W3C Web Ontology Working Group IRC Chat Logs for 2003-04-03

15:00:01 Users on #webont: logger @DanC

15:13:29 * RRSAgent is logging

15:13:41 <DanC> Zakim, this will be WEBO

15:13:41 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, DanC

15:29:10 <jjc> Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:29:11 <Zakim> sorry, jjc, I don't know what conference this is

15:29:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see jjc, Zakim, RRSAgent, logger, DanC

15:29:21 <jjc> Zakim, what's the time?

15:29:21 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, jjc.

15:29:51 <DanC> conference starts in 90min, jjc

15:29:59 <DanC> Zakim, this will be WEBO

15:29:59 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, DanC

15:30:07 <jjc> logger, pointer

15:30:07 <jjc> See http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/webont/2003-04-03#T15-30-07

16:59:55 <jjc> Zakim, this is webo

16:59:55 <Zakim> ok, jjc

17:00:04 <jjc> Zakim, who's on the call?

17:00:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, ??P10, [EDS]

17:00:08 <Zakim> +Tim_Finin

17:00:16 <jjc> Zakim, who's on the call?

17:00:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, ??P10 (muted), [EDS], Tim_Finin

17:00:18 <Zakim> +[UMD]

17:00:25 <jjc> Zakim, ?P10 is jjc

17:00:25 <Zakim> sorry, jjc, I do not recognize a party named '?P10'

17:00:26 * DanC Zakim, call DanC-BOS

17:00:26 * Zakim ok, DanC; the call is being made

17:00:27 <Zakim> +DanC

17:00:30 <jjc> Zakim, ??P10 is jjc

17:00:30 <Zakim> +jjc; got it

17:00:51 <Zakim> +??P16

17:01:00 <Zakim> + +1.801.756.aaaa

17:01:04 <jhendler> zakim, who is here?

17:01:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, jjc, [EDS], Tim_Finin, [UMD], DanC, ??P16, +1.801.756.aaaa

17:01:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see jhendler, timfinin, jjc, Zakim, RRSAgent, logger, DanC

17:01:13 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: 3Apr http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/. chair: JimH. scribe: ?

17:01:14 <jhendler> zakim, [umd] is jimH

17:01:15 <Zakim> +jimH; got it

17:01:18 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean

17:01:30 <jjc> Zakim, ??P16 is herman

17:01:30 <Zakim> +herman; got it

17:01:31 <Zakim> +??P33

17:01:43 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: 3Apr http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/. chair: JimH. scribe: JeremyC

17:01:50 <jjc> Zakim, Tim_Finin is heflin

17:01:51 <Zakim> +heflin; got it

17:02:03 <jjc> Zakim, who's on the call?

17:02:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, jjc, [EDS], heflin, jimH, DanC, herman, +1.801.756.aaaa, Mike_Dean, ??P33

17:02:24 <jjc> Zakim, aaaa is pfps

17:02:24 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

17:02:28 <jjc> Zakim, who's on the call?

17:02:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, jjc, [EDS], heflin, jimH, DanC, herman, pfps, Mike_Dean, ??P33

17:02:30 <DanC> Zakim, where is 801?

17:02:30 <Zakim> North American dialing code 1.801 is Utah

17:03:13 <jjc> Zakim, help

17:03:13 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.

17:03:15 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:

17:03:16 <Zakim> xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx

17:03:18 <Zakim> if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted

17:03:20 <Zakim> xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx

17:03:22 <Zakim> I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx

17:03:24 <Zakim> xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group

17:03:26 <Zakim> xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx

17:03:28 <Zakim> who's here? - lists the participants on the phone

17:03:30 <Zakim> who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted

17:03:32 <Zakim> mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)

17:03:34 <Zakim> unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#

17:03:36 <Zakim> is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present

17:03:38 <Zakim> list conferences - reports the active conferences

17:03:39 <Zakim> this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx

17:03:40 <Zakim> excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel

17:03:41 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2003/03/30 15:50:42 $

17:03:53 <jjc> jjc is now known as jjcscribe

17:04:03 * DanC q?

17:04:03 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue

17:04:12 * DanC q?

17:04:12 * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue

17:04:40 <jjcscribe> Zakim, who's on the call?

17:04:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, jjc, [EDS], heflin, jimH, DanC, herman, pfps, Mike_Dean, ??P33

17:04:50 <Zakim> +Leo

17:05:03 <jhendler> zakim, ?p33 is McGuinness

17:05:03 <Zakim> sorry, jhendler, I do not recognize a party named '?p33'

17:05:24 <jjcscribe> Zakim, [eds] is Mike_Smith

17:05:24 <Zakim> +Mike_Smith; got it

17:05:52 <Zakim> +Ian_Horrocks

17:05:55 <jjcscribe> Zakim, ??P4 is finin

17:05:55 <Zakim> +finin; got it

17:06:14 <jjcscribe> Zakim, who's on the call?

