W3C Web Ontology Working Group IRC Chat Logs for 2003-07-24

15:01:02 Users on #webont: logger @bijan

15:53:53 * RRSAgent is logging

15:54:00 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

15:54:00 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2003/07/24-webont-irc#T15-54-00

15:54:05 <sandro> logger, pointer?

15:54:05 <sandro> See http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/webont/2003-07-24#T15-54-05

15:54:16 <sandro> zakim, who is here?

15:54:16 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is

15:54:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro, logger, bijan

15:54:22 <sandro> zakim, this will be webont

15:54:22 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see SW_WebOnt()12:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

15:54:49 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has now started

15:54:56 <Zakim> +[UMD]

15:55:24 <bijan> zakim, [UMD] is bijan

15:55:24 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

15:58:53 <Zakim> +Sandro

16:00:50 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

16:01:47 <Zakim> +[EDS]

16:02:06 <sandro> zakim, [EDS] is Mike Smith

16:02:07 <Zakim> I don't understand '[EDS] is Mike Smith', sandro

16:02:13 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean

16:02:17 <sandro> zakim, [EDS] is Mike_Smith

16:02:18 <Zakim> +Mike_Smith; got it

16:02:23 <Zakim> +??P12

16:02:35 <Zakim> +Ian_Horrocks

16:02:38 <sandro> Zakim, ??P12 is PeterPS

16:02:39 <Zakim> +PeterPS; got it

16:02:54 <DanC-AIM> hi from YVR. Boarding in a few minutes.

16:03:07 <Zakim> +HermanT

16:03:11 <Zakim> +??P0

16:03:21 <jjc> Zakim, ??P0 is Jeremy.

16:03:21 <Zakim> +Jeremy.; got it

16:03:30 <pfps> Is that a real or VR (virtual reality) airport?

16:03:46 <jjc> Zakim, Jeremy. is Jeremy

16:03:46 <Zakim> +Jeremy; got it

16:03:55 <sandro> zakim, who is here?

16:03:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Mike_Smith, Mike_Dean, PeterPS, Ian_Horrocks, HermanT, Jeremy

16:03:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see IanH, pfps, jjc, DanC-AIM, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro, logger, bijan

16:04:06 <DanC-AIM> Seems real. :)

16:05:12 <sandro> Bernard, are you joining the call?

16:05:47 <berva> I'll try to, but not sure I can make it

16:05:48 <Zakim> +??P7

16:06:02 <sandro> zakim, ??P7 is JimH

16:06:02 <Zakim> +JimH; got it

16:06:32 <sandro> Resolved: minutes appoved

16:07:09 <sandro> No agenda amendments.

16:07:54 <Zakim> +[IBM]

16:08:10 <jjc>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0211.html

16:08:33 <ChrisW> zakim, who is here?

16:08:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Mike_Smith, Mike_Dean, PeterPS, Ian_Horrocks, HermanT, Jeremy, JimH (muted), [IBM]

16:08:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisW, berva, IanH, pfps, jjc, DanC-AIM, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro, logger, bijan

16:08:39 <sandro>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jul/0262.html

16:08:48 <ChrisW> zakim, [IBM] is temporarily ChrisW

16:08:48 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it

16:08:56 <berva> sandro: think I will just follow the IRC - can't get both IRC and phone call right now

16:08:58 <jjc> (agenda is 262)

16:09:51 <sandro> 3 actions on JJC done.

16:10:12 <sandro> DONE ---- ACTION MikeSmith change closing text to reflect iff => if

16:10:19 <DanC-AIM> Sandro, I suggest offering to review test. I'm not sure 'consistent document' is specified to be orthogonal to the state of the web yet, and I'd like to go over the details with you and jjc.

16:10:29 <sandro> DONE PFPS -- iff/if

16:10:40 <Zakim> +??P10

16:10:52 <sandro> zakim, ??P10 is CharlesWhite

16:10:52 <Zakim> +CharlesWhite; got it

16:12:25 <Zakim> -JimH

16:13:42 <Zakim> +??P7

16:14:02 <DanC-AIM> Which msg are folks using as the agenda to which there were "no ammendments"? 0211?

16:14:04 <JosD> Zakim, ??P7 is JosD

16:14:04 <Zakim> +JosD; got it

16:14:36 <ChrisW> according to jeremy, (agenda is 262)

16:17:56 <sandro> ACTION: Ian draft a response to Dave Reynolds, "clearly we'de like access to a full range of datatypes, as in XMLS..."

16:17:56 * RRSAgent records action 1

16:18:14 <DanC-AIM> (I gather the scribe isn't using irc... I'd appreciate a bit of color commentary, e.g. noting when starting an agendum. Jjc or somebody beside the chair, please?)

16:18:41 <sandro> ---- 3.2 bnode issues - B1 and B2 revisited (25 min; Jeremy Carroll)

16:19:57 <sandro> jjc: this is one of the harder parts to implement of abs syn

16:20:22 <sandro> scribe is Even Wallace, not on IRC.

16:20:50 <sandro> jjc: I beleive I have shown how this can work with corresp. proof.

