently, has problems with colloquy and goofed up the chumpbot

16:32:03 <aliman_> E: teaching material used to be public online, but just recently restricted to students only :(

16:32:03 <dc_swig> Added comment E2.

16:34:42 <Yoshio> sorry, I missed what that pad is for...

16:35:20 <Yoshio> kendall?

16:35:26 <aliman_> aliman_ is now known as aliman

16:36:03 <chaalsBOS> Yoshio, it is to write your name and contact email if you want to be on Kendall's mailing list to help develop interop testing.

16:36:18 <bijan> The pad is for people interested in being on the technical organizing committee of the nasa sponsored semantic web interopt event

16:36:25 <crschmidt> B:| Eric Miller's SWIG 2005 slides

16:36:25 <dc_swig> Titled item B.

16:36:32 <Yoshio> thanks

16:36:33 <bijan> I.e., put your name and email if you are so interested

16:36:42 * erim thanks crschmidt

16:36:42 <crschmidt> D:| Named Graphs meet SPARQL

16:36:43 <dc_swig> Titled item D.

16:37:05 <crschmidt> D: presented by Chris Bizer

16:37:05 <dc_swig> Added comment D1.

16:37:12 <crschmidt> B1:""

16:37:12 <dc_swig> Deleted comment B1.

16:37:24 <crschmidt> there we go, should be all fixed

16:37:46 * erim thanks crschmidt for help

16:37:53 <ericP> jjc, fun complex type equality problem: does <apply><power/><e/><apply><multiply/><pi/><i/></apply></apply> equal "-1"^^xs:integer ?

16:38:08 <ericP> (that was e**(pi i))

16:38:34 <danbri> heh, ask maxf

16:44:36 * Yoshio hmm RDF/A ...

16:46:51 <Mkflow> hi all

16:57:41 <danbri> bijan: info integration pitch from SW meets some skepticism from folks who do this at industral strength today

16:57:54 <danbri> esp as some need for retooling infrastructure away from mainstream xml

16:58:32 <tlr> I'm hearing rumors that lunch is ready.

16:58:37 <[GNU]> Hello World!

16:58:40 <danbri> 1 min :)

16:59:28 <sh1mmer> hmm swig people are quiet

16:59:39 <sh1mmer> what's happening in your meeting?

16:59:52 <danbri> monkey knife fights

17:00:15 <sh1mmer> take out tetlow for me

17:00:37 <eaon> hey sh1mmer

17:00:41 <sh1mmer> hi mikey

17:00:42 <eaon> you already in bosten?

17:00:54 <sh1mmer> danbri, whatsthe url for the agennda?

17:01:07 <sh1mmer> danbri, I maydropin later if there is something I wanna see

17:01:10 <sh1mmer> eaon, ja

17:01:19 <libby> shim it's on swig.xmlhack.com

17:01:22 <danbri> :

17:01:25 <crschmidt> SwigAtTp2005 on the wiki

17:01:25 <danbri> A:

17:01:25 <dc_swig>http://esw.w3.org/topic/SwigAtTp2005

17:01:26 * eaon is jealous

17:01:26 <dc_swig> SwigAtTp2005

17:01:27 <dc_swig> (1:danbri) +[http://beta.foaf-project.org/2004/media/wp-content/moblog-images/2005-02-28_143010_4866_0.jpg]

17:01:28 <dc_swig> (2:danbri) +[http://beta.foaf-project.org/2004/media/wp-content/moblog-images/2005-02-28_150851_7242_0.jpg] (Chris Bizer)

17:01:33 <eaon> at least i've got a very nice waitress here

17:02:10 * dajobe steps back from the screen

17:02:31 <Yoshio> slides?

17:03:27 <sh1mmer> :( doesn't lookas fullas last year

17:03:55 * Yoshio harder for non-English speakers, too

17:04:20 <swh> lunch

17:04:44 <libby> ---lunch for us, back in an hour

17:04:59 <sh1mmer> see you at lunch

17:14:54 <[GNU]> .time BST

17:15:08 <[GNU]> ah man...