17:06:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see finin, jjc, Mike_Smith, heflin, jimH, DanC, herman, pfps, Mike_Dean, ??P33, Leo, Ian_Horrocks

17:06:24 <jjcscribe> Zakim, ??P33 is McGuiness

17:06:24 <Zakim> +McGuiness; got it

17:06:27 <jjcscribe> Zakim, who's on the call?

17:06:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see finin, jjc, Mike_Smith, heflin, jimH, DanC, herman, pfps, Mike_Dean, McGuiness, Leo, Ian_Horrocks

17:06:45 <jjcscribe> regrets in e-mail log

17:07:34 <jjcscribe> Minutes accepted, with amendment.

17:07:51 <jjcscribe>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0273.html

17:08:25 <jjcscribe>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Mar/0276.html

17:08:48 <jjcscribe> No agenda amendments.

17:09:00 <jjcscribe> 1.4 Next telecon

17:09:16 <jjcscribe> conflicts with DAML meeting, but telecon going ahead anyway

17:09:26 <jjcscribe> 1.5 Last Call announcement and distribution update

17:10:03 <jjcscribe> See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Apr/0002.html

17:10:17 <jjcscribe> Sent to DAML lists, seweb, ontoweb

17:10:25 <jjcscribe> Sent to omg, fipa

17:10:31 <jjcscribe> (fipa??)

17:11:23 <jjcscribe> (i.e. maybe it wasn't sent to fipa)

17:12:08 <jjcscribe> Announcements should assume that people have already been revieiwing WDs

17:12:22 <jjcscribe> continue ACTION Danc on I18N

17:13:50 <jjcscribe> ACTION: Patel-Schneider to work on proof for issue 5.26 B1,B2

17:13:50 * RRSAgent records action 1

17:13:50 <jjcscribe> Patel-Schneider to work on proof for issue 5.26 B1,B2

17:13:50 <jjcscribe> ACTION Patel-Schneider B.1 B.2 - by 17th April

17:14:10 <jjcscribe> Heflin action continued

17:15:26 <jjcscribe> ACTION connolly look into redirects to fix semantic linking problem

17:16:57 <DanC> (there's an epsilon (<24hrs) after the spec is publised in /TR/ when we can fix little problems. that epsilon has passed. I think a redirect is still feasible.)

17:17:34 <jjcscribe> 2.0 Discussion of Last Call Comment Handling

17:17:34 <jjcscribe> 2.0 Discussion of Last Call Comment Handling

17:17:34 <jjcscribe> 2.0 Discussion of Last Call Comment Handling

17:17:34 <jjcscribe> 2. Discussion of LC Comment Handling

17:17:59 <jjcscribe> Hendler is about to send a memo

17:18:09 <jjcscribe> after telecon.

17:18:48 <jjcscribe> jimh: there are now strict process rules about making changes

17:18:59 * DanC q+ to explain why the process malarky is worthwhile

17:18:59 * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue

17:19:22 <jjcscribe> jimh: take care that public comments list is not place for discussion of issues

17:19:39 <jjcscribe> jimh: discussion should take place on wg list or public list

17:21:27 <jjcscribe> danc: discussion between authorized representatives of the WG and commentors should take place on comments list

17:21:58 <jjcscribe> jimh: do not refer to commentators as idiots on webont list

17:22:20 * DanC thinks... re polite... "there is no try. only do."

17:22:31 <jjcscribe> jimh: at least one editor of each doc should be reading the public comments list

17:22:52 <jjcscribe> jimh: when comment on single doc arrives

17:23:12 <jjcscribe> editor can: (a) explain how the issue is already addressed by document(s)

17:23:32 <jjcscribe> answer goes to commentator and public comments list

17:23:43 <jjcscribe> This is for issues that do not change document

17:24:08 <DanC> (I think it works better if [closed] goes at the end of the subject line, but I've only tested [closed] at the beginning)

17:24:13 <DanC> s/works/looks/

17:24:16 <jjcscribe> Once the commentator agrees that the issue has been addressed, we send a msg with [closed] at the beginining

17:25:25 <jjcscribe> Case (b) requires an editorial change to the document without WG discussion

17:26:03 <jjcscribe> then the editor asks the chair to confirm this is an editorial fix and we are in case (a) more or less

17:26:20 <jjcscribe> Case (c) is when the issue is substantive which may effect other documents

17:26:31 <jjcscribe> or test cases then

17:27:10 <jjcscribe> the editor asks the chairs to add the issue to a WG agenda

17:27:43 <jjcscribe> pfps understanding (start)

17:27:56 <jjcscribe> pfps: if some changes to the wording without changing meaning

17:28:11 <jjcscribe> pfps: sends msg to the WG suggesting this change

17:28:40 <jjcscribe> pfps: if change required is a change to the meaning then

17:28:48 <jjcscribe> pfps: more discussion is needed

17:29:57 <jjcscribe> pfps: distinction is any fool would do it this way or not

17:30:08 <jjcscribe> danc: is it observable in tests or code

17:30:26 <jjcscribe> end pfps monologue

17:31:09 <jjcscribe> danc: please add difference lists in an appendix

17:31:27 <jjcscribe> danc: if we want to change any bytes we have to detail our diffs

17:31:46 <jjcscribe> mike_smith: a change log since last release

17:32:46 <jjcscribe> danc: maybe two lists bigger changes and minor changes

17:33:56 <jjcscribe> discussion of spelling corrections typos etc

17:35:23 <jjcscribe> danc: If any bytes change then a msg must come to the WG

17:35:56 <jjcscribe> jimh: if many documents then leave it alone or put something to the WG

17:37:07 <jjcscribe> danc: if the reply can be of the form "does this section of the spec answer your question?"

17:37:15 <jjcscribe> danc: then do it, if not don't

17:38:00 <jjcscribe> jimh: chairs might reply

17:38:29 <jjcscribe> jimh: chairs might fix and close issues without any bytes changing

17:39:46 <jjcscribe> danc asked mcguiness are you well-equipped to handle comments?

17:39:51 <jjcscribe> mcguiness: yes

17:39:59 <jjcscribe> mike-smith: yes

17:40:03 <jjcscribe> mike-dean: yes

17:42:23 <DanC> webreq@w3.org cc connolly@w3.org

17:42:33 <jjcscribe>http://www.w3.org/2002/12/open-issues?ml=public-webont-comments&range=1&realm=Public

17:42:39 <jjcscribe> Danc presents issue tracker

17:43:06 <jjcscribe> For now mailing list URIs are the issue identifiers

17:46:07 <jjcscribe> danc makes case for process

17:47:09 <jjcscribe> jimh: connolly will be enforcer

17:48:31 <jjcscribe> pfps: editors drafts

17:48:58 <jjcscribe> danc: we want review of last call documents, not an editors draft

17:50:08 <jjcscribe> danc: we can have editors drafts if we take appropriate care

17:51:05 <jjcscribe> discussion of whetehr WG webpage points to editors draft

17:51:50 <jjcscribe> mcguiness I would like reviewers to see editors draft

17:51:56 <jjcscribe> danc: no the right doc is the LC draft

17:52:10 <jjcscribe> mike_smith: guide

17:52:30 <jjcscribe> (no issue)

17:53:10 <jjcscribe> jjc: test cases is an exception

17:53:48 <jjcscribe> pfps: there is a risk with any link from the homepage

17:54:24 <jjcscribe> mike_smith: the editors draft should say on second line beneath title - don't read this, read the LC

17:56:36 <jjcscribe> Discussion of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/

17:57:53 <jjcscribe> ACTION: all-editors Add second line to editors draft.

17:57:53 * RRSAgent records action 2

17:58:07 * DanC hates "all-editors" actions; considers that 5 actions

17:58:18 <jjcscribe> Yes I will exapnd in the minutes

17:59:14 <jjcscribe> Early comments should be resent

17:59:37 <DanC> in a pinch, it's OK for WG memebers to forward outstanding comments on behalf of commentors

18:02:19 <jjcscribe> DanC: WG should sent comments to the WG list not the comment list

18:02:42 <jjcscribe> JimH: we do want to hear of bugs from WG members

18:03:11 <jjcscribe> jimh: to WG list

18:03:44 <jjcscribe> 3.0 BRIEF Discussion of reworking of Guide for "cultural" issues

18:05:09 <jjcscribe> ACTION mike-smith use more of the food examples in the text, and fewer wine examples

18:05:48 <jjcscribe> s/fewer/to augment/

18:06:14 <jjcscribe> mcguiness: ontologies will not change

18:06:22 <jjcscribe> smith: replacements will be identical constructs

18:08:58 * DanC heard an action on JeffH to change firstname/lastname to email in requirements

18:09:24 <jjcscribe> action jeffh change firstname/lastname to email in requirements

18:09:30 <jjcscribe> Adjourned

18:10:12 <Zakim> -Mike_Smith

18:10:15 <Zakim> -finin

18:10:15 <Zakim> -heflin

18:10:16 <Zakim> -pfps

18:10:17 <Zakim> -Leo

18:10:17 <Zakim> -jjc

18:10:20 <Zakim> -jimH

18:10:21 <Zakim> -Ian_Horrocks

18:10:25 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean

18:10:27 <Zakim> -DanC

18:10:28 <Zakim> -herman

18:10:29 <Zakim> -McGuiness

18:10:30 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended