W3C Web Ontology Working Group IRC Chat Logs for 2002-10-31

16:01:07 Topic now WebOnt 24 Oct. chair: Guus; scribe: Leo O.

16:01:07 Users on #webont: logger las

16:28:19 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: webont 31 Oct. chair: Hendler; scribe: [I forget]

16:28:29 * RRSAgent is logging

16:48:30 <libby> libby is now known as I_forget

16:52:53 <I_forget> I_forget is now known as libby

16:53:20 * libby is the scribe, but has to go 15 minutes before we usually end

16:54:18 <DanC> agenda + 31Oct http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0271.html

16:54:19 * Zakim notes agendum 1 added

16:54:28 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: webont 31 Oct. chair: Hendler; scribe: LibbyM

16:54:36 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: webont 31 Oct. chair: JimH; scribe: LibbyM

16:57:23 <DanC> jim, did you see my comments on last week's agenda? I think it's best to review actions that are related to issues under discussion of those issues.

16:57:40 <DanC> likewise document status stuff.

16:58:57 <jhendler> OK, I'll do it that way best I can - will organize that way in the future

17:01:47 * jhendler gets university line busy signal - usually clears in a minute or two - will phone in soon as I can

17:01:58 <DanC> Zakim, this is WEBO

17:01:59 <Zakim> ok, DanC

17:02:05 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean

17:02:16 <Zakim> +DanC

17:02:25 <Zakim> +??P39

17:02:33 <jjc> Zakim, who's on the phone?

17:02:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P15, Tim_Finin, ??P17, ??P35, Mike_Dean, DanC, ??P39

17:02:40 <libby> I'm here

17:02:43 <Zakim> +??P43

17:02:44 <Zakim> +M_Smith

17:02:52 <Zakim> +??P37

17:02:56 <Zakim> +??P40

17:03:08 <Zakim> +??P44

17:03:11 <jhendler> zakim, ??p49 is hendler

17:03:12 <Zakim> sorry, jhendler, I do not recognize a party named '??p49'

17:03:19 <jhendler> zakim, ??p40 is hendler

17:03:20 <Zakim> +Hendler; got it

17:03:20 <Zakim> +??P45

17:03:23 <Zakim> +Massimo

17:03:34 <DanC> libby, can you bring up this on your screen? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2002Oct/0077.html

17:03:48 <JosD> Zakim, ??P45 is JosD

17:03:49 <Zakim> +JosD; got it

17:04:13 <Zakim> +Leo

17:05:10 <pfps> zakim, ??P44 is pfps

17:05:11 <Zakim> +Pfps; got it

17:05:44 <Zakim> +Marwan_Sabbouh

17:06:21 <Zakim> +??P12

17:06:25 <DanC> "INRIA" no

17:06:32 <DanC> "Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA)" no

17:06:57 <pfps> zakim, ??P12 is Deborah_McGuinness

17:06:58 <Zakim> +Deborah_McGuinness; got it

17:06:59 <libby> ÿNetwork Inference no

17:07:06 <libby> ÿIvis Group, Limited no

17:07:10 <libby> stilo no

17:07:15 <libby> HP yes

17:07:15 <Massimo> here

17:07:18 <libby> W3C yes

17:07:42 <jjc> HP - Carroll

17:07:49 <libby> - connolly and massimo both here

17:07:58 <libby> ÿFujitsu Limited - regrets from jonathan

17:08:06 <libby> ÿAgfa-Gevaert N. V yes

17:08:14 <libby> ÿUniversity of Southampton no

17:08:23 <jjc> Decker has left STanford

17:08:27 <DanC> DebM: "Decker" not representing Stanford any longer.

17:08:31 <libby> ÿStanford here but not representing stanfoird

17:08:41 <libby> ÿPhilips Electronics N.V yes

17:08:53 <libby> ÿIbrow - no

17:08:55 <DeborahMc> McGuinness is here for Stanford

17:09:12 <libby> (sorry, scribe confused)

17:09:31 <libby> ÿMaryland Information and Network Dynamics Lab at the University - hender, not finin

17:09:39 <libby> ÿUnicorn Solutions Inc yes

17:09:53 <libby> ÿSun Microsystems, Inc no

17:10:18 <libby> ÿIBM Corporation hori - yes

17:10:31 <libby> ÿIvis Group Limited yes

17:10:39 <libby> ÿIvis Group Limited klien

17:10:41 <DanC> nokia, no

17:10:50 <libby> ÿPhilips Electronic N.V. no

17:10:51 <DanC> philips, no

17:11:03 <libby> ÿForschungszentrum Informatik (FZI)" - no

17:11:09 <libby> bristol - yes

17:11:19 <libby> ÿMITRE" both yes

17:11:29 <libby> ÿEDF (Electricite De France) regrets?

17:11:37 <libby> Lÿucent Technologies yes

17:11:47 <libby> ÿInteroperability Technology Associati - exclused

17:12:02 <libby> ÿGerman Research Center for Artificial Intelligence ....?

17:12:10 <libby> ÿGerman Research Center for Artificial Intelligence - yes

17:12:18 <libby> EDS yes

17:12:25 <DanC> NIST Wallace

17:12:26 <libby> intel 0- ??

17:12:31 <Zakim> + +31.20.444.aaaa

17:12:48 <libby> motorola - np

17:12:55 <jhendler> Dean/Heflin

17:12:58 <DanC> Heflin, Dean.

17:13:00 <libby> helfin and dean

17:13:03 <libby> sorry

17:13:12 <jhendler> frank vh joins

17:13:26 <Zakim> +Sharon

17:13:38 <DanC> that's Welty, I think.

17:13:54 <libby> guus is knot on danc's list

17:14:24 <libby> ? 4.3 is this issue closed or not? bristol - postponed; but last weeks' telecon minutes stay still open

17:14:48 <libby> danc: reopen it

17:15:00 <libby> issue doc is being updated

17:15:03 <Zakim> +??P22

17:15:12 <libby> DanC seconds the reopening

17:15:15 <DanC> Zakim, ??P22 is JonB

17:15:16 <libby> of 4.3

17:15:16 <Zakim> +JonB; got it

17:15:20 <jhendler> Borden joins, Welty joins

17:15:31 <DanC> no, I second propsal to approve minutes, as ammended to show the issue is reopened

17:16:10 <libby> propoose to approve the minutes ammended to say 4.3 is reopened

17:16:38 <libby> jim: shoudl we reopen given jonathan's objections

17:16:51 <DanC> jimh, my rationale for closing pretty clearly didn't satisfy JonB, which is new info, hence we reopened it.

17:16:58 <libby> jonathan - hoped that would be a minor change to rdf datatypes, noone seeme interested

17:17:16 <libby> jeremy: thinks rdf core is done in daatypeing

17:17:36 <libby> danc: actioned to write up for jinathan cos not happy: still not happy so reopened

17:17:42 <libby> jim: let's leavbe it open for now

17:17:51 <DanC> my action was because JonB wasn't there.

17:18:00 <FvH> Frank van Harmelen joining late, apologies.

17:18:10 <libby> chrisW: impression from f2f that only Jonathan is interested in this issue.

17:18:26 <libby> danc: jonathan hasn't had a chance to put his case

17:18:32 <Massimo> plus some people weren't at the meeting... ;)

17:19:03 <libby> jim: we need someone to writeup -'I propose we do this to it' - will you accept the acction?

17:19:03 <Zakim> -Leo

17:19:19 <libby> johnathan: yes, though pps has wriitten a paper on xml schema datatypes etc

17:19:29 <libby> jim: will you take the action?

17:19:34 <libby> jonathan: yes

17:19:36 * DanC notes discussion of the issue isn't in order here, but oh well, we seem to be getting work done.

17:20:02 <libby> action jonathan: write up what an alternative might be to postponing

17:20:03 * RRSAgent records action 1

17:20:05 <DanC> minutes approved. RESOLVED.

17:20:07 <Zakim> +??P28

17:20:17 <DanC> Zakim, ??P28 is Guus

17:20:18 <Zakim> +Guus; got it

17:20:20 <libby> ---telecon schedule

17:20:25 <DanC> [note: WG enumeration missed Guus]

17:20:41 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet one week hence

17:21:15 <libby> action jim to check lynn is scribe for next week

17:21:19 <jhendler> ACTION: Hendler, remind Thompson re: scribing

17:21:20 * RRSAgent records action 2

17:21:30 <libby> 1.6 Upcoming ftf meetings

17:21:39 <libby> guus action - ongoing

17:21:45 <Zakim> +Leo

17:22:00 * Massimo delayed because of the mute, not because of the thinking ;)

17:22:00 <libby> danC's action is changed to massimo

17:22:08 <DanC> # ADMIN: remote access Manchester ftf Guus Schreiber (Thu, Oct 31 2002) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0304.html

17:22:13 <DanC> ^progress on Guus's ftf action

17:22:21 <libby> action massimo to put up a regoistration page

17:22:28 <libby> ian's action done??

17:22:41 <libby> sorry jim

17:22:55 <DanC> local arrangements page: http://wonderweb.semanticweb.org/mcr-f2f.shtml]

17:23:14 <libby> ---agenda item 2

17:23:24 <libby> 2) ACTION ITEM REVIEW (10 min)

17:23:42 * foo

17:24:09 <libby> Issue 5.21 "Drop disjointUnionOf"

17:24:22 <libby> action completed

17:24:24 <DanC> action done.

17:24:53 <libby> Issue 5.5 List syntax or semantics

17:24:59 <DanC> so we're disucssing 5.5?

17:25:31 <libby> er, I'm going down the list

17:25:45 <DeborahMc> i just confirmed, the feature document does not have disjointUnionOf

17:26:15 <libby> danC: let's discuss the issue when we discuss the action - I don;t want to drop the discussion in coordination group

17:26:45 <libby> jim: is there anything that needs attention on 5.5?

17:26:55 <libby> danc: patH not here

17:27:09 <libby> PPS: ongoing debate about the relationshiop with RDF

17:27:20 <ChrisW> someone with a barking dog should mute themselves...

17:27:24 <libby> jim: there's an open issue wrt this issue and RDF

17:27:54 <libby> ...5.5 is open - discussion of this and RDF generally is not ruled out of scope

17:28:04 <libby> jjc is probably issue owner for 5.5

17:28:17 <libby> jjc thinks no point discussing without patH here

17:28:34 <libby> danC - leave the action as is for now

17:29:03 <libby> ...we won';t forget to deal with this!

17:29:08 * ChrisW has heard Pat use stronger language when talking about air

17:29:09 * Massimo remembers "crock of @%^#!" said by Pat as the strongest language....... ;)

17:29:46 * JosD air ???

17:29:49 <libby> action remains open

17:30:03 <Zakim> +PatH

17:30:15 <DanC> jim, what about the action on UML?

17:30:19 <jjc> (but its rdf:rest pointer points to the head of the list and we will discuss it forever)

17:30:24 <libby> jim: 4.4 is pending for closure; jim is issue owner, would liek to postpone

17:30:25 * DanC hears a breather

17:30:29 <DanC> Zakim, who's talking?

17:30:41 <Zakim> DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeremy (9%), +31.20.444.aaaa (55%), Hendler (29%), JosD (10%)

17:30:56 <libby> jim: it looks like specific cases that have been proposed can be handled by RDF

17:31:02 <libby> ...open for discussion

17:31:34 * ChrisW notes that wasn't me you were talking to

17:31:35 <libby> ...we jumped over actions associated with agenda items - discuss the later

17:31:44 <DanC> Zakim, mute aaaa

17:31:45 <Zakim> +31.20.444.aaaa should now be muted

17:31:55 <libby> Issue 4.4 extra-logical feature set

17:32:42 <libby> ? isn;t versioning 'extra-logical'?

17:33:04 <libby> jim: extra-logical features other than versioning and imports

17:33:14 <libby> DanC - seconded as amended

17:33:15 <ChrisW> I think it was Evan Wallace talking

17:33:22 <Zakim> -Pfps

17:33:27 <libby> jim: any objections?

17:33:29 <libby> [none]

17:33:46 <libby> issue 4.4 resolved by consensus as amended

17:33:47 <Zakim> +??P1

17:33:56 <libby> Issue 5.7 Range restrictions should not be separate URIs

17:34:05 <pfps> Zakim, ??P1 is pfps

17:34:06 <Zakim> +Pfps; got it

17:34:31 <libby> jim had an action to check with Ziv about postponement; ziv can live with postponement though thinks important engineering issue

17:34:42 <libby> proposed - postponent, seconded by ?

17:34:50 <libby> jjc abstains

17:35:19 <libby> issue 5.7 resolved to postpone it

17:35:24 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?

17:35:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Libby, Tim_Finin, Jeremy, ??P35, Mike_Dean, DanC, ??P39, M_Smith, ??P43, Hendler, Hori, JosD, Massimo (muted), Marwan_Sabbouh, Deborah_McGuinness,

17:35:27 <Zakim> ... +31.20.444.aaaa (muted), Sharon, JonB, Guus, Leo, PatH, Pfps

17:35:27 <libby> sorry, mangeled

17:35:37 <libby> resolved to postpone issue 5.7

17:35:45 <DanC> yes, 5.13 has specific proposals, jim

17:35:57 <libby> 3.1 - ISSUES PENDING CLOSURE PROPOSALS (~ 30 min total)

17:36:22 <libby> jim: do we have a consensus, an issue that needsmore discssion...

17:36:24 <Zakim> +HermanT

17:36:30 <libby> Issue 5.13 Internet Media Type for OWL

17:36:32 <DanC> most recent summary of proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0287.html

17:36:43 <libby> danC, pps, jimH have been discssing this

17:36:48 <jhendler> zakim, sharon is welty

17:36:49 <Zakim> +Welty; got it

17:37:07 <schreiber> zakim, whi is here?

17:37:08 <Zakim> sorry, schreiber, I do not understand your question

17:37:11 <libby> danc: summary - app/rdf right answer from f2f action writeup; then not sure after johnathan critique

17:37:25 <schreiber> zakim, who is here?

17:37:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see Libby, Tim_Finin, Jeremy, ??P35, Mike_Dean, DanC, ??P39, M_Smith, ??P43, Hendler, Hori, JosD, Massimo (muted), Marwan_Sabbouh, Deborah_McGuinness,

17:37:28 <Zakim> ... +31.20.444.aaaa (muted), Welty, JonB, Guus, Leo, PatH, Pfps, HermanT

17:37:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisW, jjc, schreiber, FvH, DeborahMc, pfps, Massimo, mdean, JosD, jhendler, libby, RRSAgent, Zakim, DanC, logger, las

17:37:34 <DanC>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/20

17:37:40 <libby> danc: thinks all 3 types can be offered to teh world

17:37:56 <libby> ...the message refered to gives reasons for each

17:38:20 <libby> ....could put this in the w draft and leave issue open, or close it woth this proposal

17:38:45 <libby> jonathan: abjects to app/xml, because frag id syntax depends on the media type - app/xml won;t allow us to get the ids

17:39:01 <libby> danc: yes; we could say this explicitly; but still an xml doc

17:39:23 <libby> danc: ok, if you just want people to look at it, app/xml, not if owl meaning of the document

17:39:36 <libby> jim: need someone to have that turned into a real mime type

17:39:55 <libby> jonathan: app/owl seems fairly compelling

17:40:22 <libby> danc: specify everything into the refernce documet, and then copy into an internet-draft - so need MikeD to assent to this

17:40:36 <libby> MikeD: how much does this add to the ref doc?

17:40:41 <libby> danC - 1.3 pages

17:40:41 <Massimo> q+

17:40:42 * Zakim sees Massimo on the speaker queue

17:40:50 <libby> mikeD can have a go

17:41:08 <libby> ?? can also help [scribe did recognise voice soirry]

17:41:17 <jhendler> Jonathan B.

17:41:21 <schreiber> zakim, +31.20.444.aaaa is FrankH

17:41:23 <Zakim> +FrankH; got it

17:41:46 <libby> massimo: expect different behaviours with differnt mime types?

17:42:10 <libby> danc: yes nvtu we dont know what thery are yet, and we dont; need to specify it any further, is DanC's proposal

17:42:23 <libby> ...we don;t formalise the notion of owl-processor

17:42:41 <Massimo> q-

17:42:42 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue

17:42:48 <libby> danc: proposal includes an action on jonathan...we need to decide the proposal?

17:43:18 <libby> danC: my proposal is to close teh issue with those 3 alternative mimetypes

17:43:37 <libby> patH: lots of differnt options....

17:44:12 <libby> danC: msg 0287

17:45:49 <libby>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2002Oct/0287.html

17:46:38 <libby> patH: finds it a bit odd. if I'm asserting it, I give it rdf or owl - can I assert the RDF part and nopt the owl part?

17:46:51 <libby> danc: proposal is to see what happens.

17:47:53 <libby> jim: proposal to close the issue owl mime type, using the wording in 0287, with editorial discression. Chair uncomfortable doign this unless someone actioned to prepare something for ietf; jonathan B has agreed to do this

17:48:24 <libby> massimo - need to define what 'assertign a document' means

17:48:56 <libby> danC: will it do for now? - we can reopen the issue if necessary

17:49:14 <libby> jjc: ?? might eb a good forum for this.....[didnt catch where]

17:49:51 <libby> patH: dont think para on assrying will do...daml encodings for queries like DQL: not asserting but querying

17:50:16 <libby> johnathan: when app/xml used, no semantics identified; app/rdf semanics are as of RDF MT....

17:50:29 <jjc> q+

17:50:30 * Zakim sees Jjc on the speaker queue

17:50:32 <libby> danc: rdf media types works event for owl

17:50:51 <libby> patH: remove after th i.e...

17:50:54 <FvH> +fvH

17:50:56 * Zakim wonders where fvH is

17:51:19 <schreiber> sorry, have to leave for 20 min for family reasons

17:51:31 <libby> remove: [[ÿi.e. to accept responsibility for it as if you ÿhad translated it to natural language ÿsaid/asserted the result]]

17:51:33 <Zakim> -Guus

17:52:00 <libby> jjc: aaron's doc '_may_ be aserted' rather than would be asserted...

17:52:10 <libby> danc: happy with some word wrangling....

17:52:32 <libby> patH; thought abouit how to tell app how to process things

17:52:53 <libby> ...in which case media type and asserion have nothign to do with each other...

17:53:01 <FvH> Frank would like to be on the speaker Q but forgothow to do it

17:53:20 <libby> jjc: lots to do with each over - say order somethign that costs 300 bucks...

17:53:33 <libby> danc: where bits and social protocol meet

17:54:07 <libby> danc: e.g. app/octet-stream, dont; take any respoinsibliity for it's readable content

17:54:34 <libby> patH - but there could be anything written in an html page abouit the irish - how would that differ?

17:54:35 <Zakim> -FrankH

17:54:45 <libby> jonathanB: text/anything means that people can read it

17:55:04 <FvH> Frank dropped of the phone, will try to dial back in

17:55:10 <libby> patH: but what they make of it is not mentioneed

17:55:21 <libby> pat: think could cause troubble later

17:55:31 <libby> danc: we have to do something

17:55:42 <libby> patH: mime-type ok; but no aserting....

17:56:02 <libby> jonathan: how about we write it up and then you can critique it

17:56:47 <libby> jim: stawpoll danc's suggestion with the amenment after i.e. statemnet removed - who is in favour

17:57:07 <libby> is scribve supposed to write this down?

17:57:33 <libby> cool

17:58:03 <Zakim> +FrankH

17:58:44 <libby> jim: suggests we action jonathan to write text, starting from what danc wrote; not vote today

17:58:59 <libby> action jonathan to write proposed document text

17:59:03 <libby> issue is open

17:59:50 <libby> patH: wider audience?

18:00:02 <libby> danc: put it in the WD without closing the issue?

18:00:14 <libby> patH: very worried about this

18:00:48 <libby> jim: is uncomfortable calling issue now: next week

18:01:08 <libby> Issue 5.14 - Ontology versioning

18:01:34 <DanC> the action on Hayes was withdrawn

18:01:38 <libby> jim: the current status: jeff proposed something, but there wee

18:01:48 <ChrisW> what version of the version document are we on?

18:01:52 <libby> there were no action items assigned. jeff owns the issue

18:02:17 <libby> jeff is focusing on [something else] at the moment

18:02:34 <libby> action on hayes is withdrawn

18:02:39 <ChrisW> [imports]

18:02:44 <libby> thanks

18:02:46 <libby> Issue 5.18 support for unique names assumption

18:03:24 <DanC> jim, I think this proposal is mature; noone has spoken against it. Let's close it.

18:03:30 <libby> jim: the differnt than construct enables you to do his, although bulky. could have a langauge feature, or could get it into the model theory etc.

18:03:49 <libby> jim: doesnt see anyone in favour of the second.

18:04:18 <libby> ..suggests either say: pospone or close with different than.

18:04:47 <libby> patH: suggestion: all the things in this list are equal to each other - n rather than n squared. thinks that people will need this

18:05:02 <libby> 'no-repeat list' ??

18:05:15 <libby> danC: proposal appeals to me

18:05:32 <libby> jjc: could one of have this semantics?

18:05:52 <libby> patH: problem - a class with a side effect of an assertion

18:05:58 <libby> [people don;t like this]

18:06:25 <libby> jos has proposed a namespace version - has a working implementation

18:06:40 <mdean> q+

18:06:41 * Zakim sees Jjc, Mdean on the speaker queue

18:07:20 <libby> jos sent a message before f2f4 - declaring unique names within a document.

18:07:34 <libby> jos withdraws his proposal for now

18:08:05 <libby> mikeD: had a little concern about using list structure; a lot of graph walking, and odd walking

18:08:29 <libby> jos: has done the implementation with one inference rule to derrive things on the fly

18:08:47 <libby> miked: for forward chaining ok; but if just walking graphs, may e a problem

18:09:05 <FvH> q+

18:09:08 * Zakim sees Jjc, Mdean, FvH on the speaker queue

18:09:11 <libby> ...multiple disjoint is easier from that point of view

18:09:22 <libby> jim: we will still have diffrernt from

18:09:46 * Massimo notes multiple disjoint would not be UNA-bulletproof any more... (you could add triples...)

18:09:52 <libby> ...from f2f, a lot of people wanted to do this, but niot sure how. so say: we all endorse different than and then say you can build on that.

18:10:23 <libby> frank: but people need this so badly that people will just invent different stuff - so maybe we shoudl do it rather than them...

18:10:40 <libby> danC: if people want it bad enough to experiment, than that is ideal!

18:10:51 <libby> frank: conjunction then is the same..

18:11:16 <libby> danc: but the code is tested for 18 months fo r conjunction, not for this

18:11:39 <libby> jos: thinks starting from different from is not a bad idea

18:12:23 <jjc> q+

18:12:24 * Zakim sees Jjc, Mdean, FvH on the speaker queue

18:12:26 <libby> jim: frank, postponing this issue we say, prwesentation syntax whatever you like but have different from underneath

18:12:48 <libby> chrisW: didnt we do this for another issue?

18:12:52 <Zakim> +??P32

18:12:57 <FvH> q-

18:12:59 * Zakim sees Jjc, Mdean on the speaker queue

18:13:11 <jhendler> ack

18:13:18 <jhendler> zakim, ack

18:13:19 <libby> patH: worries that people will all come up with different things if you let them experiment. the list thing is a small design decision.

18:13:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ack', jhendler

18:13:30 <libby> frank thanks that namespace is too ambitious

18:13:30 <mdean> would it work to introduce a transitive differentIndividualFrom and allow pairwise assertions among a set?

18:13:34 <libby> [agreemnt]

18:13:39 <jjc> ack

18:13:53 <libby> pps: doesnt liek the name

18:13:56 <jjc> q-

18:13:57 * Zakim sees Mdean on the speaker queue

18:14:03 <libby> ...'disjoint' 'different'

18:14:18 <libby> ...no 'list'

18:14:23 <libby> 'all different'

18:14:27 <libby> 'distinct'

18:15:02 <libby> jim: the argument to this list is uris

18:15:16 <libby> [scribe has to leave shortly, will some one take over?]

18:15:23 <schreiber> zakim, ??P32 is Guus

18:15:24 <Zakim> +Guus; got it

18:15:31 <libby> jim: will soem one take action to write this up (5.18)?

18:15:39 <libby> danC: can do this one

18:15:45 <ChrisW> I can scribe from here

18:15:52 <libby> ACTION: DanC to write up the 'all different' prposal

18:15:54 * RRSAgent records action 3

18:15:58 <libby> thansk ChrisW

18:16:01 <ChrisW> (tell me when to start)

18:16:10 <libby> I'll sort it all out from teh minutes later

18:16:15 <libby> now?

18:16:17 <libby> :)

18:16:18 <ChrisW> OK

18:16:22 <libby> thanks

18:16:41 <libby> bye all

18:16:53 <Zakim> -Libby

18:16:57 <ChrisW> two issues left

18:17:23 <ChrisW> Jim proposes postponing to next week

18:17:38 <ChrisW> Deb won't be here next week, so discussing HasValue

18:18:05 <ChrisW> crap

18:18:29 <Zakim> -Leo

18:18:32 <ChrisW> dogs howling at the proposal...

18:18:56 <ChrisW> Deb proposes retracting the proposal to add hasvalue, although users are "crying" forit

18:19:39 <ChrisW> JosD: which of the several ways of dealing with it are we talking about?

18:19:59 <ChrisW> Jim: What causes the problem?

18:21:24 <ChrisW> jjc: consider reducing the semantics for OWL lite such that hasvalue is only sufficient

18:22:42 <ChrisW> Jim: believes a lot of people need it as the only extension to OWL Lite

18:22:55 <ChrisW> Deb: retracts proposal to retract

18:24:19 <ChrisW> action jjc to write up proposal for "reduced semantics in OWL Lite"

18:25:31 <ChrisW> resolution of issue postponed to next issue

18:26:15 * JosD was in real favor...

18:26:31 <Zakim> -JonB

18:26:54 <ChrisW> MikeS: Guide is near complete, a lot of work gone in

18:27:08 <ChrisW> waiting for CHrisW to have time to type up comments

18:27:38 <ChrisW> Expecting release COB Monday

18:27:57 * JosD in the direction { ?R owl:onProperty ?p . ?R owl:hasValue ?y . ?x ?p ?y } +> { ?x a ?R }

18:28:34 <ChrisW> DanC notes that at F2F decided to publish document with editorial discretion of Mike and Chris

18:29:08 * ChrisW notes he keeps getting disconnected

18:29:32 * DanC can't find draft from Mike of Monday; must have been my imagination

18:29:51 <ChrisW> MikeS will send out latest Guide version today

18:30:08 <DanC> ACTION MikeS: send Guide draft today

18:30:09 * RRSAgent records action 4

18:30:58 <ChrisW> Discussion of names - use OWL/Full, OWL/Lite, OWL/DL for now

18:31:06 * jjc bye

18:31:34 <ChrisW> Dan proposed resolving the names issue now

18:31:44 <Zakim> -Jeremy

18:32:14 <DanC> I prefer without the slashes: "OWL Full, OWL Lite, OWL DL".

18:32:20 <DanC> but I can accept the slashes

18:32:29 <ChrisW> ACTION jjc: propose "reduced semantics" for hasValue in OWL Lite

18:32:30 * RRSAgent records action 5

18:32:37 <ChrisW> (tnx Dan)

18:32:39 * jhendler agrees with DanC

18:32:43 <Zakim> -??P35

18:33:03 <ChrisW> zakim, who is here?

18:33:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tim_Finin, Mike_Dean, DanC, ??P39, M_Smith, ??P43, Hendler, Hori, JosD, Massimo, Marwan_Sabbouh, Deborah_McGuinness, Welty, PatH, Pfps, HermanT, FrankH, Guus

18:33:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisW, schreiber, FvH, DeborahMc, pfps, Massimo, mdean, JosD, jhendler, RRSAgent, Zakim, DanC, logger, las

18:33:18 <ChrisW> extended teleconference approved

18:33:45 <ChrisW> FvH summarizes email received

18:33:59 <ChrisW> OWL Full, OWL Lite mostly un-contentious

18:34:22 * Massimo reiterate his proposal of "Owl fat" :)

18:34:25 <ChrisW> except of course from Pat

18:35:18 <ChrisW> FvH notes people felt OWL DL was too "techy"

18:35:34 * DanC woohoo!

18:35:36 <ChrisW> Straw poll on OWL DL, OWL Full, OWL Lite

18:35:41 <ChrisW> no objections

18:35:50 <ChrisW> Dan, help on putting this in right

18:36:23 <DanC> RESOLVED: to use OWL DL, OWL Full, OWL Lite, by consensus. abstaining: PeterPS, PatH, Massimo, [?]

18:36:26 <ChrisW> 4 abstentions - pfps, pat, herman, massimo

18:37:05 <ChrisW> Dan wants to clear up things editors are waiting for

18:37:10 <DeborahMc> Web Ontology Language (OWL Lite and OWL): <br />

18:37:10 <DeborahMc> Feature Synopsis Version 1.0

18:37:13 <schreiber> q+

18:37:15 * Zakim sees Mdean, Schreiber on the speaker queue

18:37:46 <ChrisW> proposed title from DLM

18:38:15 <ChrisW> DLM waiting for language from Frank and Guus

18:38:40 <ChrisW> DLM notes the document does not talk about OWL DL

18:41:19 <FvH> q+

18:41:21 * Zakim sees Mdean, Schreiber, FvH on the speaker queue

18:41:27 <FvH> q-

18:41:29 * Zakim sees Mdean, Schreiber on the speaker queue

18:43:45 <Zakim> -Marwan_Sabbouh

18:44:25 <Zakim> -??P43

18:44:26 <Zakim> -Pfps

18:44:28 <Zakim> -M_Smith

18:44:28 <Zakim> -PatH

18:44:29 <Zakim> -Welty

18:44:29 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean

18:44:31 <Zakim> -Tim_Finin

18:44:32 <Zakim> -FrankH

18:44:33 <Zakim> -HermanT

18:44:34 <Zakim> -JosD

18:58:36 <Zakim> -Deborah_McGuinness

19:04:40 <Zakim> -Hendler

19:04:41 <Zakim> -Guus

19:04:57 <Zakim> -Hori

19:05:01 <Zakim> -DanC

19:05:38 <Zakim> -Massimo