17:15:25 <[GNU]> the doap examples at http://svn.usefulinc.com/svn/repos/trunk/doap/examples are down :(

17:15:54 <[GNU]> or maybe svn.usefulinc.com doesnt do anon anymore

17:16:40 <dajobe> [GNU]: svn's been having permission's problems, I'll pass it on

17:17:21 <[GNU]> thx

17:45:22 <Yoshio_> Yoshio_ is now known as Yoshio

17:49:07 <balbinus_> balbinus_ is now known as balbinus

17:50:59 <benja_> danja: hi

17:53:32 <danja> hi benja

17:53:37 <danja> you in Boston?

17:54:45 <benja_> no, unfortunately... no money for that kind of thing...

17:55:03 <benja_> you?

17:55:03 <danja> heh, me neither

17:55:08 <benja_> right =)

17:55:19 <benja_> have a look at http://himalia.it.jyu.fi/~benja/ff-screenshots-2005-02-27/

17:55:51 <benja_> I note you have two blogs, according to your published RDF: http://dannyayers.com/ and http://dannyayers.com/.../site_admin

17:56:15 <danja> hey, that's looking good

17:56:38 <danja> site_admin? hmm - something weird in template

17:57:11 <danja> desperately need to update that FOAF

17:58:20 <danja> _:Orlando foaf:status "pushing up daisies" .

17:58:38 <danja> :-(

17:59:14 <danja> what's the current position with FF re. releases?

17:59:29 <benja_> I have two versions of the pets -- the ones in the FOAF have neither URIs nor IFPs, so they don't get smushed...

18:00:01 <danja> (meeow!)

18:00:14 <benja_> danja: unfortunately still not close :-( -- it seems like it's still going to be months until we have a nonprofit set up

18:00:35 <danja> aw. Good to see you're keeping at it though

18:00:59 <danja> any developments with that patent issue?

18:00:59 <benja_> otoh, if we get the statement from the lawyer, we might find another legal entity willing to distribute it... (need to put legal statement on my todo)

18:01:44 * danja cringes at legal issues

18:03:12 <benja_> the site-admin has the rdfs:seeAlso, but http://dannyayers.com is what the acutal RSS uses =-p

18:03:29 * danja adds to to-do

18:03:47 <danja> ah, before I forget...

18:04:36 <benja_> [urgh, I broke my smushing code. now I have 12 dannys around. argl!]

18:04:42 <benja_> hm?

18:04:58 <danja> must get those other 11 working

18:05:01 <crschmidt> heh, heh

18:05:16 <danja> something to chump

18:05:20 <danja>http://gridreporter.com/

18:05:20 <dc_swig> F: http://gridreporter.com/ from danja

18:05:33 <danja> F:| Grid Blog

18:05:33 <dc_swig> Titled item F.

18:05:57 <danja> F: if anyone at the meet mentions anything vaguely grid-related please ping me :-)

18:05:57 <dc_swig> Added comment F1.

18:07:59 * danja the blog whore

18:08:18 <benja_> danja: btw: you have a literal foaf:mbox in your foaf

18:09:51 <danja> oops, thanks

18:11:13 <danja> commented out for now - needs a thorough overhaul

18:12:04 <libby> heya danja

18:12:33 <danja> hi libby

18:12:57 <dajobe> hell

18:13:06 * danja flips to photo, counting millers...

18:13:06 <dajobe> what's up with that bot

18:13:53 <danja> looks like 2, one at the back fuzzy - is that you libby?

18:14:10 * libby fuzzy, true

18:14:23 <libby> brb

18:14:49 <Yoshio_> Yoshio_ is now known as Yoshio

18:31:18 * danbri updates http://esw.w3.org/topic/SwigAtTp2005#

18:32:49 <danbri> jjc, I added an rdf/a lightning talk for you in http://esw.w3.org/topic/SwigAtTp2005# this pm...

18:32:53 <danbri> heh

18:34:10 <libby> oh is this your new mechanism for getting people to do lightning talks ? ;)

18:39:31 <danbri> libby, ...? ;)

18:39:41 * libby hides

18:40:13 <libby> hm, today woudl be a good day to solicit apps and demos for the list though

18:41:06 <afs> afs is now known as AndyS

18:45:45 * bengee wonders if cc:License could be seen as an rdfs:subClassOf of foaf:Document..

18:46:34 <bengee> any arguments against that sub-classing?

18:49:32 <bengee> 3-2-1-ok, will try that for now

18:49:46 <bandri2> am collecting talks for tommorrow too

19:00:17 <bandri2> scribe volunteer?

19:00:27 <bandri2> bijan: 'argh too much...' (interestingness going on...)

19:00:59 <bandri2> ...talking re filmtrust experiment; Swoop (v2.2 looms tommorrow) & also Econnection-based ontology partitioning work... at Mindswap

19:01:56 <bandri2> ...econnection - fully auto'd process for partioning

19:02:29 <bandri2> bijan: jen golbeck's filmtrust work

19:02:41 <bandri2>http://trust.mindswap.org/FilmTrust

19:03:01 <bandri2> A:

19:03:40 <crschmidt> no bot

19:04:03 * dajobe grrrr

19:04:12 <dajobe> dies with a python error

19:04:19 <bandri2> ok thought i was disconnected

19:04:39 <bandri2>http://trust.mindswap.org/FilmTrust

19:04:39 <dc_swig> G: http://trust.mindswap.org/FilmTrust from bandri2

19:05:03 <bandri2> G:|FilmTrust work from Jen Golbeck & friends at Mindswap

19:05:04 <dc_swig> Titled item G.

19:06:45 <bandri2> bijan: we rate movie ratings by the trust value of the recommender

19:07:07 <bandri2> ...weighted by the trust rating

19:07:24 <bandri2> ...there are a lot more complex algorithms out there, but this simple approach works pretty well

19:10:47 <bandri2> ...opensource dist'n of server software planned

19:10:55 <bandri2> ...got permission from IMDB to scrape titles etc

19:10:59 <bandri2> Swoop

19:11:08 <bandri2> ...web browser inspired ontology editor

19:11:10 <bandri2> [demo]

19:12:28 <bandri2> (someone else welcome to scribe; am agenda hacking...)

19:14:02 * bandri2 updates http://esw.w3.org/topic/SwigAtTp2005

19:16:23 <bandri2> bijan: Swoop is good for multiple ontologies

19:16:30 <bandri2> ...understands owl:imports

19:16:33 <bandri2> ...but keeps things separate

19:17:07 <bandri2> ...several reasoning modes (RDFS-like, Dig(Test); No Reasoner; Pellet...

19:17:15 <bandri2> ...RDFS-like clusters things usefully

19:17:38 <bandri2> eg. groups classes w/ properties that have them as their domain

19:20:41 <Fabien> Pointer to SWOOP : http://www.mindswap.org/2004/SWOOP/

19:20:51 <bandri2> ...handles big onto (nci...) well

19:21:06 <bandri2> in tanbis onto, good example

19:21:10 <bandri2> 144 unsatisfiable classes

19:21:14 <bandri2> ...hard

19:21:18 <bandri2> non-local effects

19:21:26 <bandri2> metal and non-metal are defined to be disjoint

19:21:31 <bandri2> but also equiv to some class description

19:21:39 <bandri2> ...clashes

19:24:27 <bandri2> ...developingn both glass (?) and blackbox techniques for checking for unsatisfiable concepts

19:24:45 <bandri2> ...hope we can show in UI chains of dependency amongst bugs

19:24:55 <bandri2> ...expecting structural analysis to make a big comback

19:24:57 <bandri2> comeback

19:25:24 <bandri2> ...also eclipse-like "show reference" support

19:25:42 <bandri2> ...extensive change, changelogging, checkpointing facilities

19:27:33 <bandri2> ...webdav support for editing the onto, also annotea for commenting on it

19:27:41 <bandri2> ...can save chainsets of edits

19:35:47 <jjc> jjc is now known as jjc2

19:35:51 <jjc2> jjc2 is now known as jjc

19:36:37 <libby> was this it? http://www.mindswap.org/2004/multipleOnt/

19:37:29 <sh1mmer> does anywhere knowwhere Icould get a stack of Boston postcards tonight?

19:37:49 <chaalsBOS> lib, looks right

19:37:59 <chaalsBOS> sh1mmer, try in Boston :-)

19:38:09 <sh1mmer> chaalsBOS, don't makeme hurt you

19:39:32 <libby> why am I looking right?

19:39:36 <bandri2> bijan: we use xml literals to represent changes in the graph

19:40:09 <chaalsBOS> lib, because you are clever I suspect :-) I meant you had the right URI for Biajn's stuff.

19:41:28 <erim>http://www.mindswap.org/2004/SWOOP/

19:41:29 <dc_swig> H: http://www.mindswap.org/2004/SWOOP/ from erim

19:41:45 <erim> dc_swig? did we loose this again?

19:41:48 <erim> ah!

19:41:59 <erim> H:|SWOOP - A Hypermedia-based Featherweight OWL Ontology Editor

19:41:59 <dc_swig> Titled item H.

19:42:26 <libby> ah ta chaals

19:42:27 <erim> H: presented by Bijan Parsia

19:42:27 <dc_swig> Added comment H1.

19:42:39 <libby>http://www.mindswap.org/2004/multipleOnt/

19:42:39 <dc_swig> I: http://www.mindswap.org/2004/multipleOnt/ from libby

19:42:47 <Fabien>http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/

19:42:47 <dc_swig> J: http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/ from Fabien

19:43:09 <libby> I:|E-Connections in a Semantic Web Context

19:43:09 <dc_swig> Titled item I.

19:43:12 <Fabien> J: SKOS Knowledge Organisation Systems and the Semantic Web

19:43:12 <dc_swig> Added comment J1.

19:44:34 <Fabien>http://www.w3.org/2004/03/thes-tf/primer/

19:44:34 <dc_swig> K: http://www.w3.org/2004/03/thes-tf/primer/ from Fabien

19:44:53 <Fabien> K: Quick Guide to Publishing a Thesaurus on the Semantic Web

19:44:54 <dc_swig> Added comment K1.

19:46:02 <DAllemang> Is registration for attending this meeting in-person closed? I just learned about it today, and would like to attend.

19:47:53 <bandri2> yep it's closed, sorry. it would've been unfair on the w3c admin folks to keep things open... they're busy w/ running 100s of meetings now

19:48:14 <DAllemang> Thanks for the info - saved me a trip downtown.

19:48:28 <bijan> Er...

19:48:30 <bijan> If you want to come

19:48:34 <bijan> Come on down :)

19:48:34 <DAllemang> Hi Bijan!

19:48:37 <bijan> Hiya

19:48:44 <DAllemang> Oh, good. you're one of the people I wanted to see

19:48:45 <bijan> Really, SWIG is different from other groups

19:48:51 <bijan> If you want to sit in, please come on

19:48:52 <DAllemang> Oh, good.

19:48:56 <DAllemang> what room are you in?

19:48:57 <bijan> just don't expect food ;)

19:49:08 <DAllemang> I can manage that myself, not to worry . . .

19:49:15 <DAllemang> after all, I live here.

19:49:19 <bijan> :)

19:49:38 <DAllemang> Is Guus Schreiber there? I am particularly interested in BP

19:49:46 <bijan> Yes

19:49:48 <bandri2> you could probably break in, the security's not so tight... (but no name badge, lunch etc...)

19:49:50 <DAllemang> Actually, I think it is really Alan Rector who I'd like to see

19:50:01 <bijan> The Best practices working gorup is meeting thrus and fri

19:50:10 <DAllemang> Oh! I thought it was tomorrow morning.

19:50:27 <DAllemang> I don't remember - are you involved in Best Practices, Bijan?

19:50:55 <bandri2> see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0157.html

19:51:18 <bijan> No, thank god

19:51:25 <DAllemang> Well!

19:51:25 <bijan> But I'll be here all week

19:51:37 <bijan> Alan isn't here now. I don't know if he'll be here thrus and fri

19:51:41 <DAllemang> I might want to come down on Thursday, then

19:51:46 <DAllemang> he isn't listed

19:52:12 <DAllemang> Is there an agenda for today and tomorrow? The page I was sent to was all "TBD"

19:53:17 <libby> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SwigAtTp2005

19:53:39 <DAllemang> Ah! That's much better. I must have been sent to an old page.

19:53:49 <bandri2> frank: engineering literature has tons of stuff on vvresioning

19:53:52 <libby> J:|SKOS Knowledge Organisation Systems and the Semantic Web

19:53:52 <dc_swig> Titled item J.

19:53:54 <Fabien> According to the registration, Alan is not coming. ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Feb/0157.html )

19:54:01 <libby> K:|Quick Guide to Publishing a Thesaurus on the Semantic Web

19:54:02 <dc_swig> Titled item K.

19:54:10 <libby> J1=""

19:54:10 <DAllemang> Thanks, Fabien. That's sort of what I figured from the attendance list for Thursday.

19:54:15 <libby> J1:=""

19:54:16 <dc_swig> Replaced comment J1.

19:54:26 <libby> oops

19:55:23 <libby> J1:""

19:55:24 <dc_swig> Deleted comment J1.

19:55:26 <libby> K1:""

19:55:28 <dc_swig> Deleted comment K1.

19:58:03 <DAllemang> Is http://esw.w3.org/topic/SwigAtTp2005 the most up-to-date page? It doesn't list anything for tomorrow afternoon.

19:58:23 <bijan> That' sound sup to date :)

19:58:27 <bijan> By danbri's standards

19:59:01 <DAllemang> I think I will come down for an hour or so for the rest of this afternoon.

19:59:03 <DAllemang> what room are you in?

19:59:26 <carine> michelangelo

19:59:58 <carine> maybe spelled mickaelangelo

20:00:24 <DAllemang> Okay - what's the dress code?

20:00:33 <DAllemang> (that one's not aimed at you, Bijan :) )

20:00:35 <bijan> I'm in shorts and a t-shirt

20:00:39 <DAllemang> Yeah, I know

20:00:44 <DAllemang> when have you ever been in anything else?

20:00:48 <DAllemang> Sandals, too, I bet.

20:01:53 <bijan> No, hiking like boots

20:02:00 <Fabien> J: Working Draft In Preparation by Alistair Miles as part of the activity of Semantic Web Best Practices and Deployment Working Group

20:02:00 <dc_swig> Added comment J1.

20:02:04 <bijan> I try to stay largely consistent

20:02:23 <Fabien> J:""

20:02:24 <dc_swig> Added comment J2.

20:02:26 <DAllemang> you succeed, to a great degree :)

20:02:29 <DAllemang> BTW, is Jim there?

20:02:31 <Fabien> J1:""

20:02:32 <dc_swig> Deleted comment J1.

20:02:35 <Fabien> J2:""

20:02:36 <dc_swig> Comment J2 not found.

20:03:03 <Fabien> K: Working Draft In Preparation by Alistair Miles as part of the activity of Semantic Web Best Practices and Deployment Working Group

20:03:03 <dc_swig> Added comment K1.

20:03:35 <Fabien> J1:""

20:03:36 <dc_swig> Deleted comment J1.

20:03:48 <DAllemang> hey - is there a semantic annotation bot running in this room? I just noticed that Miles' name will point to units of measure . . .

20:12:52 <DAllemang> okay - thanks for the pointers guys. See you soon.

20:15:44 <AndyS> Ivan - http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/

20:36:05 <bandri2> Amit Sheth (Semagix, Inc.) - Real World apps

20:36:22 <bandri2> ...eg. patriot act requires banks to identify 'who' they are dealing with

20:36:28 <bandri2> (slides to follow; won't reproduce it all here)

20:37:59 <bandri2> ...watch lists etc

20:38:15 <bandri2> ...some privacy implications w/ this scenario; but lots of scientific apps w/ same structure

20:38:56 <bandri2> also... forum based movie database for set-top boxes

20:39:09 <bandri2> ...1 ontology had 15million instances

20:39:23 <bandri2> ...most ontols we deal w/ has more than 1mil instances

20:40:04 <bandri2> ...law enforcement agency app - provision of an overarching intelligence sytem providing unified view of people + related info

20:40:22 <bandri2> ...need: to create entities across multiple disparate non-standardised databases

20:40:32 <bandri2> ...req to disambiguate 'dirty' data

20:40:40 <bandri2> ....need to extract insight from unstructured data

20:40:44 <bandri2> s/data/text/

20:41:10 <bandri2> (shows plain text query -> structured results)

20:43:07 * bijan notes that not all swiggers have: http://trust.mindswap.org/FilmTrust/

20:43:18 <bijan> Fear the plastic samauri sword!

20:44:16 <bandri2> (shows ...entity identification in html docs, via lexical analysis)

20:44:24 <Fabien>http://www.semagix.com/downloads/product_demo.htm

20:44:25 <dc_swig> L: http://www.semagix.com/downloads/product_demo.htm from Fabien

20:44:38 <Fabien> L: Semagix online demo

20:44:38 <dc_swig> Added comment L1.

20:45:18 <bandri2> (shows Al Quada example...)

20:45:39 * mortenf points bijan at http://www.wasab.dk/morten/2005/02/filmtrust-feed.xsl

20:46:19 <bandri2> summary: we can now create large, populated ontologies... updated 1/day to 1/week... varies per scenario... using this, can annotate semi, structured and unstructured... hence semantic integration

20:46:35 <bandri2> ...can now treat this metadata as a graph, as well as treat it w/ stats etc if wanted

20:46:51 <bandri2> ...egs include risk profiling, search, visualization

20:47:55 <bandri2> frank: "How do i recognise a sw business app if i meet one in the hotel sometime this week?"

20:48:13 <bandri2> ...prompted by discussion this morning, re comment about usage in business

20:48:21 <bandri2> ...q comes up a lot

20:48:56 <bandri2> ...was a short thread on this subject on RDF Interest list mid-dec 04 ("non Semantic Web uses of RDF") by which was meant Business Apps

20:49:15 * chaalsBOS2 waves to mortenf

20:49:20 <bandri2> ...also discussions at Mitre... dod etc apps

20:49:30 * mortenf waves west-wards

20:49:31 <bandri2> ...they don't see this being adopted in travelocity, amazon.com etc

20:49:36 * bijan looks

20:49:47 <bandri2> ...point is not that those are dumb questions; they are critically important Qs

20:49:53 <bandri2> ...and should prompt more activity on part of the IG

20:50:08 <bandri2> ...in trying to clarify what the SW is all about

20:50:31 <bandri2> ...W3C RDF Primer has examples

20:50:45 <bijan> ooo, *nice* mortenf!!!

20:50:45 <bandri2> eg. Dublin Core, but also Electric Power industry's use

20:50:59 <bandri2> ...interested in finding out why there is not more visibility

20:51:00 * mortenf smiles

20:51:18 <bandri2> ...we're not discussing real applications of rdf and owl enough

20:51:30 <bandri2> ...don't mean to criticise the prototyping work that is going on

20:51:31 * mortenf makes another mental note to point golbeck to some encoding problems

20:51:40 <bandri2> ...not enough visibility of existing work from industry

20:51:43 <Fabien> Non SemWeb uses of RDF http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2004Dec/0061.html

20:51:51 <aliman>http://isegserv.itd.rl.ac.uk/skos/pres/swig-talk-2005.txt

20:51:52 <dc_swig> M: http://isegserv.itd.rl.ac.uk/skos/pres/swig-talk-2005.txt from aliman

20:52:07 <bandri2> (bjian, re movies, see http://www.bbfc.co.uk/Customers/news/RSSIntro.html )

20:52:16 <aliman> M:|Notes of talk on SKOS

20:52:16 <dc_swig> Titled item M.

20:52:26 <bandri2> frank: there are apparently some issues about what counts as a 'business application' (of rdf/sw)

20:52:35 <aliman>http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core/guide/

20:52:36 <dc_swig> N: http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core/guide/ from aliman

20:52:43 <aliman> N:|SKOS Core Guide

20:52:43 <dc_swig> Titled item N.

20:52:50 <bandri2> ...eg. i have talked about Power Industry app, reuters health, gene ontology work, real estate data consortium, ...

20:53:01 <bandri2> ...people have said "that's not what I'm thinking about!"

20:53:05 <aliman> N: Editor's draft, should go to first public working draft very soon

20:53:06 <dc_swig> Added comment N1.

20:53:20 <bandri2> ......definition that "if it is used in business it is a business app"

20:53:26 <aliman>http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core/spec/

20:53:27 <dc_swig> O: http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core/spec/ from aliman

20:53:41 <aliman> O: Editor's draft, should go to first public working draft soon

20:53:41 <dc_swig> Added comment O1.

20:53:45 <bandri2> ...like Lyn's point this morning, plea for IG to make apps visible if you find work

20:53:55 <aliman> O:|SKOS Core Vocabulary Specification

20:53:56 <dc_swig> Titled item O.

20:53:56 <bandri2> ...we have online presentations etc., but greater visibilty needed

20:54:01 <bandri2> ...eg. emails to the IG list

20:54:18 <aliman>http://www.w3.org/2004/03/thes-tf/primer/

20:54:19 <dc_swig> P: http://www.w3.org/2004/03/thes-tf/primer/ from aliman

20:54:22 <bandri2> ...we need thoughts about instances of use, and about what counts as a business app

20:54:35 <aliman> P: Editor's draft, should go to first public working draft soon

20:54:35 <dc_swig> Added comment P1.

20:54:51 <aliman> P:|Quick Guide to Publishing a Thesaurus on the Semantic Web

20:54:52 <dc_swig> Titled item P.

20:55:00 <bandri2> ...end w/ a suggestion re data format: should be sometihng like "Foo, which is a company or industry sector, is applying BAR (a sw tech or language) to do BAZ..."

20:55:06 <bandri2> ...ie. getting some kind of work done

20:55:21 <aliman> All coments on N O & P most welcome :)

20:55:51 <bandri2> ...an eg of a criterion: filmtrust will be a business app when joan rivers quotes the ratings

20:56:40 * bandri2 can't scribe for a bit (rsi)

20:56:46 * bandri2 listens

20:56:51 <bandri2> Vipul...

20:57:55 <Fabien> L1:""

20:57:56 <dc_swig> Deleted comment L1.

20:58:26 <Fabien> L:|Semagix online demo

20:58:27 <dc_swig> Titled item L.

21:06:10 <bandri2>http://www2.law.uu.nl/english/sim/library/ecchrd/Pictures%2027th%20meeting/pictures.html

21:06:10 <dc_swig> Q: http://www2.law.uu.nl/english/sim/library/ecchrd/Pictures%2027th%20meeting/pictures.html from bandri2

21:06:29 <bandri2> Q:|CharlesMcN at ECCHRD meeting

21:06:29 <dc_swig> Titled item Q.

21:08:19 <bandri2> Q:+[http://www2.law.uu.nl/english/sim/library/ecchrd/Pictures%2027th%20meeting/Training-7.JPG]

21:08:20 <dc_swig> Added comment Q1.

21:09:17 <bandri2> Q:see also [http://www2.law.uu.nl/english/sim/library/ecchrd/news.html European Coordination Committee on Human Rights Documentation] news pages...

21:09:17 <dc_swig> Added comment Q2.

21:12:52 <bandri2> jjc, you're up next... re rdf/a

21:15:18 <bijan> (People joining filmtrust...don't forget to link in! (later linking is fine :))

21:15:24 <aliman>http://www.formsplayer.com/notes/rdf-a.html

21:15:24 <dc_swig> R: http://www.formsplayer.com/notes/rdf-a.html from aliman

21:15:36 <aliman> R:|RDF/A Syntax

21:15:37 <dc_swig> Titled item R.

21:16:09 <aliman> R: A collection of attributes for layering RDF on XML languages

21:16:09 <dc_swig> Added comment R1.

21:16:26 <bandri2> R:(Not actually a W3C Note; it just looks like one... I think we need a style sheet for these increasingly ubiquitous "editors drafts"...)

21:16:27 <dc_swig> Added comment R2.

21:18:37 <Fabien> R: Editors are Mark Birbeck and Steven Pemberton

21:18:37 <dc_swig> Added comment R3.

21:19:59 <bandri2> bandri2 is now known as danbri

21:24:57 <danbri> Evan Wallace (NIST)

21:25:45 * mortenf notes that linking in to filmtrust is hard - all the pages are restricted...

21:27:03 <bijan> Yeah

21:27:11 <bijan> That's part of the IRB restrictions

21:27:16 <bijan> We could lift some

21:27:21 <bijan> Probably

21:27:25 <mortenf> ah, didn't realise that was a problem

21:27:30 <bijan> But we have to be careful from an ethical point of view

21:27:33 <mortenf> sure

21:27:56 <bijan> But I suspect that anything that is public to other users can be public period

21:28:05 <bijan> But we'll prolly have to check with the board

21:29:44 <danbri> evan: ODM RFP prompted by Guus' UML mapping strawman

21:29:55 <danbri> ...wanted a normative mapping to owl

21:30:06 <danbri> "life isn't as simple as it seemed!"

21:32:36 <danbri> MOF... meta object facility, interface to repository... how you store uml models

21:32:43 <danbri> ...metameta language for writing languages like uml

21:33:33 <Fabien>http://www.omg.org/docs/ad/05-01-01.pdf

21:33:33 <dc_swig> S: http://www.omg.org/docs/ad/05-01-01.pdf from Fabien

21:34:24 <Fabien> S:|Revised submission for the OMG Ontology Definition Metamodel (Jan. 2005)

21:34:24 <dc_swig> Titled item S.

21:35:11 <danbri> ...submitters wanted to support Common Logic, iso work on a logic formalism

21:35:15 <danbri> .g "Common logic"

21:35:23 <phenny> "Common logic": http://philebus.tamu.edu/cl/

21:42:10 <danbri> plan: final submission within OMG for June

21:42:56 <chaalsBOS2> .t GMT

21:42:58 <phenny> Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:42:56 GMT

21:43:10 <erim>http://www-db.stanford.edu/~melnik/rdf/uml/

21:43:10 <dc_swig> T: http://www-db.stanford.edu/~melnik/rdf/uml/ from erim

21:43:22 <erim> T:|Representing UML in RDF

21:43:23 <dc_swig> Titled item T.

21:43:44 <erim> T: some early previous work on UML in RDF from Sergey Melnik

21:43:44 <dc_swig> Added comment T1.

21:45:37 <danbri> SIMILE guys take the stage...

21:46:02 * chaalsBOS2 says Ooooh! Aaaaah! in advance

21:47:02 * aliman thinks chaals is a little premature ;)

21:47:55 <Fabien>http://simile.mit.edu/

21:47:56 <dc_swig> U: http://simile.mit.edu/ from Fabien

21:48:19 <Fabien> U:|Semantic Interoperability of Metadata and Information in unLike Environments

21:48:19 <dc_swig> Titled item U.

21:52:26 <Fabien> U: SIMILE seeks to enhance inter-operability among digital assets, schemata/vocabularies/ontologies, metadata, and services

21:52:27 <dc_swig> Added comment U1.

21:54:39 <Fabien> U:Welkin graph-based RDF visualizer http://simile.mit.edu/welkin/index.html

21:54:39 <dc_swig> Added comment U2.

21:55:22 * chaalsBOS2 missed what he would do

21:55:43 <danbri> jjc, see related work from http://www.dcc.uchile.cl/~jhayes/texts

21:56:02 <danbri> ryan on longwell...

21:57:47 <Fabien> U: Longwell, a suite of web-based RDF browsers http://simile.mit.edu/longwell/index.html

21:57:47 <dc_swig> Added comment U3.

22:00:08 <Fabien> U:Piggy-Bank, a Firefox extension to let users collect and browse "semantic data" from ordinary web pages http://simile.mit.edu/piggy-bank/index.html

22:00:09 <dc_swig> Added comment U4.

22:00:25 * chaalsBOS2 thinks it must be getting late because it is hard to hear at the back of the room

22:00:33 <crschmidt> (also makes it very difficult to type a \ in a textbox)

22:01:54 <danbri> we're wrapping up after this

22:02:07 * danbri is now known as danbri-jetlag

22:11:22 <Fabien> Link with RDF Mozilla effort? http://www.mozilla.org/rdf/doc/

22:14:41 <libby> ---finising for the day

22:14:52 <libby> back tomorrow at 9am

22:16:45 <crschmidt> see ya'all

22:16:57 <libby> bye chris!

22:17:28 <sh1mmer> ciao

23:00:39 <tav> tav is now known as tav|offline

23:49:16 <Mkflow> hi to all

23:52:49 <Mkflow> is there anyone? i have a trouble with latex, i've installed it 1 hour ago,

23:53:54 <Mkflow> i have a .tex, if i launch latex for create pdf with \documentstyle[]{report}

23:54:10 <KjetilK> \documentstyle is _ancient_

23:54:23 <Mkflow> it goes well. with \documentstyle[a4paper]{article} latex tells me that a4paper.sty is not present

23:54:23 <KjetilK> you probably want \documentclass

23:54:47 <KjetilK> oh, ok

23:54:55 <KjetilK> which OS ?

23:55:34 * JibberJim hasn't done any latex in years... memories...

23:56:04 * KjetilK likes LaTeX for a lot of stuff, but "the right tool for the job"

23:56:14 <Mkflow> well, the problem was that

23:56:41 <Mkflow> my attention fault at this hour, ok, i thank you

23:56:48 <KjetilK> hehe, np

23:57:07 <KjetilK> \documentclass was introduced in LaTeX2e

23:57:27 <KjetilK> but there are still a lot of LaTeX 2.09 installations around

23:57:41 <KjetilK> and a lot of code, pre-1990 stuff.... :-)