Semantic Web Interest Group IRC Chat Logs for 2005-05-30

11:44:34 <libby> A:and the [http://www.semanticscripting.org/SFSW2005/papers/Celma-Music_Recommendations.pdf|paper] for [http://www.semanticscripting.org/SFSW2005/|semweb scripting workshop at ESWC]

11:44:35 <dc_swig> Added comment A1.

11:45:26 <libby> A:|SIMAC - semantic interaction with music audio contents

11:45:26 <dc_swig> Titled item A.

11:46:21 <CaptSolo> A:project title "Semantic Interaction with Music Audio Contents"

11:46:21 <dc_swig> Added comment A2.

11:47:14 <CaptSolo> A2:

11:47:15 <dc_swig> (CaptSolo) project title "Semantic Interaction with Music Audio Contents"

11:48:21 <CaptSolo> A2:motto - "foafing-the-music"

11:48:21 <dc_swig> Replaced comment A2.

11:49:46 <CaptSolo> Implementation

11:49:46 <CaptSolo> - PHP

11:49:46 <CaptSolo> - FOAF: PHP Pear class

11:49:46 <CaptSolo> - RSS: based on Magpie RSS library

11:49:47 <CaptSolo> - RSS newsfeeds: connection to PubSub

11:54:39 <CaptSolo> presenters of "HyperJournal, PHP scripting and Semantic Web technologies for the Open Access" have ran away

11:55:17 <CaptSolo> next presenter - Hannes Gassert on "From Graph to GUI: Displaying RDF Data from the Web with Arago"

11:55:33 <CaptSolo> libby ran away as well :)

11:56:00 <CaptSolo> (considering she is chairing this session)

11:56:04 * nsh wonders

11:57:03 <CaptSolo> Hannes introduces himself

11:57:29 <nsh> I used to speak this wonderful language...

11:57:44 <nsh> called "sense". it'd be nice to be reminded of it from time to time :-)

11:58:42 <CaptSolo> references to 6 knowledge types [from Holsapple & Whinston 1987] - interestiing

11:58:55 <CaptSolo> will focus on presentation knowledge

12:00:21 <CaptSolo> Fresnel, an RDF display ontology

12:01:56 <libby> "css for the semweb"

12:02:34 <libby> nice

12:03:04 <CaptSolo> Fresnel concepts:

12:03:05 <CaptSolo> Ontology-centric: talk of individuals having properties

12:03:05 <CaptSolo> Lenses: what to display

12:03:09 <CaptSolo> Styles: how to display

12:03:15 <CaptSolo> giving an example

12:03:41 <CaptSolo> (Fresnel is by MIT/SIMILE, Chris Bizer, Emmanuel Pietriga)

12:04:19 <CaptSolo> points to Chris in the audience - "questions go to him best" ;)

12:09:19 <CaptSolo> describing his implementation now

12:09:21 <CaptSolo> Arago: A Fresnel implementation

12:09:52 <CaptSolo> 1st predecessor: YARS+CWM+PHP+XSLT+CSS (see demo session)

12:09:52 <CaptSolo> 2nd predecessor: RDF+CSS (using extension to CSS2 that makes it namespace aware)

12:10:13 <CaptSolo> -

12:10:14 <CaptSolo> Current prototype: Fesnel RAP+PHP5 (building on RAP)

12:10:14 <CaptSolo> Status: 1st prototype, being of refactored for extension and being open-sourced

12:25:46 <libby> anyone know the license for the swed project?

12:29:47 <libby>http://powl.sourceforge.net/

12:29:48 <dc_swig> B: http://powl.sourceforge.net/ from libby

12:30:03 <libby> B:|pOWL - Semantic Web Development Plattform

12:30:03 <dc_swig> Titled item B.

12:30:49 <libby> B:[http://www.semanticscripting.org/SFSW2005/papers/Auer-Powl.pdf|paper by Sören Auer (pdf)]

12:30:49 <dc_swig> Added comment B1.

12:32:34 <libby>http://www.semanticscripting.org/SFSW2005/papers/Gassert-Arago.pdf

12:32:34 <dc_swig> C: http://www.semanticscripting.org/SFSW2005/papers/Gassert-Arago.pdf from libby

12:32:45 <libby> bengee!

12:32:51 <libby> C:|From Graph to GUI: Displaying RDF Data from the Web with Arago (pdf)

12:32:52 <dc_swig> Titled item C.

12:33:05 * bengee waves from rainy germany...

12:33:40 <CaptSolo> bengee :)

12:33:52 <CaptSolo> talks on Powl architecture

12:33:55 <libby> A:[http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/swig/2005-05-30.html#T11-49-46|some brief notes]

12:33:56 <dc_swig> Added comment A3.

12:33:57 <CaptSolo> mentions triple-caching

12:34:26 <libby> C:[http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/swig/2005-05-30.html#T11-57-03|some brief notes]

12:34:27 <dc_swig> Added comment C1.

12:34:38 <bengtf__> bengtf__ is now known as bengtf

12:36:13 <bengee> scribing++

12:36:44 <CaptSolo> A:and [http://www.semanticaudio.org/foafin-the-music|a demo]

12:36:45 <dc_swig> Added comment A4.

12:36:46 <libby> we shoudl ahve done it this morning

12:37:02 <bengee> do they have the same gsm9600 super-slow wlan access as last year?

12:37:25 <bengee> (or whatever that was..)

12:37:32 <libby> yeah :/

12:37:50 <libby> I'd forgotten how bad it is

12:37:53 <libby>http://www.semanticscripting.org/SFSW2005/

12:37:54 <dc_swig> D: http://www.semanticscripting.org/SFSW2005/ from libby

12:38:17 <libby> D:|Semantic Scripting Workshop at ESWC 2005

12:38:17 <dc_swig> Titled item D.

12:38:36 <libby> D:been chumped before but happening right now... :)

12:38:37 <dc_swig> Added comment D1.

12:39:07 <CaptSolo> judging from the fact that only two of us are scribing, there are not many SWIG people here

12:39:17 <libby> ahrath is here

12:39:36 * libby about to lose power

12:39:45 * bengee thought mortenf planned to attend eswc this year..

12:39:57 <CaptSolo> 'd be interesting to know what's going on in other workshop and the industry forum (though people say industry forum is boring)

12:40:01 <libby> (plug gets accidentally kicked out form the projector ;)

12:40:15 <bengee> libby, use the force

12:40:36 * libby is powerless

12:40:45 * bengee saw epIII yesterday, sorry, still a bit flashed ;)

12:40:54 <libby> heh

12:41:06 * libby wants a darth tater

12:41:21 <CaptSolo> Components:

12:41:21 <CaptSolo> Powl store - SQL compatible relational database backend

12:41:21 <CaptSolo> RDFAPI, RDFSAPI, OWLAPI

12:41:21 <CaptSolo> Powl API

12:41:25 <CaptSolo> UI

12:42:54 <libby> B:[http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/swig/2005-05-30.html#T12-41-21|some brief notes]

12:42:55 <dc_swig> Added comment B2.

12:43:10 <libby> captsolo is a scribing hero!

12:43:20 <CaptSolo> libby: how much batter power left? shall i check the plug to see if we can empower you?

12:43:20 <dajobe> libby: you can do: "logger, chump B:"

12:43:35 <libby> 2%

12:43:43 <libby> it's not crucial

12:43:48 <libby> break in 15 mins

12:44:03 * bengee can't find "tater" in his dict, but assumes it's something most useful, although using the dark side of the force..

12:44:04 <libby> cheers dave

12:44:22 <libby> it's a mr potato head with a darth vader outfit

12:44:50 <bengee> heh, cool. ok ;)

12:44:58 * bengee wants that now, too

12:45:10 <libby> heh

12:46:41 <CaptSolo> ehe ;)

12:46:48 <CaptSolo> hehe i mean

12:47:19 <CaptSolo> -

12:47:22 <CaptSolo> Entailment is calculated when needed and cached for reuse

12:47:22 <CaptSolo> - entailed triples not stored in RDF store

12:47:37 <CaptSolo> Versioning / evolution:

12:47:37 <CaptSolo> - editing actions are decomposed into smaller pieces [and finally into addition and deletion of RDF triples]

12:47:47 <CaptSolo> System ontology:

12:47:47 <CaptSolo> - stores info on models, users, authorisations, widgets, customisations, plugins...

12:48:10 <CaptSolo> -

12:48:48 <CaptSolo> cool things - has widgets and plugins

12:49:19 <CaptSolo> bengee: pitty you could not come

12:49:29 <CaptSolo> shows the UI now

12:49:39 <libby> looks cool :)

12:50:10 <bengee> yeah, sorry for that. should have been faster with the semweb.org portal...

12:50:10 <CaptSolo> inspired by protege

12:50:49 * CaptSolo remembers the cool Appmosphere UI bengee made

12:51:54 <bengee> hey thx ;)

12:53:16 * CaptSolo will fall asleep soon

12:53:16 <CaptSolo> :)

12:55:34 <CaptSolo> pOWL tracks changes to the RDF base - triple deletions/additions/changes

12:56:14 <CaptSolo> Will now show a use case built on pOWL - OntoWiki

12:56:14 <CaptSolo> - a prototype, not yet released (1st public demo now)

12:57:28 * shellac catches up

12:57:30 <shellac> <libby>anyone know the license for the swed project?

12:57:50 <shellac> almost certainly jena licence (apache)

12:58:33 <CaptSolo> libby's laptop ran out of juice (will be online in a while i guess)

12:59:57 <CaptSolo> demos information about a person (Andreas Oberweis) in a wiki

13:00:30 <CaptSolo> - inline editing of property values

13:01:38 <CaptSolo> properties of a person on main (left hand side) part of the window

13:02:36 <CaptSolo> right hand side:

13:02:49 <CaptSolo> "toolboxes" with different actions/info

13:04:16 <CaptSolo> -

13:04:17 <CaptSolo> - every triple may have comments (implemented via reification)

13:04:38 <CaptSolo> -end of this part-

13:04:56 <bengee> CaptSolo++

13:21:58 <chimezie> join #swhack

13:36:55 * bengtf waves to chaals

13:56:51 <CaptSolo> next: Use Case: Linked Church

13:57:24 <libby> interesting - it's like the swed thingy

13:57:32 <libby> sort of

13:57:42 <CaptSolo> did not see whole presentation so can't comment much

13:58:16 <CaptSolo> seems to have created [distributed?] church website based on RDF

13:58:24 <CaptSolo> -

13:58:28 <libby> I think they harvest it

13:59:06 <libby> use foaf/dc/latlong

13:59:24 <libby> nice geo-type choice windows and aerial photos

14:00:55 <libby>http://www.vernetzte-kirche.de/

14:00:56 <dc_swig> E: http://www.vernetzte-kirche.de/ from libby

14:01:28 <libby> E:|vernetzte-kirche - barvarian church web site using the semantic web (based on powl)

14:01:29 <dc_swig> Titled item E.

14:01:49 <libby> logger, chump E

14:01:49 <libby> E:See [http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/swig/2005-05-30#T14-01-49|discussion]

14:01:50 <dc_swig> Added comment E1.

14:02:26 <libby> E:uses foaf/dc/geo/skos!

14:02:27 <dc_swig> Added comment E2.

14:08:06 <CaptSolo> showing a geographic map with resources mapped on it

14:08:06 <CaptSolo> - says it is expensive to get a detailed aerial photo

14:08:12 <CaptSolo> ---> this related to Zool's and Schuyler's geo-mapping work and the observation that in Europe there is a lack of publically available geo info

14:08:28 <CaptSolo> -

14:08:30 <CaptSolo> Major challenge: concepts

14:08:30 <CaptSolo> - e.g., to take a book and apply metadata to the book using concepts

14:08:30 <CaptSolo> - try to implement using SKOS concept schema

14:08:40 <CaptSolo> - users can use a webservice with concepts (decouples usage of concepts from the concrete technology)

14:09:45 <CaptSolo> -

14:10:10 <CaptSolo> interesting presentation but i have a feeling i did not get a full view on what and how they are doing

14:11:51 <libby> interestign stuff. I need to point him at the swed stuff

14:12:31 <CaptSolo> "Use Case: A Minimal Effort Distributed Library for KMi"

14:13:03 <CaptSolo> by

14:13:03 <CaptSolo> 11. Tom Heath (Open University, KMi)

14:14:34 <libby> BLURB: Semweb scripting usecase: Use Case: A Minimal Effort Distributed Library for KMi

14:14:35 <dc_swig> F: Semweb scripting usecase: Use Case: A Minimal Effort Distributed Library for KMi from libby

14:14:38 <CaptSolo> Q: how to find out who has a particular book on his bookshelf at KMi?

14:14:38 <dc_swig> Label Q not found.

14:14:52 <libby> logger, chump F:

14:14:52 <libby> F:See [http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/swig/2005-05-30#T14-14-52|discussion]

14:14:53 <dc_swig> Added comment F1.

14:15:32 <libby> F:writeup to follow on [http://www.semanticscripting.org/SFSW2005/|semweb scripting workshop site]

14:15:33 <dc_swig> Added comment F2.

14:15:43 <libby> cool! it uses barcode scanner

14:15:50 <libby> danbri? :)

14:17:03 <libby> - scanned into textfiles, uploaded to user space on kmi website, php script that reads the textfile and uses isbn.org.org to resolve isbns (uses data cached from z39.50 queries of university libraries)

14:17:18 <libby> isbn.org.uk sorry

14:17:42 <CaptSolo> hehe - barcode scanners are cool

14:18:10 <libby> - aggregates it all, resuilts to a webpage

14:18:19 <libby>http://isbn.org.uk/

14:18:20 <dc_swig> G: http://isbn.org.uk/ from libby

14:18:39 <libby> G:|isbnsearch

14:18:40 <dc_swig> Titled item G.

14:18:55 <libby> G:"Purpose: To provide a open-source interface for ISBN retrieval using free software"

14:18:57 <dc_swig> Added comment G1.

14:19:19 <libby> heh, and kmi they ahve a jabber bot for the data too!

14:22:47 <CaptSolo>http://kmi.open.ac.uk/people/tom/bookshelf.php?fullname=Tom%20Heath&homepage=/people/tom/&txtfile=/people/tom/bookshelf.txt

14:22:48 <dc_swig> H: http://kmi.open.ac.uk/people/tom/bookshelf.php?fullname=Tom%20Heath&homepage=/people/tom/&txtfile=/people/tom/bookshelf.txt from CaptSolo

14:23:07 <CaptSolo> H:|Books on Tom Heath's KMi Bookshelf

14:23:07 <dc_swig> Titled item H.

14:23:47 <libby> H:try searching for bookshelf learning java on [http://kmi.open.ac.uk|KMI website]

14:23:47 <dc_swig> Added comment H1.

14:24:11 <CaptSolo> H:a demo of Distributed KMi Library Usa Case (see below)

14:24:12 <dc_swig> Added comment H2.

14:26:14 <CaptSolo>http://kmi.open.ac.uk/people/tom/places.php?txtfile=/people/tom/places.txt

14:26:14 <dc_swig> I: http://kmi.open.ac.uk/people/tom/places.php?txtfile=/people/tom/places.txt from CaptSolo

14:26:52 <libby> G:the service queries 600 libraries but still doesn't get everything

14:26:52 <dc_swig> Added comment G2.

14:29:06 <CaptSolo> libby: can you label this?

14:30:03 <libby> I:|Places somehow to do with Tom

14:30:03 <libby> :)

14:30:04 <dc_swig> Titled item I.

14:31:36 <CaptSolo> :)

14:33:34 <CaptSolo> I:resolves place names to enhance them with more info - Zool is somehow involved :)

14:33:35 <dc_swig> Added comment I1.

14:33:46 <CaptSolo> - discussion now -

14:34:15 <libby> BLURB: Discussion - are scripting langauges on the semweb just for prototyping?

14:34:15 <dc_swig> J: Discussion - are scripting langauges on the semweb just for prototyping? from libby

14:35:01 <libby> J:comment - javascript client and say, java backend works well, whereas all scriting or java client and java backend work less well

14:35:02 <dc_swig> Added comment J1.

14:38:05 <libby> J:comment - scripting languages are incredibly useful for simple problems - the first scripting languages boom - anables people to concentrate on the business logic

14:38:06 <dc_swig> Added comment J2.

14:43:18 <CaptSolo> libby mentions RDF/A and GRDDL as simpler ways to use metadata

14:43:34 <libby> J:comment - distributed data problems - named graphs are required; also difficult to know how to put RDF in html (or next to it, or linked to it etc)

14:43:34 <dc_swig> Added comment J3.

14:43:47 <libby> J:SWBP take note ;)

14:43:47 <dc_swig> Added comment J4.

14:44:07 <CaptSolo> libby+++

14:52:24 <libby> J:good rdf librariy for rdf and perl?

14:52:25 <dc_swig> Added comment J5.

14:53:01 <CaptSolo> what is zool using?

14:53:38 <CaptSolo> did he also ask for library for prolog?

14:54:13 <libby> J:answer (from Chris' talk this morning): pure perl toolkits seem to be outdated, but Redland and RDFStore are C libraries with perl bindings

14:54:14 <dc_swig> Added comment J6.

14:55:14 <libby> J:prolog: [http://www.swi-prolog.org/|SWIprolog] is pretty good I think

14:55:14 <dc_swig> Added comment J7.

15:00:05 <libby> ---end of workshop

15:02:47 * bengtf wonders where the workshop is ;)

16:57:08 <balbinus_> balbinus_ is now known as balbinus

19:22:43 <HenkPoley> Hi, can I ask a question about Portege here?

19:23:33 <sbp> HenkPoley: absolutely

19:23:43 <sbp> don't worry if no one's around to answer it just yet though

19:23:51 <sbp> some people see it only much later in their backscroll

19:24:17 <HenkPoley> Thank you, I'm getting an error when importing an OWL dataset (ontology + lots of data)

19:24:48 <HenkPoley> It says by 'hasstartime' and 'hasendtime' and 'hastitle' that it is an illegal value

19:25:16 <HenkPoley> I'm sorry that it's so vague :-P

19:25:45 <sbp> do you have the exact error message that it gives?

19:26:05 <sbp> feel free to paste it in if it's not too many lines (threeish or under)

19:26:22 <sbp> if not, you can use a pastebin. e.g. http://paste.lisp.org/new/

19:29:07 <HenkPoley> I'm sorry.. the ontology not on this machine so I can't reproduce it here :-/

19:30:06 <sbp> ah

19:30:23 <sbp> not sure then, unless some protogé folk magically appear

19:32:47 * HenkPoley summons the powers of.. never mind

19:39:17 <sbp> heh

19:50:22 * DanC_ tries to make use of some video files using http://pymedia.org/

19:50:44 <DanC_> audio/libavcodec/faad.c:111: error: too many arguments to function

19:50:46 <DanC_> :(

19:52:01 <DanC_> try again without libfaad2-dev ...

19:55:38 <DanC_> got past faad problem, built it, installed it...

19:55:39 <DanC_> but now

19:55:41 <DanC_> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pymedia/audio/acodec.so: undefined symbol: mpeg4aac_decoder

19:59:49 <DanC_> maybe the faad config change got half done...

19:59:58 <DanC_> python setup.py clean <- doesn't do much

20:00:06 <DanC_> removing the whole build dir and trying again...

20:03:23 <DanC_> ugh.. now I get SEGV

20:08:03 <DanC_> removing the whole thing, unpacking the .tar file again, trying one more time...

20:13:05 <DanC_> >>> import time, wave, pymedia.audio.sound as sound

20:13:05 <DanC_> Segmentation fault

20:13:50 <dajobe> hey Danc. that sounds rather annoying

20:14:44 <DanC_> i suspect I have the wrong version of some libraries or something

20:14:53 <dajobe> in my experience that kind of thing is different shared objects compiled against differnet versions of the same library

20:20:33 <DanC_> faad problem is documented... "Anything else may be related to either gcc version( see next post about gcc-3.4.* ). Or faad. Right now PyMedia do not support FAAD2. So you have to uninstall it first." -- http://indashpc.org/vbullettin/viewtopic.php?t=31

20:28:45 * DanC_ considers checking code out from cvs... http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=86491

20:30:07 <DanC_> code I grabbed is from 2004-10-27

20:31:46 <DanC_> grabbed code from cvs...

20:31:48 <DanC_> gcc: audio/libavformat/ogg.c: No such file or directory

20:32:00 <DanC_> I see oggvorbis.c

20:42:18 <DanC_> hmm... some restructuring going on...

20:42:20 <DanC_> raw.c (in the Attic) 1.3 11 days jbors Restructuring of muxer

20:56:10 <DanC_> tried to fix setup.py myself...

20:56:21 <DanC_> now I'm getting wierd link errors...

20:56:22 <DanC_> g++ (GCC) 3.3.6 (Debian 1:3.3.6-4)

20:56:48 <DanC_> video/libavformat/utils.c:79: multiple definition of `guess_format'

20:56:48 <DanC_> build/temp.linux-i686-2.3/video/libavformat/utils.o(.text+0x0):video/libavformat/utils.c:79: first defined here

20:57:06 <DanC_> ah... maybe I've got the same .c in two places in setup.py ...

20:58:49 <dajobe> I gave up on python's distutils for redland because of similar and even more annoying link problems.

20:59:44 <chimezie> dc:views

21:04:28 <DanC_> ooh... build seems to have worked...

21:05:02 * chimezie shakes dc_swig violently

21:05:28 <DanC_> File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pymedia/__init__.py", line 24, in ?

21:05:28 <DanC_> import muxer, audio, video, removable

21:05:28 <DanC_> ImportError: No module named muxer

21:07:11 <dajobe> no s; dc:view

21:07:22 <chimezie> dc:view

21:07:37 <dajobe> oops, I meant dc_swig:view

21:07:46 <chimezie> dc_swig:view

21:07:47 <dc_swig> F: Semweb scripting usecase: Use Case: A Minimal Effort Distributed Library for KMi (blurb)

21:07:48 <dc_swig> G: isbnsearch (http://isbn.org.uk/)

21:07:49 <dc_swig> H: Books on Tom Heath's KMi Bookshelf (http://kmi.open.ac.uk/people/tom/bookshelf.php?fullname=Tom%20Heath&homepage=/people/tom/&txtfile=/people/tom/bookshelf.txt)

21:07:50 <chimezie> there we go

21:07:50 <dc_swig> I: Places somehow to do with Tom (http://kmi.open.ac.uk/people/tom/places.php?txtfile=/people/tom/places.txt)

21:07:51 <dc_swig> J: Discussion - are scripting langauges on the semweb just for prototyping? (blurb)

21:08:36 <DanC_> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pymedia/audio/acodec.so: undefined symbol: flac_decoder

21:09:16 <DanC_> >>> snd.play( s ) <- noisy, but seems to sorta work

21:20:11 <DanC_> logger, pointer?

21:20:11 <DanC_> See http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/chatlogs/swig/2005-05-30#T21-20-11

21:28:58 * DanC_ sent a problem report re pymedia http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2005May/0026.html

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