16:21:43 <sandro> pfps: I was unconvinced by the original stab, and have not reviewed newer one.

16:22:23 <DanC-AIM> RRSAgent, pointer?

16:22:23 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2003/07/24-webont-irc#T16-22-23

16:22:42 <sandro> Jos; I'm convinced -- propose reopening.

16:23:16 <sandro> jjc: bad to re-open and NOT close

16:23:25 <DanC-AIM> High latency... Not sure I'm connected.

16:23:39 <sandro> jjc: Jim also meanted the "at risk" cheat.

16:24:27 <sandro> Jos: JJC, do you have impl experiance?

16:24:37 <sandro> jjc: it changes syntax to make it easier to implement

16:24:59 <sandro> pfps: I'm not conviced. I have a design that might be easier the current way.

16:25:14 <sandro> pfpfs: do we allow structure sharing in the RDF graph for OWL DL.

16:25:31 <sandro> pfps: issue just has not be explores.

16:26:01 <sandro> jjc: from dave reynolds - is there an example of how this is flawed

16:27:07 <sandro> (confusion as folks try to understand issue)

16:28:08 <sandro> ian: this new approach has not been shown to work.

16:28:29 <sandro> jjc: it's a very difficult space

16:32:16 <sandro> zakim, who is here?

16:32:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Mike_Smith, Mike_Dean, PeterPS, Ian_Horrocks, HermanT, Jeremy, ChrisW, CharlesWhite, JosD

16:32:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see JosD, chas, ChrisW, berva, IanH, pfps, jjc, DanC-AIM, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro, logger, bijan

16:32:48 <sandro> bijan: no

16:32:51 <sandro> evan: yes

16:32:54 <sandro> mike: no

16:32:58 <sandro> mike: abstain

16:33:07 <sandro> peter: no

16:33:12 <sandro> ian: no

16:33:17 <sandro> ht: abstain

16:33:18 <Zakim> +PatH

16:33:21 <sandro> jere: yes

16:33:24 <sandro> chris: no

16:33:59 <sandro> THIS IS STRAW POLL. NO NAMES MATTER.

16:34:57 <bijan> Trying to summarize: 1) currently, fewer graphs are legal DL (i.e., ones with structure sharing of a certain sort), 2) jeremey thinks that implementation (of parsers?) is harder than his proposal, 3) jeremey's proposal allows more graphs as DL

16:36:12 <bijan> Sounds like, assuming status quo is implemenatable at all, that Jeremey's proposal is (as far as we know) a perfectly neat future extention.

16:36:29 <sandro> zakim, who is here?

16:36:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Mike_Smith, Mike_Dean, PeterPS, Ian_Horrocks, HermanT, Jeremy, ChrisW, CharlesWhite, JosD, PatH

16:36:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see JosD, chas, ChrisW, berva, IanH, pfps, jjc, DanC-AIM, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro, logger, bijan

16:44:12 * bijan notes that UMD plans to attempt implementation of exactly what goes into CR

16:45:46 * bijan wonders if Ian was voting in Jim's voice,too

16:46:15 <sandro> Vote: on doing At Risk thing

16:46:18 <sandro> sandro: only abstain.

16:46:45 <sandro> action items:

16:46:45 * RRSAgent records action 2

16:47:10 <sandro> ACTION jjc: test cases which illustrate this boundary, for "At Risk" boundary.

16:47:10 * RRSAgent records action 3

16:47:23 <sandro> will try for tomorrow.

16:47:45 <sandro> ACTION pfps: review JJC b1 b1 proof

16:47:45 * RRSAgent records action 4

16:48:20 <sandro> ACTION: JimH change CR request accordingly

16:48:20 * RRSAgent records action 5

16:50:28 <sandro> ACTION: JimH to reply to Dave Reynolds on this

16:50:28 * RRSAgent records action 6

16:53:19 <sandro> 3. Review Document Changes since LC

16:54:25 <sandro>http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/guide-src/Guide.html#AppendixD

16:56:54 <sandro> upgrade RDF link

16:57:28 <sandro> jeremy wants to review the wine.owl and food.owl (by machine).

16:58:51 <sandro> GUIDE okay except for that review by JJC

17:00:30 <sandro>http://www.daml.org/2002/06/webont/owl-ref-proposed

17:02:14 <sandro> some issue over owl.owl file

17:02:18 <sandro> how recent

17:04:22 <Zakim> -CharlesWhite

17:10:54 <berva> Note : typo in label owl.owl#backwardCompatibleWith

17:25:36 <Zakim> -Mike_Smith

17:25:38 <Zakim> -ChrisW

17:25:39 <Zakim> -PatH

17:25:41 <Zakim> -JosD

17:25:42 <Zakim> -Jeremy

17:25:44 <Zakim> -Ian_Horrocks

17:25:45 <Zakim> -HermanT

17:26:13 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean

17:26:30 <Zakim> -PeterPS

17:26:42 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

17:26:43 <Zakim> -bijan

17:26:43 <Zakim> -Sandro

17:26:44 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended